Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #301  
Old 18.12.2009, 12:29
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 164 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Quote:
View Post
Not attacking Mulsims?...
No, the Israeli Goverment doesn't attack Muslims based on their Faith. What are you getting at? Oh! We have to read between your lines again!

Perhaps you meant "Some extremists attack..."? Now it makes sense...
  #302  
Old 18.12.2009, 13:22
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Quote:
View Post
No, the Israeli Goverment doesn't attack Muslims based on their Faith. What are you getting at? Oh! We have to read between your lines again!

Perhaps you meant "Some extremists attack..."? Now it makes sense...
So Israeli Extremists/terrorist exist. Many of them are settlers. Do they exist with or without the cooperation of the Israeli government?
  #303  
Old 18.12.2009, 14:34
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 449
Groaned at 222 Times in 158 Posts
Thanked 1,823 Times in 1,002 Posts
Pashosh is considered a nuisancePashosh is considered a nuisancePashosh is considered a nuisance
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Check the news - the Israeli govemernment condemned the Israeli extrermists, investigated & prosecuted them.

The majority of the Palestinians voted for palestinian terrorists.

Every nation gets the leader it deserves.


This user would like to thank Pashosh for this useful post:
  #304  
Old 18.12.2009, 15:03
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZG
Posts: 5,609
Groaned at 120 Times in 98 Posts
Thanked 16,807 Times in 5,338 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Quote:
View Post
Every nation gets the leader it deserves
I personally think the Israeli people deserve a lot better.
  • Ex Israeli President Moshe Katsav formally charged with rape
  • Ex finance minister Abraham Hirchson in jail for Embezzlement
  • Ex PM Ehud Olmert standing trial for corruption
  • Ex PM Ariel Sharon charged with corruption (quietly dropped when he went into a coma)
  • Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman faces criminal probe on corruption charges
The following 3 users would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #305  
Old 18.12.2009, 15:38
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 449
Groaned at 222 Times in 158 Posts
Thanked 1,823 Times in 1,002 Posts
Pashosh is considered a nuisancePashosh is considered a nuisancePashosh is considered a nuisance
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Finally an accurate post from Castro...

Note that 4 out of 5 are Ex politicians - Unless Sharon wakes up (which wouldn't surprise me, the wily old man...). Other ex politicians were convicted as well.

Like everywhere else - power corrupts. At least Israel has an active media & independent judiciary to keep corruption in check.
  #306  
Old 18.12.2009, 15:47
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,871
Groaned at 179 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 6,154 Times in 3,378 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Quote:
View Post
I personally think the Israeli people deserve a lot better.
  • Ex Israeli President Moshe Katsav formally charged with rape
  • Ex finance minister Abraham Hirchson in jail for Embezzlement
  • Ex PM Ehud Olmert standing trial for corruption
  • Ex PM Ariel Sharon charged with corruption (quietly dropped when he went into a coma)
  • Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman faces criminal probe on corruption charges
Ex Menchem Begin-Terrorist
Ex Yitzak Shamir-Terrorist
  #307  
Old 18.12.2009, 16:12
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 449
Groaned at 222 Times in 158 Posts
Thanked 1,823 Times in 1,002 Posts
Pashosh is considered a nuisancePashosh is considered a nuisancePashosh is considered a nuisance
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Both Begin & Shamir were not terrorsits, they fought against one of the most powerful armies at the time - The British army. and won.
  #308  
Old 18.12.2009, 16:30
nasa2000's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 434
Groaned at 18 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 280 Times in 130 Posts
nasa2000 has earned the respect of manynasa2000 has earned the respect of manynasa2000 has earned the respect of many
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Quote:
View Post
Both Begin & Shamir were not terrorsits, they fought against one of the most powerful armies at the time - The British army. and won.
Wasn't Yitzhak Shamira a member of the ( Lehi group ) which assissnated the UN representative in the Middle East Count Bernadotte in 1948 ?


Classify such an act please.
  #309  
Old 18.12.2009, 16:52
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 449
Groaned at 222 Times in 158 Posts
Thanked 1,823 Times in 1,002 Posts
Pashosh is considered a nuisancePashosh is considered a nuisancePashosh is considered a nuisance
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

the answer in in the question: it was a political assassination. the murderers were convicted and jailed.
  #310  
Old 18.12.2009, 17:21
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Quote:
View Post
Both Begin & Shamir were not terrorsits, they fought against one of the most powerful armies at the time - The British army. and won.
I think according to my Roberts Penguin History the British class them as terrorists. But you are right about how they can monitor their own- so many great lawyers.
Tzipi Livni has expressed her dismay over the mosque bombing. If she had sided with Netanyahu and not split to the Kadima party then she would have been classed as a diplomat and would have immunity, like the others.

Some may say that the Palestinians are not terrorists- they are freedom fighters fighting against one of the world's most powerful armies- the Israeli army!

What surprised me is Einstein's involvement with Zionism, (I always thought that he was a pacifist) and the history of Brandeis University. A good article for anyone who has the time about the differences between American and European Jews concerning Zionism is an article from The Atlantic How Einstein divided America's Jews
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200912/isaacson-einstein

Also interesting is the current ruling of racism in a Jewish school in the UK

Quote:
But Jewish leaders said the verdict, passed by a narrow five-to-four majority, showed the difficulty in applying modern law to 3,500 years of Jewish tradition, and warned it could have an impact on other Jewish organizations.

The case arose after the school refused to admit a 12-year-old boy whose father was a practicing Jew and whose mother had converted to Judaism at a non-Orthodox synagogue. This conversion process is unrecognized by the Office of the Chief Rabbi of Britain, and the school rejected the boy's application saying that his mother was not Jewish, and therefore the boy was not either.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1135687.html

Which is so sad when you compare it with this school run by Steve Langford a Warwick Economics graduate who became interested in Judaism. The school has an amazing interfaith record.
  #311  
Old 18.12.2009, 17:29
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 449
Groaned at 222 Times in 158 Posts
Thanked 1,823 Times in 1,002 Posts
Pashosh is considered a nuisancePashosh is considered a nuisancePashosh is considered a nuisance
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

We've discussed this so many times before: the definition of a terrorist is clear: someone who indiscriminately attacks civilians to scare other civilian to achieve a political goal.

Begin & Shamir didn't do it. Palestinians do it all the time and are proud of it.
  #312  
Old 18.12.2009, 17:40
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Quote:
View Post
We've discussed this so many times before: the definition of a terrorist is clear: someone who indiscriminately attacks civilians to scare other civilian to achieve a political goal.

Begin & Shamir didn't do it. Palestinians do it all the time and are proud of it.
So if Israel deliberately attacks a school or hospital in Gaza that is OK, becuase it is not indiscriminate bombing even though the objective of those bombings and the phosphorous bombs is to terrorize? I think that there are terrorists on both side before and now. Israel just has more power, and can get away with it, so they kill more.
  #313  
Old 18.12.2009, 17:50
nasa2000's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 434
Groaned at 18 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 280 Times in 130 Posts
nasa2000 has earned the respect of manynasa2000 has earned the respect of manynasa2000 has earned the respect of many
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Quote:
View Post
the answer in in the question: it was a political assassination. the murderers were convicted and jailed.
To my knowledge no one was jailed for it. Yes there were arrests for members of the Lehi group but no one had a sentence for it ( correct me).

Anyways, this is not my point, the question is : Did Yitzhak Shamira approve the assassination of a UN representative or not?

Yes he did! so I don't understand in what context you trying to put him as a hero.
  #314  
Old 18.12.2009, 18:00
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,871
Groaned at 179 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 6,154 Times in 3,378 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

[quote=Pashosh;647573]Both Begin & Shamir were not terrorsits, they fought against one of the most powerful armies at the time - The British army. and won.[/quote

Pashosh: You are a joke!
If the British army would have done what you do in Gaza ,your existents would be doubtful
  #315  
Old 18.12.2009, 18:04
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,553
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Quote:
View Post
We've discussed this so many times before: the definition of a terrorist is clear: someone who indiscriminately attacks civilians to scare other civilian to achieve a political goal.
So, non-terrorist incidents include:

The Al-Qaeda attack on the USS Cole
Provisional IRA attacks at Hyde Park and Regents Park and many others

I don't accept your definition. Few would.

As for Lehi, they saw themselves as terrorists:

Quote:
Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat. We are very far from having any moral qualms as far as our national war goes. We have before us the command of the Torah, whose morality surpasses that of any other body of laws in the world: "Ye shall blot them out to the last man." But first and foremost, terrorism is for us a part of the political battle being conducted under the present circumstances, and it has a great part to play: speaking in a clear voice to the whole world, as well as to our wretched brethren outside this land, it proclaims our war against the occupier. We are particularly far from this sort of hesitation in regard to an enemy whose moral perversion is admitted by all.
This is from a Lehi publication He Khazit (underground publication of Lehi), Issue 2, August 1943 (via Wiki)
The following 4 users would like to thank Gastro Gnome for this useful post:
  #316  
Old 18.12.2009, 18:09
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,871
Groaned at 179 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 6,154 Times in 3,378 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

[quote=Gastro Gnome;647683]So, non-terrorist incidents include:

The Al-Qaeda attack on the USS Cole
Provisional IRA attacks at Hyde Park and Regents Park and many others

I don't accept your definition. Few would.[/quote

Under what category does the "USS Liberty" fall??
  #317  
Old 18.12.2009, 18:14
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,553
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Oh, and what about Deir Yassin?
  #318  
Old 18.12.2009, 18:30
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,871
Groaned at 179 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 6,154 Times in 3,378 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Quote:
View Post
Both Begin & Shamir were not terrorsits, they fought against one of the most powerful armies at the time - The British army. and won.
Deir Yassin
Early in the morning of April 9,1948 commandos of the Irgun (headed by Mnachem Begin) and the Stern Gang attacked Deir Yassin,-----------
In all over 100 men women and children where systematically murdered---
  #319  
Old 18.12.2009, 18:45
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,871
Groaned at 179 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 6,154 Times in 3,378 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

http://www.mediamonitors.net/isaacmelton1.html

It`s not only I which thinks the are terrorists
  #320  
Old 18.12.2009, 20:40
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 449
Groaned at 222 Times in 158 Posts
Thanked 1,823 Times in 1,002 Posts
Pashosh is considered a nuisancePashosh is considered a nuisancePashosh is considered a nuisance
Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Quote:
View Post
So if Israel deliberately attacks a school or hospital in Gaza that is OK, becuase it is not indiscriminate bombing even though the objective of those bombings and the phosphorous bombs is to terrorize? I think that there are terrorists on both side before and now. Israel just has more power, and can get away with it, so they kill more.
Hoppy fails again to check the facts - The schools were used by Hamas to fire at soldiers. as such they are legitimate targets. Hamas used their own civilians as human shields.

Israel did not seek to terrorisze the population of Gaza - had it wished to do so, it could have stopped electricity, water supply etc- instead, israel provided Gazan with a daily ceasefire, emergency hospital servies etc.

Please name an Army which treated enemy civilians better, while it's civilians are targeted - Gaza could have looked like Dresden or Hiroshima.

Al Quade's attack on USS cole was a legitimate act of war against a military target well able to defend itself. definitely not a terrorist attack. From the little I read about Hyde & Regents park bombing (wiki) - only soldiers were targeted & hurt, so I would not consider it terrorist attack.

Lehi's publication - I'm not familiar with it, but judge them by their actions - how many British civilians did they kill ?

Deir Yassin was a battle in a built area - Arab civilians and Jewish soldiers were killed. After the battle vastly exaggarated reports of rape & murder were told - they were all proven wrong. including by arab scholars. Ironically - the Arabs believed these stories, fled and became refugees without ever seeing a single israeli soldier.

count B. Murder was a Murder - I did not condone it.
Closed Thread

Tags
arabs, israel, jews, levant, log off, middle east, palestanians and israeli, palestine, peace, pointless thread




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Happy Birthday Israel Pashosh International affairs/politics 88 30.04.2010 09:14
Israel - Palestine, when will it end Russkov International affairs/politics 1320 05.11.2009 08:29
Replay Revenge - Israel Palestine satire documentary jrspet International affairs/politics 0 02.01.2009 01:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0