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Old 28.04.2010, 18:46
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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A "Palestinian", on the other hand, is forbidden from even applying for citizenship. As I understand it, this rule is in place throughout the Arab League (although I'm quite prepared to be corrected on this matter).
Jordan is the only exception. However I'm sure you know the reason why Arab nations don't want to give them citizenship, or indeed why many Palestinians don't wish it either. Quite simply its because by accepting citizenship they weaken their case for a right of return. Israel and the UNHCR/UNWRA has an obligation (respected or not) towards the generations of Palestinians made Stateless post 1948, but an Egyptian with a Palestinian grandfather has effectively given up their claim.

Its no more, or less perverse than successful, integrated American and European Jews deciding to give up everything to live a Wild West existence in some frontier Israeli settlement.
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Old 28.04.2010, 18:47
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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The solution is Israel ceasing to exist as a state. OR for it to stop colonizing more land.
Israel has not colonised any fresh land since 1967. On the contrary, they have withdrawn from quite a few areas. I don't follow your reasoning.
  #563  
Old 28.04.2010, 18:47
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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They occupied those territories in response to an unprovoked war that was started by their Arab neighbours. If you are prepared to start a war, you must be prepared to accept the consequences of defeat.

By the same line of argument you could say that the Polish posession of Silesia is disproportionate. But nobody except a bunch of stupid extremeists argues that way any more.
Please, PLEASE! Unprovoked? Tens of thousands of Europeans show up and tell the locals to go away. That is a provocation by any standards. The locals were provoked.
  #564  
Old 28.04.2010, 18:49
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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Israel has not colonised any fresh land since 1967. On the contrary, they have withdrawn from quite a few areas. I don't follow your reasoning.
You are clearly uninformed. They FROZE certain settlements but have continued with others. They have been colonizing non-stop.
Please, an intelligent well informed answer would do better.
  #565  
Old 28.04.2010, 18:49
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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Israel bombs schools, has incursions.
Well, if people insist on siting rocket launchers next to schools...

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It's called ethnic cleansing. Full stop.
If you insist...

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The palestinians have been extremely flexible but Israel refuses to accept that they aren't the "chosen people" and that they can't have it all.
They're not too fond on the rockets and mortars that keep getting fired at them, either.
  #566  
Old 28.04.2010, 18:51
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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The Indian refugees from Uganda who arrived in Britain in 1972 were pretty different from the pie-and-chips eating people who received them, yet they've managed to integrate into British society, because they were allowed to.
Except- there was that little rule- teh virginity tests that Maggie Thatcher introduced. Then there was the whole - well you are notfully british thing, this affected my sister. Some of my brothers and sisters were born in Kampala Uganda and hypocritically as socailists lived a wonderful colonial life until the Mau Mau kicked up. Anyway, Maggie thatcher tried to change the law to stem the influx of those who were formerly colonized, any british passport holding person born in the ex-colonies could not pass their British nationality on to their children, unless the children were born in the UK. Unfortunately she forgot about people like my siblings who were born to British parents working for the British govt helping to maintain the colonies. So my siblings born in Africa, would have to return to the UK to have their kids inorder for those children to retain British nationality.
Then hwat happens if those children have no other nationality other than British- they become stateless! Of course they had to careful reword it- so that it read in other words all of those except our own people.

Yes yes, there was never a problem with allowing them to integration.

Then there is the Hong Kong Chinese..... anyone care for a British (but really Hong Kong Chinese) passport?
  #567  
Old 28.04.2010, 18:52
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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Please, PLEASE! Unprovoked? Tens of thousands of Europeans show up and tell the locals to go away. That is a provocation by any standards. The locals were provoked.
Define locals.

On the one hand we have the argument that Palestinans can't go and live in Syrian or Jordan for example because they are a separate nation. And yet countries like Syrian or Jodan felt they had the right to invade Israel because they were defending their people. Strange.

I agree that the initial establishment of Israel was questionable. But in what the Arabs did after that they thoroughly destroyed the moral high ground they think they still have.
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Old 28.04.2010, 18:53
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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yada yada yada offtopic rubbish yada yada yada
Have you been to Leicester recently?
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  #569  
Old 28.04.2010, 18:53
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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Well, if people insist on siting rocket launchers next to schools...



If you insist...



They're not too fond on the rockets and mortars that keep getting fired at them, either.
If someone planted a colony on your farm, killed half of your family, told you that you were inferior because you weren't jewish what would you do, send them cookies? What do you expect from a GENERATION of people living in constant terror because some Hungarian atheist decided to exploit a religion and ship boatloads of eastern european socialists to the middle east?
  #570  
Old 28.04.2010, 18:54
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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If someone planted a colony on your farm, killed half of your family, told you that you were inferior because you weren't jewish what would you do, send them cookies? What do you expect from a GENERATION of people living in constant terror because some Hungarian atheist decided to exploit a religion and ship boatloads of eastern european socialists to the middle east?
What?

Oh... never mind.
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Old 28.04.2010, 18:57
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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You are clearly uninformed. They FROZE certain settlements but have continued with others. They have been colonizing non-stop.
Please, an intelligent well informed answer would do better.
What about the withdrawal from Sinai then? That's a much bigger chunk of land than a couple of terrapins in the suburbs of Jersusalem.
  #572  
Old 28.04.2010, 18:59
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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What?

Oh... never mind.
My point is, if you terrorize a people for long enough they're going to start firing crappy katiusha rockets which the Iranians were tired of holding.

The Palestinians had their land taken away and have been terrorized ever since. Period. Unless of course you are a delusional Zionist who thinks everyone else belongs to an inferior being.
  #573  
Old 28.04.2010, 18:59
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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Except- there was that little rule- teh virginity tests that Maggie Thatcher introduced. Then there was the whole - well you are notfully british thing, this affected my sister. Some of my brothers and sisters were born in Kampala Uganda and hypocritically as socailists lived a wonderful colonial life until the Mau Mau kicked up. Anyway, Maggie thatcher tried to change the law to stem the influx of those who were formerly colonized, any british passport holding person born in the ex-colonies could not pass their British nationality on to their children, unless the children were born in the UK. Unfortunately she forgot about people like my siblings who were born to British parents working for the British govt helping to maintain the colonies. So my siblings born in Africa, would have to return to the UK to have their kids inorder for those children to retain British nationality.
Then hwat happens if those children have no other nationality other than British- they become stateless! Of course they had to careful reword it- so that it read in other words all of those except our own people.

Yes yes, there was never a problem with allowing them to integration.

Then there is the Hong Kong Chinese..... anyone care for a British (but really Hong Kong Chinese) passport?
Okay, so you are suggesting Maggie ought to have let more of them in. Fair enough. Now by the same reasoning, why shouldn't Morocco, Saudi, Jordan, Iran etc have let in more Palestinians?
  #574  
Old 28.04.2010, 19:01
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Re: European jewish call for reason

If I remember right, it was Harry Truman who signed Israel into being. Does that count as US help?
  #575  
Old 28.04.2010, 19:03
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Re: European jewish call for reason

They don't colonize- that's such an emotive word, they just settle things with tanks and bulldozers and armed military back-up. Think of it as land reclamation - Zionist style- cleansing the earth. The Promised land. the promised people, the guilt of western nations, appeased by Arab land.

Give to Caeser what belongs to Caeser, rules, governments and borders may be imposed, but thankfully there are still many Jews, Christians and Muslims who have a conscience and they are the ones that will sort this out.
  #576  
Old 28.04.2010, 19:03
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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What about the withdrawal from Sinai then? That's a much bigger chunk of land than a couple of terrapins in the suburbs of Jersusalem.
The Sinai is Egypt, my friend. And even if the intire peninsula were Palestine, why should Palestine give up Jerusalem? They've already given of West Jerusalem.
  #577  
Old 28.04.2010, 19:05
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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My point is, if you terrorize a people for long enough they're going to start firing crappy katiusha rockets which the Iranians were tired of holding.

The Palestinians had their land taken away and have been terrorized ever since. Period. Unless of course you are a delusional Zionist who thinks everyone else belongs to an inferior being.
It depends who those people are.

If you're facing a religion and a culture that wants to overrun and rule the entire world, it would seem strange to me that they cannot tolerate another culture taking over a very little bit of what was theirs. It would seem to me that they cannot accept on themselves what they want to do to others.
  #578  
Old 28.04.2010, 19:10
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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It depends who those people are.

If you're facing a religion and a culture that wants to overrun and rule the entire world, it would seem strange to me that they cannot tolerate another culture taking over a very little bit of what was theirs. It would seem to me that they cannot accept on themselves what they want to do to others.
OK, I'll make it very simple for you to understand. Israel doesn't want a little piece of Muslim land. Israel wants Palestine, a land belonging to Palestinians who happen to be Muslims, Christians, Jews and Druze.
Palestine has already given more than HALF of it's land to Israel. Actually, it was FORCED to do so.

Also, it's ridiculous to assume that somehow Palestinians are religious fundamentalists who want to rule the world.
  #579  
Old 28.04.2010, 19:10
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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The Sinai is Egypt, my friend. And even if the intire peninsula were Palestine, why should Palestine give up Jerusalem? They've already given of West Jerusalem.
Where did I say they should give up Jerusalem? You are putting words into my mouth that I didn't say.
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Old 28.04.2010, 19:13
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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Okay, so you are suggesting Maggie ought to have let more of them in. Fair enough. Now by the same reasoning, why shouldn't Morocco, Saudi, Jordan, Iran etc have let in more Palestinians?
This is twisting things around the Arabs did not colonize parts of the Palestine as the British did with Africa and India so they do not need to let the Palestinians in and foot the bill for the refugees, even though actusally if you look at the statitics, they have welcomed them in and are paying a hefty price. It is Israel with the help of GB and US that kicked the Palestinians out. It is thier problmethey need to find a solution for these displaced people, which incidentally are not just Muslims but include Christians too.

But my point was that the UK and especially Maggie tried to stop the influx of those from the colonies who had been indoctrinated to think of the UK as the motherland. Maggie represented a UK motherland that abondoned her ethnic offspring! The Arab countries never colonised the Palestine the Zionists did.
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