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Old 29.12.2009, 05:18
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Gaza marchers stuck in Egyptian hotel rooms prevented from get to the border go on Hunger strike

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Whatever it takes'In Cairo hundreds of activists are camped outside the United Nations mission in Cairo trying to get them to pressure the Egyptians to let them cross the border with the Gaza Strip.
The marchers have gone on hunger strike and want the UN to help them

"I've never done this before, I don't know how my body will react, but I'll do whatever it takes," 85-year-old Hedy Epstein told AFP.
The American activist is a Holocaust survivor, the agency reported.







Last night I met a really interesting, nice family at a party, they had lived in various countries, they spoke German well, we discussed the minaret ban, racism etc. We had to leave but just as I was leaving the elderly lady mentioned something that reminded her of her time in the West Bank. Hopefully we will meet again.
  #402  
Old 29.12.2009, 13:50
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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"gives land" ? No, Israel took + takes land. It in just one major case returned taken land

Israel should
- at least stop permanently the building of new settlements
- recognize that East Jerusalem is the Capital of Palestine
Land taken/given - Almost all borders in the middle east are colonial. most "nations" (Jordan, Iraq, Syria - almost all) are colonial inventions. Sinai is part of Egypt because that's the way the British & Turks agreed - you said yourself that the Gazans have more in common with the Arabs of Northern Sinai that those of Hebron, for example.

There are about 500,000 Jews living in Judea & Samaria, the average family size is quite big. Ordering them to stop building houses and facilities is simply not practical in the medium & long term.
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Old 29.12.2009, 13:56
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Land taken/given - Almost all borders in the middle east are colonial. most "nations" (Jordan, Iraq, Syria - almost all) are colonial inventions. Sinai is part of Egypt because that's the way the British & Turks agreed - you said yourself that the Gazans have more in common with the Arabs of Northern Sinai that those of Hebron, for example.

There are about 500,000 Jews living in Judea & Samaria, the average family size is quite big. Ordering them to stop building houses and facilities is simply not practical in the medium & long term.
Uncle SAM is locking for theme, Thats where they came frome NJ
  #404  
Old 01.01.2010, 23:40
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

more war crimes!

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1139218.html
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Old 03.01.2010, 23:35
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Land taken/given - Almost all borders in the middle east are colonial. most "nations" (Jordan, Iraq, Syria - almost all) are colonial inventions. Sinai is part of Egypt because that's the way the British & Turks agreed - you said yourself that the Gazans have more in common with the Arabs of Northern Sinai that those of Hebron, for example.

There are about 500,000 Jews living in Judea & Samaria, the average family size is quite big. Ordering them to stop building houses and facilities is simply not practical in the medium & long term.
True, most countries in the Arab World (and Africa) are, at least to some extent, colonial inventions, including the "unsinkable aircraft carrier" of the Brits, named Israel !
  #406  
Old 03.01.2010, 23:51
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Israel is a colony of which country ? The brits, no doubt, helped to create it (very reluctently) - but to call it a colony is like calling Wollishofen a skiing destination

Hebrew was spoken in Israel millenias before a word of English was uttered.

Israel is a bona fide nation - with a unique language, religion & culture. the same can't be said of any other country in the middle east (bar, perhaps, Iran) .
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Old 04.01.2010, 00:18
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Israel is a colony of which country ? The brits, no doubt, helped to create it (very reluctently) - but to call it a colony is like calling Wollishofen a skiing destination

Hebrew was spoken in Israel millenias before a word of English was uttered.

Israel is a bona fide nation - with a unique language, religion & culture. the same can't be said of any other country in the middle east (bar, perhaps, Iran) .
Jordan, not existing before 1920, now is a fully independent country. Just as in the 1950ies people went getting downwards by sledges in Wollishofen from the "Kleine Righi" ! and do not forget that much of what is Israel now was dominated in ancient times by Phoenicians, Philistines and others, so that by your criteria, Israel just is a province of either Lebanon or Syria. Welcome to the Syrian Arab Republic !
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  #408  
Old 04.01.2010, 17:53
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Israel is a colony of which country ? The brits, no doubt, helped to create it (very reluctently) - but to call it a colony is like calling Wollishofen a skiing destination

Hebrew was spoken in Israel millenias before a word of English was uttered.

Israel is a bona fide nation - with a unique language, religion & culture. the same can't be said of any other country in the middle east (bar, perhaps, Iran) .
Maybe we should start from scratch again .1891 sounds good to me
  #409  
Old 05.01.2010, 21:33
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Jordan, not existing before 1920, now is a fully independent country. Just as in the 1950ies people went getting downwards by sledges in Wollishofen from the "Kleine Righi" ! and do not forget that much of what is Israel now was dominated in ancient times by Phoenicians, Philistines and others, so that by your criteria, Israel just is a province of either Lebanon or Syria. Welcome to the Syrian Arab Republic !
True - Jordan (and Syria, Iraq & Saudi) did not exist in 1920 - they exist now, but chances are high that they will break up according to tribal lines sooner or later (see Iraq, Yemen & Lebanon today).

Welcome to eastern Austria (southern Germany ? Western Serbia ? )


back to topic - how is it possible to freeze all Jewish building activity west of the Green line ?
  #410  
Old 07.01.2010, 07:33
hoppy
 
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

I half-watched this tonight, I like Mitchell and guess that it is essential viewing for this thread. It should be available on line soon. George Mitchell, U.S. Special Envoy to the Middle East with George Mitchell on Jan 6, 2010 60 minutes with Charlie Rose

http://www.charlierose.com/guest/view/1319

Mitchell is such an optimist not like Emmanuel

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According to reports, Emanuel told Dayan the U.S. is sick of the Israelis, who adopt suitable ideas months too late, when they are no longer effective.

The U.S. is also sick of the Palestinians who never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, Emanuel reportedly said.

Emanuel added that if there is no progress in the peace process, the Obama administration will reduce its involvement in the conflict, because, as he reportedly said, the U.S. has other matters to deal with.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1140374.html
  #411  
Old 07.01.2010, 09:54
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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True - Jordan (and Syria, Iraq & Saudi) did not exist in 1920 - they exist now, but chances are high that they will break up according to tribal lines sooner or later (see Iraq, Yemen & Lebanon today).

Welcome to eastern Austria (southern Germany ? Western Serbia ? )


back to topic - how is it possible to freeze all Jewish building activity west of the Green line ?
A break up along tribal lines is highly unlikely, while in Saudi Arabia, a break-up along regional lines may become likely if the House of Sa'ud collapses. And Lebanon has NOT "broken up". Yemen never was in full under the control of the central government(s), the tribes outside the more important cities always had the local power. The success of Ali Abdullah Saleh is a result of his abilities as power-broker. There was no Western Serbia, but Serbia to its north was Austrian-Hungarian and to its south Turkish. And Austria became separate from Germany some 500 years ago, with Austria-Hungary having been more important even than Prussia until the 19th century.

What is expected from Israel that it stops building settlements in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem.

-

PS: The Baden region actually is the region of origin of the Habsburg, who then later on moved to Vienna

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Old 07.01.2010, 17:32
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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A break up along tribal lines is highly unlikely, while in Saudi Arabia, a break-up along regional lines may become likely if the House of Sa'ud collapses. And Lebanon has NOT "broken up". Yemen never was in full under the control of the central government(s), the tribes outside the more important cities always had the local power. The success of Ali Abdullah Saleh is a result of his abilities as power-broker. There was no Western Serbia, but Serbia to its north was Austrian-Hungarian and to its south Turkish. And Austria became separate from Germany some 500 years ago, with Austria-Hungary having been more important even than Prussia until the 19th century.

What is expected from Israel that it stops building settlements in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem.

-

PS: The Baden region actually is the region of origin of the Habsburg, who then later on moved to Vienna
Leabnon broke up many years ago and was never put together again - the Lebanese government doesn't even control all of Beirut, the refugee camps & all of the south.
You agree with me that Yemen never was a "full" soverign country - San'a is run by a dictator, most of the rest by tribal leaders.

Israeli stopping settlement building - how do you stop half a million people from building ? most of the workers doing the actual building are Palestinians. By denying them work you are playing into Hamas's hands.
  #413  
Old 07.01.2010, 17:40
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Israeli stopping settlement building - how do you stop half a million people from building ? most of the workers doing the actual building are Palestinians. By denying them work you are playing into Hamas's hands.
This is actually the most pathetic thing about it, forcing people to essentially dig their own graves. No Palestinian with an ounce of pride or self respect would build settler homes if they weren't desperate or had mouths to feed.
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Old 07.01.2010, 17:59
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Lebanon broke up many years ago and was never put together again - the Lebanese government doesn't even control all of Beirut, the refugee camps & all of the south.
You agree with me that Yemen never was a "full" soverign country - Sana'a is run by a dictator, most of the rest by tribal leaders.
You in case of Lebanon refer to the Civil War. But it is all together. "All of the South" ? You here refer to the areas north of the aerea under joint control of government army and UN troops and south of Sada and the Druze areas, which is a very small area. And you forget that General Michel Sulaiman, before becoming state president, ascertained government control over all refugee settlements (camps is rubbish, as many of these refugee settlements are places with flourishing business, elegant shops and restaurants ..... ever been there ? quite nice I can tell you) .

---

No, Yemen was and is fully sovereign. Sovereignty does not mean totalitarian centralist rule, and the tribes are represented in the Yemeni parliament, and the president is shrewd enough to abstain from the dictatorial allures his predecessor General al-Ghashmi so much liked (until having been assassinated). No General Saleh is NOT a dictator. Had he tried to be one he would not have survived for so many years at the helm of his country.

The cities under full governmental controls are Sana'a, Ta'iz, Hodaidah, Mokha, Aden, Ahjwar, Mukalla and Shibam and some others, and THIS means a majority of the population ! The government has full control over the armed forces, the central bank, healthcare, state finances, and education.
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Old 07.01.2010, 21:22
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Finally- hope you can access it Mitchell on Charlie Rose

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/10796

Why not move the Jews Nevada-it's mostly US government owned land and it has water!
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  #416  
Old 07.01.2010, 21:38
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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This is actually the most pathetic thing about it, forcing people to essentially dig their own graves. No Palestinian with an ounce of pride or self respect would build settler homes if they weren't desperate or had mouths to feed.
Doesnt' have to be - Palestinians should aim to buy homes in the settlements.

LebaNON - The government doesnt control the South - like you said. Refugee camps - I'm not allowed into lebanon (No Israelis are, even with foreign passports), but as they don't allow Palesitians to do most jobs, nor build - I can't imagine they are very pleasant places.

The ruler of Yemen is a dictator ( of the cities he rules). even the article you quoted says so.

What about my question ?
  #417  
Old 08.01.2010, 02:10
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Finally- hope you can access it Mitchell on Charlie Rose

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/10796

Why not move the Jews Nevada-it's mostly US government owned land and it has water!
Many thanks ! I have watched the whole thing all throughout
  #418  
Old 08.01.2010, 02:17
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Finally- hope you can access it Mitchell on Charlie Rose

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/10796

Why not move the Jews Nevada-it's mostly US government owned land and it has water!
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Doesnt' have to be - Palestinians should aim to buy homes in the settlements.

LebaNON - The government doesnt control the South - like you said. Refugee camps - I'm not allowed into lebanon (No Israelis are, even with foreign passports), but as they don't allow Palesitians to do most jobs, nor build - I can't imagine they are very pleasant places.

The ruler of Yemen is a dictator ( of the cities he rules). even the article you quoted says so.

What about my question ?
Lebanon and "the South" ? Hizbullah only controls a small slice of South Lebanon. Palestinians in Lebanon can build big multi storey houses, can establish and lead hotels and restaurants, can do business, a Palestinian for many years was CEO of MEA for example, a very nice beach restaurant in Ras Beirut is Palestinian owned and managed. Palestinians in Lebanon can do most jobs.

The Yemen President is not democratically elected, but is not ruling as a dictator but through parliamentary and democratic methods. You CAN describe him as a dictator but he is NOT a dictator.
  #419  
Old 08.01.2010, 05:53
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Israel to pay compensation to UN




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A woman escaping fire at the UN building in Gaza after Israeli strikes last year. Photograph: Mahmud Hams/AFP/Getty Images

Israel has agreed to pay the UN around $10m in compensation for damage caused to UN buildings in Gaza during last year's war, according to diplomatic sources.


One of the most serious incidents involving the UN in Gaza took place on 6 January near a UN boys' prep school in Jabaliya being used as a shelter for hundreds of Palestinians who had fled their homes to escape the fighting. The Israeli military fired several 120mm mortar rounds in the "immediate vicinity" of the school, killing between 30 and 40 people. Although Israel at the time insisted Hamas had fired mortars from within the school, the UN inquiry found this was untrue. It held Israel responsible for the attack.
  #420  
Old 08.01.2010, 06:12
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Now I suppose that the Goldstone Report had nothing to do with the payment to UN, because, of course, Goldstone had been successfully totally discredited

OH NO Pashosh Galloway got through.

I swear that galloway is a reincarnated Palestinian, that Scottish accent sounds very Arabic to me- note the pronunciation of Bah-rain, definitely not Scottish. Still I applaud him on his bravery on bringing in the much-needed supplies.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/vide...eorge-galloway

Today I met a very ordinary American man, who lectured me on the views of Arabs concerning the Palestine, he had just come back from the Middle East. I was taken aback and found myself defending liberal Jews and the need for Jews to have a secure homeland, it felt very wierd!
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