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  #1961  
Old 28.10.2015, 08:45
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Phos: I can never decide whether you are naive or just someone who likes to create waves... Pray tell.
Oh, its not my naivete you have to worry about, nor any waves I can create. You have to worry about the gullible masses that is susceptible to unfounded hysteria. Once unleashed, that will be very hard to control short of martial law.
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  #1962  
Old 28.10.2015, 08:57
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Bacon

Definitely bacon - or smoking
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  #1963  
Old 28.10.2015, 09:22
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Bacon

Definitely bacon - or smoking

Do Dignitas serve their customers Smoky Bacon crisps?
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  #1964  
Old 28.10.2015, 11:35
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Obvioulsy I didn't read the whole thread...

I'm going to go with - COWS!
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  #1965  
Old 29.10.2015, 01:44
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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They are now trying to build up a juggernaut. The "scientific" argument I have been hearing is there is a "consensus" amongst "scientists". Was there any other? That's not science, that is politics, isn't it?
This is the most nuts argument i've ever read. I try not to come back to this thread, but how can you write that? Wtf do you think science is?

Scientists achieve consensus because ultimately they're trying to figure out how the world works through testable theories based on observations.

Politics is when you stand against all evidence to favour your represented interests. That's why there's hardly ever any consensus among politicians, and how politics is vastly different to science.
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  #1966  
Old 29.10.2015, 02:08
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

I see arguments from econmics, that somehow this is a plan to put down developing nations.

Global warming will disproportionally affect the poor, not poor nations, the poor in general. The rich will always be able to afford to move to places not affected by rising sea levels and harsher weather, they will build their homes in the most favourable places, move their farms to the best lands, it will not ever be a problem for the well off.

It's the same mentality as those rich people who brag about their great gains coming from the great risks they took, when their only risk was losing their beach house or yacht, not their home. If global warming is a thing, just move somewhere it doesn't affect you.
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  #1967  
Old 29.10.2015, 02:27
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Kindly face this fact: A few decades ago, we were being told that because of a recent trend in cooler global temperatures we were headed for an ice age. It was the "settled science" of the day (for those who swallowed it). And it didn't happen. To expect us to believe now that there's really "settled science" about the catastrophic significance of a subsequent trend in the opposite direction is plain naïve. The hyperbolic "global warming climate change" moving-target hypothesis of late has spawned more failed than accurate predictions. (I invite you to provide compelling, unequivocal evidence to the contrary.
Argument from tabloid reporting, it was reported that scientists said such things, but it certainly was not a consensus, made a nice headline, like vegetables/meat/chocolate/red wine do/do not cause cancer.

Edit: pretty sure they had to start calling it climate change rather than global warming because idiots kept saying "Global warming, that'll be nice round here!" Or "Global warming? Why is it so cold this winter then?", because they think warmer temperatures just mean milder winters and nice summers.

I can't be arsed to provide links because they're irrelevant now, why don't you post a link showing how this theory was taken seriously.

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  #1968  
Old 29.10.2015, 02:29
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

When backed into a corner, pout and say, "Well china won't do anything, so why should we?".

Seems admission of the problem to me, just say that instead.
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  #1969  
Old 29.10.2015, 09:30
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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This is the most nuts argument i've ever read. I try not to come back to this thread, but how can you write that? Wtf do you think science is?

Scientists achieve consensus because ultimately they're trying to figure out how the world works through testable theories based on observations.

Politics is when you stand against all evidence to favour your represented interests. That's why there's hardly ever any consensus among politicians, and how politics is vastly different to science.


About "how the world works through testable theories based on observations" Agreed, to quote Einstein
"No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong."


The difficulty with global warming/climate change theory is it is not testable in a laboratory. It is based on correlation, not causation - so far this century the correlation is failing.
It looks like 2015 will be warmer than any other year this century and for the first time by a margin which is greater than the degree of uncertainty in the result.


Based on this the US Govt. National centres for environmental information are talking about temperatures currently increasing at an average rate of 0.06°C per decade. Remember this is based on actual results not forecasts from models.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201509
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Old 30.10.2015, 04:56
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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About "how the world works through testable theories based on observations" Agreed, to quote Einstein
"No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong."


The difficulty with global warming/climate change theory is it is not testable in a laboratory. It is based on correlation, not causation - so far this century the correlation is failing.
It looks like 2015 will be warmer than any other year this century and for the first time by a margin which is greater than the degree of uncertainty in the result.


Based on this the US Govt. National centres for environmental information are talking about temperatures currently increasing at an average rate of 0.06°C per decade. Remember this is based on actual results not forecasts from models.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201509
For September. That report is specifically about september, not yearly averages across all months, decade averages for september. That's some nice cherry picking.
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Old 30.10.2015, 05:07
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Let's take your same source, with the anual report from last year : https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201413

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Overall, the global annual temperature has increased at an average rate of 0.06°C (0.11°F) per decade since 1880 and at an average rate of 0.16°C (0.28°F) per decade since 1970.
Ouch.
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  #1972  
Old 30.10.2015, 10:18
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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For September. That report is specifically about september, not yearly averages across all months, decade averages for september. That's some nice cherry picking.
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Let's take your same source, with the anual report from last year : https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201413

Overall, the global annual temperature has increased at an average rate of 0.06°C (0.11°F) per decade since 1880 and at an average rate of 0.16°C (0.28°F) per decade since 1970.

Ouch.
I would not describe looking at the latest available data "cherry picking"!
Glad you actually looked at the site and you could see that there is a lot of data available which you can cut and slice as you wish.


If we take your quoted numbers of an average rate of 0.06°C per decade since 1880 and at an average rate of 0.16°C per decade since 1970 then if the trend continues then we are looking at a century end temperature of between +0.6C to +1.6C.


From the same site if we just look at this century then we see an average rate of 0.11°C per decade which is quite modest considering one third of all man made CO2 emissions were emitted this century?
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-s...&lasttrendyear=


You ignored my comments about testing so I assume you agree with me?
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  #1973  
Old 30.10.2015, 12:56
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I would not describe looking at the latest available data "cherry picking"!
Glad you actually looked at the site and you could see that there is a lot of data available which you can cut and slice as you wish.


If we take your quoted numbers of an average rate of 0.06°C per decade since 1880 and at an average rate of 0.16°C per decade since 1970 then if the trend continues then we are looking at a century end temperature of between +0.6C to +1.6C.


From the same site if we just look at this century then we see an average rate of 0.11°C per decade which is quite modest considering one third of all man made CO2 emissions were emitted this century?
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-s...&lasttrendyear=


You ignored my comments about testing so I assume you agree with me?
I would definitely call it cherry picking as you clearly expected a well respected and supported theory would be torn down by you looking at a single month of data, and being unsurprised that the result was so far off.

The rise is actually within the ipcc predictions, which seems to imply their models are correct, whether you think the rise is modest or not has no relevance, the difference between frozen and unfrozen water is tiny.
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  #1974  
Old 31.10.2015, 20:44
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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the difference between frozen and unfrozen water is tiny.

Latent heat of water fusion is two orders of magnitude higher than its specific heat capacity. It is actually THE difference.
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  #1975  
Old 31.10.2015, 21:04
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Do you have to be trained to be this stupid? With the creationists i get it, the world of science will never meet up with their beliefs, but the others? Like, how many times does it take for when your sources continously show you up to be a gullible idiot? Ah yeah, this source totally had the graph cropped, but i don't reckon they'll lie to me next time.

It's mostly funny because of PR, something most western government aren't allowed to spend on, but private companies can spend all they want on. If government spends money on PR, it's Propaganda, if it's a private company, **** you for saying it's anything other than good moral people working hard for you.

Last edited by cyrus; 31.10.2015 at 21:07. Reason: Less genral, hope i was quick enough, otherwise, well
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Old 31.10.2015, 21:06
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Latent heat of water fusion is two orders of magnitude higher than its specific heat capacity. It is actually THE difference.
What order of temperature difference makes your point relevant?
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  #1977  
Old 01.11.2015, 16:45
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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Latent heat of water fusion is two orders of magnitude higher than its specific heat capacity. It is actually THE difference.
I have Prausnitz et al's "Properties of liquids and gases" on my desk at work, so I suppose that I should get your point, but I don't understand. Please explain.

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  #1978  
Old 02.11.2015, 23:25
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

New "peer reviewed" report from Nasa
"Mass gains of the Antarctic ice sheet exceed losses" Look here.

The findings challenges previous research including the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s 2013 study, which concluded that the sea is rising by 0.27 millimeters annually because of melting in Antarctica.

Never mind I am sure somebody will soon prove the Antarctica ice really is melting.
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  #1979  
Old 02.11.2015, 23:30
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

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I would definitely call it cherry picking as you clearly expected a well respected and supported theory would be torn down by you looking at a single month of data, and being unsurprised that the result was so far off.

The rise is actually within the ipcc predictions, which seems to imply their models are correct, whether you think the rise is modest or not has no relevance, the difference between frozen and unfrozen water is tiny.
About "I would definitely call it cherry picking as you clearly expected a well respected and supported theory would be torn down by you looking at a single month of data,"

Actually no, I wrote "It looks like 2015 will be warmer than any other year this century and for the first time by a margin which is greater than the degree of uncertainty in the result." My statement was not towards tearing down the theory, au contraire, it was supporting the theory.
Stay awake at the back of the class there!
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  #1980  
Old 06.11.2015, 17:10
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Re: Global Warming - what's behind it?

Technocracy.news: Former President Of Greenpeace Scientifically Rips Climate Change To Shreds

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[The IPCC] is hopelessly conflicted by its makeup and it mandate. The Panel...are required only to focus on “a change of climate which is attributed directly or indirectly to human activity that alters the composition of the atmosphere, and which is in addition to natural climate variability.”
 So if the IPCC found that climate change was not being affected by human alteration of the atmosphere or that it is not “dangerous” there would be no need for them to exist. They are virtually mandated to find on the side of apocalypse.

How many politicians or members of the media or the public are aware of this statement about climate change from the IPCC in 2007?
“we should recognise that we are dealing with a coupled nonlinear chaotic system, and therefore that the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible.”
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