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  #721  
Old 30.04.2010, 14:07
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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So why does Israel get all the attention? Is it because the nationalists in this case are Jewish?
No. (Well not in my case.)
  #722  
Old 30.04.2010, 14:13
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Nope, your opinion isn't silly, it's actually correct (on international law). The reason why it doesn't exist at all is because it favours the strong, thus the situation is exactly the same as if it never existed in the first place, but when we take evil people like our man Radovan, instead of killing or imprisoning him we put him on "trial" which does wonders to make us feel more civlised. The situation with international law is that America (and Britain, France, Russia, China etc) does exactly what it (they) want...much like they would without international law.

Of course maintaining the status quo won't work, we need managable change, but harping on about weird theoretical "right and wrong" won't help or change anything. For the reasons stated (by me) previously, the "Right" of Return can and will never happen. This is fact and the Palestinians know this. Therefore the only reason a Palestinian will ever mention it is to be obstinate or to use it as a negotiating starting point.

The reality (again, forgetting about who is right and who is wrong and principles and all that stuff) is that locationally the Palestinians aren't that hard done by. Almost all of them are within 40 miles of where their grandfathers grew up - I've commuted further than that on a daily basis. If where they lived was safe and rich and beautiful they wouldn't be complaining and there is no reason why the Gaza strip should look remarkably different from any other Mediterranean coastline. We need to forget about the past and look forward. Oh, and the second most ridiculous preoccupation of the region (besides religion) is land. So passe. They should all take a field trip to Macao or Monaco to see what can be done with a couple miles of sandy beach.





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Well the stupid alternative is to continue as it is and for Israel to sanction violence and discrimination against a group of people who have as much right to be where they are as the Israelis do

Ask Karadzic about international law. I'm sure he's feeling a little nervous right now about it. You may believe that it doesn't work and I would perhaps argue that you are right but there is International law but it typically favours strong nations and those that have won the battles.

But that's just my silly opinion.
  #723  
Old 30.04.2010, 14:38
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

So whats the best case scenarios for all concerned.

Israel to concede the West Bank and Gaza to the Palestinians and to allow them to create their own country and the right to develop international relations with who they like? Israel to keep Jerusalem? End to government sanctioned violence and terrorist acts?

Tell me what Israel should offer for Palestinians to believe in any kind of future.

may be the first steps could be
  • The Israeli government had no "selfish strategic or economic" interest in either the West Bank or Gaza
  • The Israeli government would uphold the right of the people of Occupied territories to decide their future
  • The Israeli government and Palestinian authorities would work for an agreement among all the people of the territories of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank
  • The Israeli government recognised that "Palestinian self-determination required the agreement and consent of a majority of the people of Israel and the Palestine territories.
  • A separate Palestinian state could only be brought about by persuasion.
  • Peace must involve a permanent end to the use of, or support for, violence.
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  #724  
Old 30.04.2010, 14:45
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

portsmouth68's what we type here will make zero difference to the conflict. I gave a perfect solution few posts back so go and get it implemented
  #725  
Old 30.04.2010, 15:36
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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portsmouth68's what we type here will make zero difference to the conflict. I gave a perfect solution few posts back so go and get it implemented
Trouble with that solution is that its classified all Israeli's as Jew which they are not (76% of the population). Perhaps you think that the other 24% don't count!
  #726  
Old 30.04.2010, 16:03
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Trouble with that solution is that its classified all Israeli's as Jew which they are not (76% of the population). Perhaps you think that the other 24% don't count!
They will be moving to the newly created Islamic country as I stated before. Israel will become 100% Jewish then. Maybe some extra land would be given by Israel and Jordan to the new Palestinian state too. The statistically insignificant number of non-Muslim Arabs can choose which state they want to live in.
  #727  
Old 30.04.2010, 16:07
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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They will be moving to the newly created Islamic country as I stated before. Israel will become 100% Jewish then. Maybe some extra land would be given by Israel and Jordan to the new Palestinian state too. The statistically insignificant number of non-Muslim Arabs can choose which state they want to live in.
does the "non-muslim arabs" category include mizrahi and sepharadi?
  #728  
Old 30.04.2010, 16:39
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

I am talking about people from current Israel + Palestinian areas only (IP)

My 4 point plan-

1- Jews from IP go to Israel (they already are there)
2- Muslim Arabs from IP go to Independent Islamic republic of Palestine
3- Non Muslim and Non Jewish Arabs ie. Christians etc get free choice to move to Palestine or Israel.

Once the land/people transfer is completed then obviously Israel and Independent Palestine can bring whoever they want into their territory.
After that any land grab, provocation or attack from any side will result in heavy punishment from me.

4- Jerusalem aka Pinkcity --> Only faithless people + lesbians and gays can hang there and party. All the religious buildings to be turned into nightclubs and bars. We could shift the religious buildings to respective countries using modern engineering methods if you insist.

I think it is fair no?
  #729  
Old 30.04.2010, 16:43
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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I am talking about people from current Israel + Palestinian areas only (IP)

My 4 point plan-

1- Jews from IP go to Israel (they already are there)
2- Muslim Arabs from IP go to Independent Islamic republic of Palestine
3- Non Muslim and Non Jewish Arabs ie. Christians etc get free choice to move to Palestine or Israel.

Once the land/people transfer is completed then obviously Israel and Independent Palestine can bring whoever they want into their territory.
After that any land grab, provocation or attack from any side will result in heavy punishment from me.

4- Jerusalem aka Pinkcity --> Only faithless people + lesbians and gays can hang there and party. All the religious buildings to be turned into nightclubs and bars. We could shift the religious buildings to respective countries using modern engineering methods if you insist.

I think it is fair no?
I like number 4!

For the rest they must return to the 1967 borders.
  #730  
Old 30.04.2010, 16:49
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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I like number 4!

For the rest they must return to the 1967 borders.
You want a solution or just keep fighting? 1967 border ain't gonna happen.
  #731  
Old 30.04.2010, 16:54
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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You want a solution or just keep fighting? 1967 border ain't gonna happen.
It can if they agree with land swaps.
  #732  
Old 30.04.2010, 17:00
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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It can if they agree with land swaps.
Look Hoppy it is equivalent of Federer demanding Nadal to hand the titles he lost against him back. Either way have a nice weekend my Arab and Jewish friends :-) Oh! and also Persian Hoppy LOL
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  #733  
Old 30.04.2010, 17:47
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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...The statistically insignificant number of non-Muslim Arabs can choose which state they want to live in.
About 95% are Muslim, so it depends whether you're going for 5% significance or 1% significant. Still, it's tens of thousands of people.

Before Israel came (back?) into existence, apparently it was 40%. But the Christians largely made up the middle class, and therefore were the most equipped to emigrate. It is kind of interesting that those who could emigrate, did so. Perhaps if the surrounding arab nations had allowed the poorer Palestinians to settle, the problems would be less severe.
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  #734  
Old 30.04.2010, 23:53
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Probably not as Sephardim are Jews of Spanish origin. Very few Jews now speak Arabic as their main or mother language and that's the only way to truly define an Arab.
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does the "non-muslim arabs" category include mizrahi and sepharadi?
  #735  
Old 01.05.2010, 01:34
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Very few Jews now speak Arabic as their main or mother language and that's the only way to truly define an Arab.
Really? Why do you say that? I thought all Arabs spoke Arabic, whether they are Muslim, Jewish or Christian...

If Arab Jews don't speak Arabic, or a Jewish Arab dialect, what so they speak?

Mrs. T

Last edited by Mrs T; 01.05.2010 at 01:38. Reason: to add a question
  #736  
Old 01.05.2010, 08:47
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

The owneship of the terriory of Israel is all about principlea and power; nothing else!

Lets face it; there is nothing in Isreal. A bit of dried scrub land, lacking any resources and a shortage of water.

I don't really understand why anyone would want it except Jordan that is almost land locked.

If it wasn't for the Jewish power in USA and world polictical positions; the people and country would have been obliterated by now.
  #737  
Old 01.05.2010, 09:17
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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If it wasn't for the Jewish power in USA and world polictical positions; the people and country would have been obliterated by now.

Controversial as always but not too far from the truth.
  #738  
Old 01.05.2010, 10:07
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Really? Why do you say that? I thought all Arabs spoke Arabic, whether they are Muslim, Jewish or Christian...

If Arab Jews don't speak Arabic, or a Jewish Arab dialect, what so they speak?

Mrs. T
There are jews living in morocco and tunisia that still speak arabic and hebrew.
Among the arab jews living in israel, it's mainly the older generation that can still speak arabic, the younger generation speak hebrew only.
  #739  
Old 01.05.2010, 11:37
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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You want a solution or just keep fighting? 1967 border ain't gonna happen.
Then the war will never end .
  #740  
Old 01.05.2010, 11:47
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Then the war will never end .
Do I look bothered? Did you really think it was going to end otherwise? You think if 1967 positions were agreed then that would be the end of all the fighting? Don't be so naive. The fighting will continue for a very long time as humans are dumb!
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