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  #421  
Old 08.01.2010, 06:28
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Lebanon and "the South" ? Hizbullah only controls a small slice of South Lebanon. Palestinians in Lebanon can build big multi storey houses, can establish and lead hotels and restaurants, can do business, a Palestinian for many years was CEO of MEA for example, a very nice beach restaurant in Ras Beirut is Palestinian owned and managed. Palestinians in Lebanon can do most jobs.

The Yemen President is not democratically elected, but is not ruling as a dictator but through parliamentary and democratic methods. You CAN describe him as a dictator but he is NOT a dictator.
If it is so great for Palestinians in Lebanon, why are they still forced to live in total poverty in camps like Shatila without sewer? Why aren't they allowed to get Lebanese citizenship and integrate the community?
  #422  
Old 08.01.2010, 13:57
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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If it is so great for Palestinians in Lebanon, why are they still forced to live in total poverty in camps like Shatila without sewer? Why aren't they allowed to get Lebanese citizenship and integrate the community?
Basically no-one wants the Palestinians displaced since the 1948 War.
the UN have negated their responsibility.
Lebanon accepted displaced Palestinians, but only with the agreement that they would be banned from working in about 70 professions in Lebanon. Some may see them as Arab but basically they are Palestinian and belong in the Palestine. Not only is the Lebanon, hosting the displaced Palestinians with a right to return but also displaced Lebanese who have a right to return. Israel for obvious reasons denies any right to return, there is no way that Israel wants those with the right to return to return, they would be swamped.
The presence of Palestinians also causes friction because it changes the religious make-up of the Lebanon and the power wielded by different parties. The situation has been worsened by the war of camps.


Palestinians now constitute over 10% of the Lebanese population and is rising, which is quite strain, especially as UNWRA are not supplying the aid they promised.
So most are stuck in appalling conditions, especially since many of their rights were signed away during the Oslo Accords. UAE recently donated more money but the UNWRA coffers are empty.



http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article....icle_id=110360

I read this ( old) but really don't understand its implications fully, I suppose I shuld re-read and learn about the situation more fully.
If anyone has something better please let me know.

http://ddc.aub.edu.lb/projects/pspa/khazen.html
  #423  
Old 08.01.2010, 14:00
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Any thoughts on how the arrival of Palestinians in Lebanon contributed to Lebanon's demise?
  #424  
Old 09.01.2010, 22:31
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

The Palestinians are yet another faction in Lebanon vying for power - yet another tool for the Syrians (and now, Iran) Lebanon.

They have no civil rights, no chance of meaningful employment.

Lebanon did allow them to become Lebanese citizens (Even 3rd, 4th generation of Lebanese born Palestinian cant get citizenship).

Having a large, impoverished, violent community is never a good thing.

Yemen: The leader of yemen doesnt have to compete in real election (84% approval rate - yeah, right), controls the judiciary, media & makes people disappear. That's a classic example of dictator. a classic example of a contemporary arab leader.
  #425  
Old 17.01.2010, 18:53
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1143038.html

Sorry I have to open this again
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  #426  
Old 17.01.2010, 20:58
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Put Goldstone and Mitchell together in a room and let them sort it out, with no interference from Neoconservatives, Neozionists, Netanyahu, Hamas or Fatah.

My daughter is making Sambusak, she's into Lebanese cuisine, learning from her Christian Lebanese friends.
  #427  
Old 17.01.2010, 21:50
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

An iraqi, in Israel - In Zürich.

The famous Iraqi writer, Najem Wali, will come to Zürich on 25.1 to discuss his book "Trip to the Enemy's heart - An Iraqi in Israel"

Details: http://www.spheres.cc/ (under "Aktuell")
  #428  
Old 12.02.2010, 16:09
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1149274.html

Doe`s Israel have to accept a Peace Deal soon??
  #429  
Old 12.02.2010, 16:16
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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They also promote pro-Palestinian activities in Europe as "trendy," the report says
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1149274.html
Viva La Revolución!!

  #430  
Old 12.02.2010, 16:39
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1149274.html

Doe`s Israel have to accept a Peace Deal soon??
Oh God- whoever's god, I hope so Cannut. I just can't being skeptical about the interpretation of peace.
  #431  
Old 12.02.2010, 18:34
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1149274.html

Doe`s Israel have to accept a Peace Deal soon??
Is anti-semitism a new concept? You'd do well to research who rejected the last few peace deals.
  #432  
Old 12.02.2010, 18:39
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Is anti-semitism a new concept? You'd do well to research who rejected the last few peace deals.
New concept,are you kidding ,noting new at all.Its not working anymore
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1149269.html

See for your self !

Last edited by cannut; 12.02.2010 at 18:54.
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  #433  
Old 12.02.2010, 19:07
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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New concept,are you kidding ,noting new at all.Its not working anymore
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1149269.html

See for your self !
irony fail!
  #434  
Old 12.02.2010, 19:44
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

For a mature peace, you need a democratic partner - Arab countries are a long way from achieving that (MUslim countries are not a role model, either). Hopefully Iran will be a democracy soon.

Peace with a dictatorship is just a glorified ceasefire.
  #435  
Old 12.02.2010, 23:10
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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For a mature peace, you need a democratic partner - Arab countries are a long way from achieving that (Muslim countries are not a role model, either). Hopefully Iran will be a democracy soon.

Peace with a dictatorship is just a glorified ceasefire.
AHHHHHHHHH then the Peace with Egypt and Jordan is worth **** ??
  #436  
Old 13.02.2010, 16:32
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Is anti-semitism a new concept? You'd do well to research who rejected the last few peace deals.
The peace deal you possibly have in mind was that scandalous Barak-Clinton "offer" which had the following points
> "Palestine" divided into several non-connected chunks
> "Palestine" not even reaching the Jordan River on a single point
> "Palestine" not including any percent of Arab East Jerusalem
-
No, "peace" was rejected by Israel and the USA
-
Anti-Semitism is a term out of the 19th century and the early and middle part of the 20th century, when the only Semites in Europe were the Jews. The term however is complete rubbish if used in regard to the conflict between the Semitic/Germanic Jews the the Semitic Arabs. The correct terms are "anti-Judaism" and "anti-Israelism" , and this is not semantics but simply common sense
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Old 13.02.2010, 16:35
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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For a mature peace, you need a democratic partner - Arab countries are a long way from achieving that (MUslim countries are not a role model, either). Hopefully Iran will be a democracy soon.

Peace with a dictatorship is just a glorified ceasefire.

Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt have democratically elected parliaments, Lebanon and Egypt democratically elected heads of state.

Beside this, most peace treaties on earth in reality were concluded between dictators. Dr Bashar al Assad for instance is clearly a more reliable partner than Mr Netanyahu !
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  #438  
Old 14.02.2010, 14:44
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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The peace deal you possibly have in mind was that scandalous Barak-Clinton "offer" which had the following points
> "Palestine" divided into several non-connected chunks
> "Palestine" not even reaching the Jordan River on a single point
> "Palestine" not including any percent of Arab East Jerusalem
-
No, "peace" was rejected by Israel and the USA
-
Anti-Semitism is a term out of the 19th century and the early and middle part of the 20th century, when the only Semites in Europe were the Jews. The term however is complete rubbish if used in regard to the conflict between the Semitic/Germanic Jews the the Semitic Arabs. The correct terms are "anti-Judaism" and "anti-Israelism" , and this is not semantics but simply common sense

You might want to look up the facts on that summit before you make statements like that.Rather than going through each point you got wrong I'll just give you the wiki link:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ca...mmit#Territory

While I agree that antisemitism is a rather inane term the dictionary still defines it as such:


discrimination against or prejudice or hostility toward Jews.
  #439  
Old 14.02.2010, 15:02
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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You might want to look up the facts on that summit before you make statements like that.Rather than going through each point you got wrong I'll just give you the wiki link:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ca...mmit#Territory

While I agree that antisemitism is a rather inane term the dictionary still defines it as such:


discrimination against or prejudice or hostility toward Jews.
Most European dictionaries are based on a European tradition, so that I am not interested in your dictionary, BUT simply say that the term anti-semitism if used in the Middle East is nonsense. At the other hand, French anti-semites are clear in the hate against Arabs and Jews. THIS is why the Supreme Rabbi of Paris, an outstanding personality, managed to bring Jews and Arabs in France together in regard to joint resistance against Anti-Semitism and the Anti-Semites who are a serious danger to BOTH Jews and Arabs.


I do not need to read about the Barak-Clinton "plan" again. It was absolute rubbish. And no chance to get any improvements as both Messrs Barak and Clinton were clear about.

A few days before, the media had news about quite a different "Clinton peace plan", but that simply disappeared, and Bill Clinton, otherwise an excellent president, completely failed. Compare it to Camp David I : Jimmy Carter had a variety of ideas at hand, but negotiated and negotiated and negotiated and finally achieved something. THIS is the way to go.
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Old 14.02.2010, 16:17
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Most European dictionaries are based on a European tradition, so that I am not interested in your dictionary, BUT simply say that the term anti-semitism if used in the Middle East is nonsense. At the other hand, French anti-semites are clear in the hate against Arabs and Jews. THIS is why the Supreme Rabbi of Paris, an outstanding personality, managed to bring Jews and Arabs in France together in regard to joint resistance against Anti-Semitism and the Anti-Semites who are a serious danger to BOTH Jews and Arabs.


I do not need to read about the Barak-Clinton "plan" again. It was absolute rubbish. And no chance to get any improvements as both Messrs Barak and Clinton were clear about.

A few days before, the media had news about quite a different "Clinton peace plan", but that simply disappeared, and Bill Clinton, otherwise an excellent president, completely failed. Compare it to Camp David I : Jimmy Carter had a variety of ideas at hand, but negotiated and negotiated and negotiated and finally achieved something. THIS is the way to go.

We were discussing the word anti-semitism in the english language which if I understand correctly is a european language.

You might see it as rubbish but considering the Arabs/ Palestinians already have the larger share of territory in that region despite having lost several wars of aggression on their part.One would assume they would be grateful for what they were offered.You didn't see germany being able to say much about Alsace after they lost the war, did you?
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