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  #101  
Old 09.05.2007, 20:01
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I don't think that you need to be psychic to know that will happen at some point in the future given how many volcanoes are "overdue".
Hasn't Mt. Etna just gone up?
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  #102  
Old 09.05.2007, 20:37
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Hasn't Mt. Etna just gone up?
Small fry...there's one in Columbia that's brewing away quite nicely at the moment that'll make Etna look like someone smoking a cigarette
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  #103  
Old 09.05.2007, 22:19
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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This is again manipulating figures to make a point.
Who is manipulating figures to make which point? One of your problems is that you fail to see a discussion of facts for what they are, and can only interpret them politically. This displays a deep naivete on your part. A serious gap in your intellectual life.

After having read your stupid poll about why people should post pictures of themselves, and the fact that you have started up again on this thread, I've adblocked your frankly worrying picture. Because if that is you, and if you really do hold that expression in front of a camera ...

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Would you say that water was harmless? We need approx 2.5 litres water per day. What would happen if you tripled that intake? It might kill you.
Just what is your point? I think you fail to realise that you are not answering the question.

Not for the first time you are spouting utter drivel. It's a shame, because you can manage to put a grammatical sentence together. Assuming you are sincere and not trolling, I can only conclude that you are too arrogant - or worse, stupid - to realise that, every time you try to be quantitative, you come across as, at best ignorant, or worse, innumerate.

I know, I know: "Don't feed the Troll!" but I can't help it.

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The air has about 0.03% CO2 on average. It was at this level when it discovered in 1754, and is at the same level today.
Again, utter tripe. What are you talking about? By your "reasoning", the irrational number "pi" has been 3 ever since it was discovered. Although "pi" is nowhere near as irrational as you.

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Air with CO2 of 4.5% is a something like a 1000 fold increase - and even at that level CO2 won't kill you. So, yes it is harmless.
I agree that 4.5% CO2 won't kill you. But that is not to say it is not harmless. CO2 as an asphyxiant at 4.5% by volume, and its effects as a greenhouse gas at that level are not the same phenomena.

You are demonstrating again your profound ignorance of anything remotely quantitative and complex.

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With indoor air you can get levels this high from the respiration of the people in the room - the solution is not to stop the people from breathing, but to open the windows.
Just what are you going on about?
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  #104  
Old 09.05.2007, 22:21
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Small fry...there's one in Columbia that's brewing away quite nicely at the moment that'll make Etna look like someone smoking a cigarette
I believe it popped its cork last year. A couple of my friends were over there when it did. It affected their holiday. The only reason I wasn't on that trip was because I was preparing to come to Die Schweiz.
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  #105  
Old 10.05.2007, 09:57
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

OK, perhaps the term 'manipulating' was unfair, however my point is still valid - often people are easily misled by such a presentation of data. A thousandfold increase from normal levels of any harmless substance can become harmful.

I do not believe that CO2 is "an asphyxiant at 4.5% by volume" - asphyxia is caused by a lack of Oxygen rather then the excess CO2. However, even if this were not the case, it still (at 1000 times the normal air concentration) is relatively far less harmful then water (consumption of which at levels around 4-5 times the recommended could kill), or even Oxygen.

I may well 'displays a deep naivety', be stupid, profoundly ignorant, innumerate, and all the other things that you accuse me of.

I'm not a mathematician, and this is not a peer reviewed scientific journal that I'm posting on - just a forum, where I've knocked up figures, that you are welcome to correct. I did Computing at the Polytechnic, then a second degree with OU, and an MBA. For the last 20+ years I've been working in IT - so I may be 'innumerate' as you put it, but computers are very 'numerate' and I know who to use them and analyze data when I see it.

However, thats enough about me, could we stick to the mater of the debate.

To please you, I have removed my offending mug-shot, and replaced it with one possibly less unpleasant.

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Who is manipulating figures to make which point? One of your problems is that you fail to see a discussion of facts for what they are, and can only interpret them politically. This displays a deep naivete on your part. A serious gap in your intellectual life.

After having read your stupid poll about why people should post pictures of themselves, and the fact that you have started up again on this thread, I've adblocked your frankly worrying picture. Because if that is you, and if you really do hold that expression in front of a camera ...

Just what is your point? I think you fail to realise that you are not answering the question.

Not for the first time you are spouting utter drivel. It's a shame, because you can manage to put a grammatical sentence together. Assuming you are sincere and not trolling, I can only conclude that you are too arrogant - or worse, stupid - to realise that, every time you try to be quantitative, you come across as, at best ignorant, or worse, innumerate.

I know, I know: "Don't feed the Troll!" but I can't help it.

Again, utter tripe. What are you talking about? By your "reasoning", the irrational number "pi" has been 3 ever since it was discovered. Although "pi" is nowhere near as irrational as you.

I agree that 4.5% CO2 won't kill you. But that is not to say it is not harmless. CO2 as an asphyxiant at 4.5% by volume, and its effects as a greenhouse gas at that level are not the same phenomena.

You are demonstrating again your profound ignorance of anything remotely quantitative and complex.

Just what are you going on about?
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  #106  
Old 10.05.2007, 10:09
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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To please you, I have removed my offending mug-shot, and replaced it with one possibly less unpleasant.
nope, I can still see you.
Is that Guantanamo Bay-orange you're sporting there?

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  #107  
Old 10.05.2007, 10:26
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

But I'm not smiling on this one, and i suspect it was the smile that he didn't like!

Sorry, I can't change my face - wish I could, but i'm stuck it!

Whats 'Guantanamo Bay-orange' ?

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nope, I can still see you.
Is that Guantanamo Bay-orange you're sporting there?

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  #108  
Old 10.05.2007, 10:34
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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But I'm not smiling on this one, and i suspect it was the smile that he didn't like!

Sorry, I can't change my face - wish I could, but i'm stuck it!

Whats 'Guantanamo Bay-orange' ?

Can we have a similar shot, but with you holding up your hands "flashing" your bling ?
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  #109  
Old 10.05.2007, 10:37
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

I did not read the bit about the adblocking - LOL.

Do you have death-ray vision?
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  #110  
Old 10.05.2007, 10:38
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

For those that are interested, I came across this fantastic link : AFBD = Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

Excerpt -

BEWARE OF COMMERCIAL AFDBS: Since you should trust no one, always construct your AFDB yourself to avoid the risk of subversion and mental enslavement. Sometimes, AFDBs will be sold on places like eBay. Do not purchase these pre-made AFDBs, even if the seller seems trustworthy. They may contain backdoors, pinholes, integrated psychotronic circuitry or other methods that actually promote mind control.

Woohoo .... we can now all stave off corporate / media / governmental mind control ......

Last edited by Polorise; 10.05.2007 at 10:38. Reason: clarification
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  #111  
Old 10.05.2007, 10:45
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Never argue with an idiot (you know who you are) .... they always drag you down to their level & beat you with experience .... Twain
Hey Polorise, did you always have this signature line, or did you change it recently ?
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  #112  
Old 10.05.2007, 10:47
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I do not believe that CO2 is "an asphyxiant at 4.5% by volume" - asphyxia is caused by a lack of Oxygen rather then the excess CO2. However, even if this were not the case, it still (at 1000 times the normal air concentration) is relatively far less harmful then water (consumption of which at levels around 4-5 times the recommended could kill), or even Oxygen.

May I respectfully point out that the human metabolism is far more sensitive to slight variations of CO2 levels as compared to variations in O2 levels. A marginal increase of CO2 level can also lead to asphyxia since it decreases the hemoglobin oxygen-carrying capability.

You do know that the security limit for CO2 is 0.5% (5'000 ppm) do you?
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  #113  
Old 10.05.2007, 10:48
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Hey Polorise, did you always have this signature line, or did you change it recently ?
what does ya think Sherlock ???

Thought I would add a picture to demonstrate the AFDB in use, please note the addition of antennae & also the practical "see no evil" wraparounds ....

global-warming-what-s-behind-tinfoilhat_debate.jpg

I love the Interweb ... even if my every keystroke is being monitored
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  #114  
Old 10.05.2007, 11:09
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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mayhap our unhappy correspondent would like to prove Shorrick wrong by carrying out an experiment ?

how about attaching a hose to the exhaust of your car, place hosepipe in window of car, winding up to negate any slippage. Get in car, close door & start engine. Stay in car for at least 45 mins, you may feel a little drowsy, have a nice nap ......
Lets not get dioxide and monoxide confused now!
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  #115  
Old 10.05.2007, 11:23
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Lets not get dioxide and monoxide confused now!
bugger .... thanks for popping my bubble of smugness ... post removed as not technically correct .....
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  #116  
Old 10.05.2007, 11:24
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Lets not get dioxide and monoxide confused now!
The difference between the two is that since the body does not react to increased levels of CO in blood, you will pass out peacefully (same happens when O2 decreases below normal levels).

The body will fight rising CO2 levels by increasing respiratory frequency (and the horrible "I can't breathe feeling") but the end result will be the same.

A 40'000 ppm concentration is classified as an immediate threat to life (for the math inclined people, that's 4% by volume). Maximum short term exposure is 30'000 ppm and average safety limit 5'000 ppm.
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  #117  
Old 10.05.2007, 12:17
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

No I didn't know that - not sure if I believe it either. As I understand it, human (mammal) metabolism has an absolute need for Oxygen. If you stop breathing the body will utilize the oxygen from the air in your lungs, when that runs out it'll use the oxygen from the OH- molecules in the fluids, when that runs you'd die. This takes 3 minutes.

The body does not need CO2, it is a waste product. When you inhale the air has 20% or so oxygen, when you exhale much of the oxygen is used up and replaced by CO2 - levels of which are thousands time higher the the inhaled air.

If you retain your breath, the CO2 level will increase as the blood fluids become acidic from the body utilizing the OH- ions in the blood. This is not recommended, and can be dangerous, but there are yogi's that do this deliberately. There are yogic systems where breath is held for several minutes.

I once read about a guy, a japanese inventor, who would do this under water (he'd sit there with an pen that can write underwater). Apparently it has has a particular effect, and he said that many of his inventions came to him this way.

About CAR exhaust fumes - it is not the CO2 that is harmful, but other things like
  • carbon (soot);
  • nitrogen;
  • carbon monoxide;
  • aldehydes;
  • nitrogen dioxide;
  • sulphur dioxide;
  • polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons.
See: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg286.htm

It is these and other dangerous pollutants that we should be worried about, and stop from ruining our air - not CO2.


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May I respectfully point out that the human metabolism is far more sensitive to slight variations of CO2 levels as compared to variations in O2 levels. A marginal increase of CO2 level can also lead to asphyxia since it decreases the hemoglobin oxygen-carrying capability.

You do know that the security limit for CO2 is 0.5% (5'000 ppm) do you?
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  #118  
Old 10.05.2007, 12:46
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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No I didn't know that - not sure if I believe it either.
Mkay. Maybe you need to get in touch with the guys that establish dangerous goods regulations which are used worldwide, I'm sure they'd be interested with your input.

I'm sure they have a hidden agenda when warning people that inhaling anything above 5% CO2 can kill you within minutes.

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As I understand it, human (mammal) metabolism has an absolute need for Oxygen. If you stop breathing the body will utilize the oxygen from the air in your lungs, when that runs out it'll use the oxygen from the OH- molecules in the fluids, when that runs you'd die. This takes 3 minutes.
I am interested in that OH theory. I thought anaerobic Krebs cycles functioned somewhat differently.

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The body does not need CO2, it is a waste product. When you inhale the air has 20% or so oxygen, when you exhale much of the oxygen is used up and replaced by CO2 - levels of which are thousands time higher the the inhaled air.
What you fail to understand is that ironically the human metabolic system is driven by CO2 blood saturation, not by O2.

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About CAR exhaust fumes - it is not the CO2 that is harmful, but other things like
  • carbon (soot);
  • nitrogen;
  • carbon monoxide;
  • aldehydes;
  • nitrogen dioxide;
  • sulphur dioxide;
  • polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons.
Nitrogen is dangerous? LOL. Maybe i should stop nitrox diving. Or maybe not.

I am also very interested in the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons you mention. Care to expand.

Last edited by Shorrick Mk2; 10.05.2007 at 14:22.
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  #119  
Old 10.05.2007, 12:50
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

I blame the Reptilians....
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  #120  
Old 10.05.2007, 13:00
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I blame the Reptilians....

Absolutely, there's well documented evidence all over the net, why don't people just read it?
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