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  #1361  
Old 04.04.2013, 11:58
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Read it carefully, you're wrong there. Temperatures are only rising year-on-year if the distance to the zero line is increasing. However even the most cursory of glances shows a fairly constant long-term warming trend.

As anyone that bothers to look into it knows there was an exceptional peak in the late 90s due to an unusually strong el nino. I've seen some research to suggest the current relative hiatus is down to solar activity (or lack of it). I've also seen stuff to suggest we will pay for this big time in 10 or 20 years.

I've said it before - there is nothing new about climate change, it has been going on since the earth had an atmosphere. It is the speed of that change that has the potential to kill most of us because both many eco systems and agriculture simply won't be able to keep pace. The 20s and/or 30s could be very troubling.
About "Temperatures are only rising year-on-year if the distance to the zero line is increasing." Agreed.

About "even the most cursory of glances shows a fairly constant long-term warming trend".
Well my cursory glance (see picture) shows a warming trend of 0.8C for 8 decades from 1920 (0.1C per decade) then stable temperatures for around the current two decades.
Or a longer term view we see that temperatures rose only 0.6C for 12 decades from 1880 (0.05C per decade). I suppose we could argue about what is long term & what is not; I prefer to wait & see what happens next to global temperatures.
BTW, before 1850 everybody agrees that global temps were relatively flat for a thousand or more years; remember the hockey stick.

About "I've seen some research to suggest the current relative hiatus is down to solar activity (or lack of it)." I have also seen older research which "proved" that solar activity effect was insignificant versus CO2.

About "I've also seen stuff to suggest we will pay for this big time in 10 or 20 years". Me too; something to the effect that all this warming energy is somehow stored somewhere & will suddenly be released - preposterous.
Now if mankind could really find a mechanism for storing energy like this then that would be very useful.

Last edited by marton; 08.12.2017 at 17:38.
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  #1362  
Old 04.04.2013, 12:00
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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One winter in one region is WEATHER, not Climate. Weather is something that happens over a short period of time and/or localised. Climate happens over a long period of time over wider areas, ultimately the whole planet.

If you research the last few months you will find there are other regions that were abnormally warm. It is the balance between these local effects that tells us if the planet is warming or cooling. For March yes, Europe was exceptionally cold as was to a lesser degree the USA. The polar regions, central Asia and North Africa were all too warm. Greenland and the Arctic Ocean exceptionally so.
What's a long period of time? In Zurich we had snowfall starting at the end of October, and running intermittently until now- over 6 months. Does that qualify as a "long" period of time? We have this vague definition, both in time and space, of the boundary of what is the study of weather and what is the study of climate, and while it is fine to have this grey area, it is highly suspect when the grey area seems to ebb and flow to suit the political definition of "Global Warming"

Also, "Too warm" as compared to what?
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  #1363  
Old 04.04.2013, 12:09
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Every time you fart plant an acorn.That will solve it. I have a little forest on the go.
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  #1364  
Old 04.04.2013, 12:10
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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One winter in one region is WEATHER, not Climate. Weather is something that happens over a short period of time and/or localised. Climate happens over a long period of time over wider areas, ultimately the whole planet.

If you research the last few months you will find there are other regions that were abnormally warm. It is the balance between these local effects that tells us if the planet is warming or cooling. For March yes, Europe was exceptionally cold as was to a lesser degree the USA. The polar regions, central Asia and North Africa were all too warm. Greenland and the Arctic Ocean exceptionally so.
A good place to look at world temperatures is here, this is a US Govt. site. Currently 2013 is on track to be the 12th warmest year since 1850.
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  #1365  
Old 04.04.2013, 12:12
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Every time you fart plant an acorn.That will solve it. I have a little forest on the go.
Farts are methane not CO2; you probably should plant 4 acorns....
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  #1366  
Old 04.04.2013, 12:19
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

I drink a lot of fizzy beer

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Farts are methane not CO2; you probably should plant 4 acorns....
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  #1367  
Old 04.04.2013, 12:23
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I drink a lot of fizzy beer
Well, if its Guinness Draught, then you're okay. Nitrogen's okay, AFAIK.
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  #1368  
Old 04.04.2013, 12:26
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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To this poster's point:

How is it stored until someone uses it?
And the costs of producing on-demand grid electricity are offset if enough solar power is fed back into the grid.
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  #1369  
Old 04.04.2013, 12:28
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Farts are methane not CO2; you probably should plant 4 acorns....
Or bottle the farts for biogas.
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Old 04.04.2013, 12:47
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Again, the straw man argument that boils down to 'save the planet, kill yourself'
Again and again; a straw man argument as a straw man argument.
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  #1371  
Old 04.04.2013, 12:48
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Or bottle the farts for biogas.
Could you imagine the smell...?
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  #1372  
Old 04.04.2013, 12:49
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Charging overnight would use the national grid, and unused solar power generated during the day is sent to the grid.
*facepalm*

the 'grid' is not some kind of giant battery you re-charge and discharge whenever you feel like.
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Old 04.04.2013, 12:54
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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One winter in one region is WEATHER, not Climate. Weather is something that happens over a short period of time and/or localised. Climate happens over a long period of time over wider areas, ultimately the whole planet.
exactly. look at the chart i posted which shows temperature changes with a 100,000 year cycle.

people are taking an extremely short sighted view and are jumping up and down at what is essentially 'noise'. even solar cycles are 11 years.
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Old 04.04.2013, 12:58
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Old 04.04.2013, 13:07
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

I'll buy the human fart theory as the cause of global warming. Ahahaha... hilarious.

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Old 04.04.2013, 13:21
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Genuine question here. A few years back there were huge heat waves across Europe that killed plenty of people. The explanation in the media, with various scientists parading across the screen, was global warming/climate change causing the polar ice to melt too fast, meaning less cooling in summer months. Ok, didn't sound TOO outrageous.

Fast forward to last week, with media and scientists trying to explain this long, exceptionally cold winter in Europe. The answer? Global warming/climate change causing the polar ice to melt, changing the jet stream path so it stays lower for longer.

Well, which is it? We're getting hotter because the polar ice is melting, we're getting colder, or somehow both?

I think what they are saying is that it doesn't matter. Just stick with the program. Because if you don't agree with them, you're a lazy, ignorant fool.

Its like arguing with any other cult devotee.
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Old 04.04.2013, 13:32
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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What's a long period of time? In Zurich we had snowfall starting at the end of October, and running intermittently until now- over 6 months. Does that qualify as a "long" period of time? We have this vague definition, both in time and space, of the boundary of what is the study of weather and what is the study of climate, and while it is fine to have this grey area, it is highly suspect when the grey area seems to ebb and flow to suit the political definition of "Global Warming"

Also, "Too warm" as compared to what?
Longer period of time = a decade at least. Certainly not one place for 6 months. In Greenland it's been some 5 or more °C above average in the same period. Equally meaningless when it comes to climate.

Too warm compared to the usual 30 year average. I think the chart I was looking at used 1972 - 2002.
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Old 04.04.2013, 13:35
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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About "I've also seen stuff to suggest we will pay for this big time in 10 or 20 years". Me too; something to the effect that all this warming energy is somehow stored somewhere & will suddenly be released - preposterous.
Now if mankind could really find a mechanism for storing energy like this then that would be very useful.
Actually I was thinking about solar cycles not any storage rubbish. However do look up negative feedback loops.
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Old 04.04.2013, 14:12
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Could you imagine the smell...?

Yes, you'd have to run it through a few filters to make it odourless and then add an artificial scent for safety.

There's a company in the UK making dog poo biogas. The dog poo bins in Switzerland are brimming with untapped energy.

http://www.triplepundit.com/2012/05/...biogas-system/

Some houses in Asia use small digester units to produce homemade biogas but I don't know how they sort out the smell problem.
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Old 04.04.2013, 14:17
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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*facepalm*

the 'grid' is not some kind of giant battery you re-charge and discharge whenever you feel like.
When I said "Charging overnight would use the national grid...", I meant charging an electric car overnight would use the grid, not charging some giant battery in the grid.

I was thinking in terms of reducing the overall costs of generating grid electricity if enough solar power is fed back into the grid.

Last edited by mustard; 04.04.2013 at 14:25. Reason: Clarity
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