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Old 28.04.2010, 09:38
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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Unfortunately, there will never be peace in the Middle East until the state of Israel is utterly destroyed and its Jewish citizens forced to live elsewhere in the world (or murdered, depending upon the degree of lunacy exhibited by its opponents).

... and since that's unlikely to happen any time in the near future, don't hold your breath...

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  #482  
Old 28.04.2010, 11:04
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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Standard teaching of Islam is that Allah allowed the creation of Israel because he was angry with Muslims not behaving according to his laws, and only the complete destruction of Israel will make him happy again.
Do you have a quote for this, or is it just your perception? What you write is actually ilogical since Israel wasn't under Muslim rule during the lifetime of the prophet, so how can God threaten them with its loss??
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  #483  
Old 28.04.2010, 11:10
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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I cannot see there ever being peace in the Middle East.
The Jews and Muslims will never give; it is not in their nature to compromise and they will always hate each other.
The Muslims will get more extreme as they get more powerful.
USA is becoming weaker in the world as China gets stronger. The influence of the USA on the world will therefore weaken in the coming years. With Jews in the major political positions in the USA, their power in the world will be seriously diminished.

The only way you would get the Jews and Muslims to compromise would be if we had a Christian Crusade and invaded the Middle East and Israel and perhaps they would then get together to defend themselves but even that is doubtful

What about the Greeks selling one of their islands to help pay their debts to the Jews as the new Israel?


Sigh!

This is not about Jews against Muslim, It is about Israel against Palestine.

Do you think only the muslim in Palestine are against the colonisation of their land? Again, someone who mixed countries, populations, culture and religion in being Muslim!

If someone comes to you and kick you out of your house and take it to give it to someone else, do you think it will be fair? Will you care which religion the guy is? No, but you might care of which camp he works for.
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  #484  
Old 28.04.2010, 12:11
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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Sigh!

This is not about Jews against Muslim, It is about Israel against Palestine.
A significant minority of Arabs are Christians, and are not at all happy with Israel! So in that sense, you're correct. However, many Muslims do view the existence of Israel (esp. Jewish occupation of Jerusalem) to be an anathema, so in that sense, it is about Jews vs. Muslims. Islamists want the issue resolved by complete destruction, moderates by other (non-violent) means.
  #485  
Old 28.04.2010, 12:19
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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What about the Greeks selling one of their islands to help pay their debts to the Jews as the new Israel?
How about Cyprus instead, killing two birds with one stone?
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  #486  
Old 28.04.2010, 12:22
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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Do you think only the muslim in Palestine are against the colonisation of their land? Again, someone who mixed countries, populations, culture and religion in being Muslim!
You got the colonisation wrong - Arabs occupied Palestine as well as most middle eastern countries. Ask the Copts..
Feel free to prove me wrong and name 3 cities in Palestine founded by Arabs.


btw - The web petition is by French speaking Jews outside Switzerland. what does it have to do with this forum and why is it not in the Israel/Palestine thread ?
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Old 28.04.2010, 12:25
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Re: European jewish call for reason

I disagree. Its about occupation and land. Its the same reason Islamic radicals hate the US. Its about US presence (military bases, etc.) in the Arab world, not about religion.

However that is not to say religion has no part to play in this (ie Jerusalem). But even that has to do with occupation. It would go a long way if the old city in Jerusalem became an independant religious zone, but I dont see Israel willing to give up that bit of rock.
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Old 28.04.2010, 12:34
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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You got the colonisation wrong - Arabs occupied Palestine as well as most middle eastern countries. Ask the Copts..
Feel free to prove me wrong and name 3 cities in Palestine founded by Arabs.


btw - The web petition is by French speaking Jews outside Switzerland. what does it have to do with this forum and why is it not in the Israel/Palestine thread ?
it's in off-topi section. The fact that Ruth Dreifuss signed the call makes the topic relevant enough for Switzerland as she was member of the federal government.

Ok besides that... what is your suggestion on the topic. What is your solution? Why do you think this call is bad? Make a constructive contribution.
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Old 28.04.2010, 12:46
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Re: European jewish call for reason

Dougal's Breakfast is saying ;"Unfortunately, there will never be peace in the Middle East until the state of Israel is utterly destroyed and its Jewish citizens forced to live elsewhere in the world (or murdered, depending upon the degree of lunacy exhibited by its opponents)."
I am wondering Who is killing to him? Or who are destroying to whom?
  #490  
Old 28.04.2010, 12:52
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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Sigh!

This is not about Jews against Muslim, It is about Israel against Palestine.

That explains the five other countries that have attacked Israel then..
  #491  
Old 28.04.2010, 12:58
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Re: European jewish call for reason

"No one has ever washed a rented car" - The "owners" of the conflict have to resolve it.

The conflict is between Israelis and Arabs - they are the ones that have to solve it - not EU, US or China.

Applying pressure on the sides will not lead to a solution.
"Saving the Israelis/Arabs from themselves" will also fail.
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Old 28.04.2010, 13:01
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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Everyone seem to forget that it already happened in History that Jews, Muslims and Christians lived together peacefully more than 500years during the andalusian time in the middle age. This is a proof that it's possible.
LOL Spanish territory occupied in war by Islamic rulers? WTF BBQ really?
Neutral history much? Wiki-

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The Visigothic era came to an abrupt end when the Umayyad conquest of Hispania by the Umayyad general Tariq ibn Ziyad, an Islamic Berber, conquered Visigothic Hispania in 711.[13] Tariq is known in Spanish history and legend as Tariq el Tuerto ("Tariq the One-eyed"). The Muslim conquest—by the conquest by the Umayyad Caliphate—of the Iberian Peninsula in 711–718 marked the collapse of Visigothic rule and the establishment of the Islamic Empire era. Andalusian culture was fundamentally influenced by over half a millennium of rule by many Muslim caliphates and emirates. In this period, the name "Al-Andalus" was applied to a much larger area than the present Andalusia, and in some periods it referred to nearly the entire Iberian peninsula.
  #493  
Old 28.04.2010, 13:06
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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You got the colonisation wrong - Arabs occupied Palestine as well as most middle eastern countries. Ask the Copts..
Feel free to prove me wrong and name 3 cities in Palestine founded by Arabs.

btw - The web petition is by French speaking Jews outside Switzerland. what does it have to do with this forum and why is it not in the Israel/Palestine thread ?
it's in off-topi section. The fact that Ruth Dreifuss signed the call makes the topic relevant enough for Switzerland as she was member of the federal government.
Don't forget the First Zionist Congress, held in Basel in 1897!

Whomever "owned" or occupied Palestine before the Palestinians is somewhat irrelevant and a red herring.

There was moderate peace there before the Zionist movement took hold and the British (because they were instrumental in allowing Israel to happen) stood back and encouraged the formation of the state of Israel to the direct detriment of Palestinians.

It's been said before, but I'll repeat it: the irony of how Jews were treated during the WWII vs. how they are treating Palestinians appears to be lost on them and most of the world.

Or a "milder" example: how the world was shocked by SA's apartheid system but seem oblivious to Israel's not dissimilar activities.
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Old 28.04.2010, 13:08
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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"No one has ever washed a rented car" - The "owners" of the conflict have to resolve it.

The conflict is between Israelis and Arabs - they are the ones that have to solve it - not EU, US or China.

Applying pressure on the sides will not lead to a solution.
"Saving the Israelis/Arabs from themselves" will also fail.
you know that this is far far far from truth.... do you really think Israel would economically and military survive without the help of the US? The US are deeply involved in the process, does not make sense to keep them out.
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Old 28.04.2010, 13:09
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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LOL Spanish territory occupied in war by Islamic rulers? WTF BBQ really?
Neutral history much? Wiki-
Scribble, i did not get your point. Can you elaborate?
  #496  
Old 28.04.2010, 13:12
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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"No one has ever washed a rented car" - The "owners" of the conflict have to resolve it.

The conflict is between Israelis and Arabs - they are the ones that have to solve it - not EU, US or China.

Applying pressure on the sides will not lead to a solution.
"Saving the Israelis/Arabs from themselves" will also fail.
Sorry, I think outside pressure will be the only way this conflict may be resolved. Israel and Palestine are too small to survive in isolation. If the EU or the US were to put real pressure on Israel, negotiations might go differently. The same goes for Palestine if they were to get a two state solution.
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Old 28.04.2010, 13:21
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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Don't forget the First Zionist Congress, held in Basel in 1897!

Whomever "owned" or occupied Palestine before the Palestinians is somewhat irrelevant and a red herring.

There was moderate peace there before the Zionist movement took hold and the British (because they were instrumental in allowing Israel to happen) stood back and encouraged the formation of the state of Israel to the direct detriment of Palestinians.

It's been said before, but I'll repeat it: the irony of how Jews were treated during the WWII vs. how they are treating Palestinians appears to be lost on them and most of the world.

Or a "milder" example: how the world was shocked by SA's apartheid system but seem oblivious to Israel's not dissimilar activities.
same old rhetoric. This has been discussed in another thread already.
  #498  
Old 28.04.2010, 13:24
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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same old rhetoric. This has been discussed in another thread already.
And your point is?
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Old 28.04.2010, 13:25
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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And your point is?

That I'm not going to get started.
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Old 28.04.2010, 13:27
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Re: European jewish call for reason

What did Andalucia and the Levant have in common when they were both at peace?

Oh yes... that was it... the Muslims were top dog and got to call the shots, whether the indigenous Jews and Christians of those regions liked it or not...

Context, context, context.

Now where's the brake in this train, anyway?
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