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  #481  
Old 19.08.2009, 17:35
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Re: Americans put the boot into the NHS

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Interesting article in the London Times today.

The NHS: Britain and America are both right
Like Dougal's Breakfast said so long ago, the UK's and USA's systems are right - for their respective countries. What works in the UK wouldn't work in the USA and vice versa.
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  #482  
Old 22.08.2009, 12:29
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Re: Americans put the boot into the NHS

Interesting article in todays Guardian

Dying for affordable healthcare the uninsured speak
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  #483  
Old 22.08.2009, 13:25
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Re: Americans put the boot into the NHS

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Interesting article in todays Guardian

Dying for affordable healthcare the uninsured speak

This is absolutely fascinating. I actually know several physicians in private practice who do not have health insurance themselves, but rely on health insurance from their spouse's employment. Amazing isn't it, that the people who provide health care don't even have coverage - because medical practices are small businesses, and it's hard for small businesses to insure their employees.

I think the article provides a pretty fair view of how insurance works in the US, too.

Interesting about the physician profiled. One of his parents must have had Huntington's Chorea as well....although is it frequently misdiagnosed (or at least was frequently misdiagnosed). Pretty sad tale though.
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  #484  
Old 22.08.2009, 13:36
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Re: Americans put the boot into the NHS

I think that the US will have some form of public option. I and other Obama supporters are going to start campaigning for it.
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Old 22.08.2009, 13:50
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Re: Americans put the boot into the NHS

This article is so biased towards the left it's not even funny. At a glance I found several distortions or outright lies in the piece. I'm not even going to address several of the errors in the main body of the piece, but will instead focus on the author's conclusions:

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What is Obama trying to do?
The goal is to increase access to healthcare by regulating costs. His plan would guarantee all citizens eligibility for care, but the government is not proposing a "single-payer system", like the NHS.
Obama has gone on record many times stating that he wants the industry to become a single payer system:

http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-in-03-...lth-care-plan/

“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.”

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Instead, private health insurers would continue to operate under new rules that would lower premiums and remove loopholes that allow them to avoid paying for treatment when it is most needed. Per person, healthcare costs are higher in the US than in any other country, and have been rising faster than the level of inflation. The quality of care is less of an issue — although citizens with solid insurance may be frustrated by the paperwork and costs associated with the current system, they have fewer complaints about their doctors and hospitals.
Republicans have proposed removing loopholes as well - not just Democrats.

However, we're against lowering premiums - for the simple fact that if you force them to lower premiums, you force them to pay for less procedures, and thus restrict access to health care.

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Who's opposing Obama's plan?
Those who fear the government would introduce congressional "death panels" to make end-of-life decisions for the elderly. The insurance industry is worried about their bottom lines. Members of Congress and voters on the left and right are concerned about the future tax burden. Many Americans also object to any increase in government involvement in their personal lives.
Sadly for the author, polls continue to show that a majority of American voters - not just the right wing - object to health care reform as currently presented:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...ressional_plan

54% Say Passing No Healthcare Reform Better Than Passing Congressional Plan

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How can healthcare costs get so out of hand?
Many insurance plans do not cover "pre-existing conditions", so it can be difficult for people who have a chronic ailment to secure cover. Loopholes allow insurers to refuse reimbursement even if the policyholder did not know they had a particular condition when they took out insurance. "Lifetime caps" allow insurers to set a maximum amount of cover.
The right is not arguing the costs are out of hand. The right is arguing that we need to control costs through free market mechanisms, not government intervention.

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Who are the uninsured?
Up to 46 million Americans are uninsured, because they are unemployed, or their employer does not provide cover, or because they do not qualify for existing government-funded healthcare. People 65 and older can qualify for Medicare, the poor can qualify for Medicaid, veterans and members of the military can qualify for Veterans Health Administration and Tricare and children can be covered under a programme called SCHIP. Those overlooked by the system include the young just entering the workforce, the self-employed, the unemployed and people who work for small businesses.
This last point really pisses me off. It's a total distortion:

-14 million of these uninsured qualify for government programs / assistance, but just haven't signed up yet http://www.coverageforall.org/pdf/BC...ed-America.pdf

-10 million are not citizens of the United States - they are either illegal aliens or visitors http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p60-235.pdf

So with these factors in mind, now we're down to 22 million uninsured Americans. Still a large number. But - since health insurance is completely voluntary, we can't estimate how many families simply choose not to purchase health insurance because they're not willing to budget for it.

I'm sure the "anti-budgeting for healthcare" lobby here on the forum will have apoplexy at this point. It's important to understand that health care will never be free, which is what these people seem to want. You will pay with your tax dollars, or you will pay with your discretionary income.
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  #486  
Old 22.08.2009, 15:04
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Re: Americans put the boot into the NHS

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It's important to understand that health care will never be free, which is what these people seem to want. You will pay with your tax dollars, or you will pay with your discretionary income.

No, I think many of us, myself included realize that health care will never be free. It's not free in Switzerland. We simply want access to be affordable and available for everyone. And I want to see people working for small businesses able to benefit from the same group structures as large employer group plans.

I'd like to see a poll testing omprehension about the issues of respondents of one of these polls. Yes, I know that sounds smug, but I think there is a lot of disinformation - on both sides. Also, I look at these polls and the questions aren't asking what I want to know. You can quote Rassmussen all you like, but asking about health care is different than asking about if you're going to vote for x or y.

Last edited by edot; 22.08.2009 at 15:29.
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  #487  
Old 23.08.2009, 05:29
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Re: Americans put the boot into the NHS

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No, I think many of us, myself included realize that health care will never be free. It's not free in Switzerland. We simply want access to be affordable and available for everyone. And I want to see people working for small businesses able to benefit from the same group structures as large employer group plans.

I'd like to see a poll testing omprehension about the issues of respondents of one of these polls. Yes, I know that sounds smug, but I think there is a lot of disinformation - on both sides. Also, I look at these polls and the questions aren't asking what I want to know. You can quote Rassmussen all you like, but asking about health care is different than asking about if you're going to vote for x or y.
No, it doesn't sound smug at all, I would ask the same thing - polling is a tricky thing at the best of times. I looked at a lot of polling sites to see which one was most accurate. Rasumussen consistently came out on top.

Morg
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  #488  
Old 22.06.2011, 09:35
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Re: Americans put the boot into the NHS

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...ery-healthcare

Man stages bank robbery for 1 dollar so that he can qualify for state healthcare in the US.

The NHS may not have comfy chairs and private rooms, but its healthcare for everyone.

(I know this is an old thread but its a novel story on this subject).
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