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  #741  
Old 01.05.2010, 13:28
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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There are jews living in morocco and tunisia that still speak arabic and hebrew.
Among the arab jews living in israel, it's mainly the older generation that can still speak arabic, the younger generation speak hebrew only.
Oh, ok, I see now, I thought you were talking about all Arab Jews, I see now that you were talking about Israeli Arab Jews. It's understandable and logical that they speak Hebrew now.

While speaking the language is the principal defining factor of an Arab, it's not the only one and I wonder if these Jews still consider themselves as Arabs ?

And if they don't consider themselves as Arabs, do they consider themselves Israelis?

Would it be fair to say that an Israeli should be defined in a similar way as an Arab? i.e. Language, culture, politics etc... ? or is the principal defining factor religion?

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  #742  
Old 01.05.2010, 13:58
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Oh, ok, I see now, I thought you were talking about all Arab Jews, I see now that you were talking about Israeli Arab Jews. It's understandable and logical that they speak Hebrew now.

While speaking the language is the principal defining factor of an Arab, it's not the only one and I wonder if these Jews still consider themselves as Arabs ?

And if they don't consider themselves as Arabs, do they consider themselves Israelis?

Would it be fair to say that an Israeli should be defined in a similar way as an Arab? i.e. Language, culture, politics etc... ? or is the principal defining factor religion?

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Mrs T
Very fundamental and interesting questions Mrs T. Like you I don't think that a group can only be defined by the language and religion. It's a set of things that when combined define roughly a cultural group. Many countries of the mediterranean area share common custom that go beyond language and religion. I only have some observations that could start a discussion:

- sepharadi and ashkenazi jews share same religion but have different custom, and they don't always mix. I heard many times sepharadi mothers insisting on their son to not marry an ashkenazi.

- in morocco and tunisia, sepharadi jews and muslim arabs are some times difficult to distinguish. The way they cook, music, dressing, wedding rituals etc.. are very similar.

- contribution of sepharadi jews to arabic music in north africa is huge...so muslims and jews share the same "artistic" sense.

Maybe others can elaborate further or give a different opinion. The challenge is to answer: what is culture?
A first attempt from me would be to say that culture is a local answer to a global question. For example getting men and women together is a global need among humans but the way we do it is specific to each region and therefore defines the local culture.
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  #743  
Old 01.05.2010, 14:32
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Yes, I have to say, I love these kinds of discussions For example, is someone less African because they are white?

I suspect that as far as our Jewish-Arab friends in Isreal are concerned, it might be like North African Arab emigrants in Europe, the parents, who were born in NA feel differently to the children who were born in Europe...

And as for Sepharadi mothers insisting on their son to not marry an ashkenazi, you should hear Catholic mothers talk about prodestants!

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  #744  
Old 01.05.2010, 21:06
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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If it wasn't for the Jewish power in USA and world polictical positions; the people and country would have been obliterated by now.
Now where did I leave that copy of the Protocols...?
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  #745  
Old 03.05.2010, 15:37
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Oh, ok, I see now, I thought you were talking about all Arab Jews, I see now that you were talking about Israeli Arab Jews. It's understandable and logical that they speak Hebrew now.

While speaking the language is the principal defining factor of an Arab, it's not the only one and I wonder if these Jews still consider themselves as Arabs ?

And if they don't consider themselves as Arabs, do they consider themselves Israelis?

Would it be fair to say that an Israeli should be defined in a similar way as an Arab? i.e. Language, culture, politics etc... ? or is the principal defining factor religion?

Best

Mrs T
When I was in Israel I was staying with a family of Arab Israelis.

They were extremely kind and generous people.

They also insisted on being calld Israelis rather than Arab Israelis or anything like that.

They were all Israeil citizens and spoke fluent Hebrew although they spoke Arabic at home and with other Arab families.

They were Christians.

I learnt that whereas Jewish Israelis have to do military service, Arab Israelis are exempt, probably to avoid the potential conflict of having to fight against other Arabs in defence of Israel. However, both the sons of this family volunteered to join the Israeli army and when I asked the about this they were surprised as they considered this the only proper thing to do.

This is an aspect of the Arab/Israeli conflict that doesn't get much attention in the international news but to me it shows that the path of violence and extremism is not the only one that is open to Arabs living in that part of the world.
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  #746  
Old 03.05.2010, 15:41
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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All the religious buildings to be turned into nightclubs and bars.
Pray tell me my dear sir. Are these "night clubs" the Swiss or the English variety?
  #747  
Old 03.05.2010, 16:06
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Pray tell me my dear sir. Are these "night clubs" the Swiss or the English variety?
I think that keeping Jerusalem a non-sectarian free-love zone would be a good thing. They need a massive peace and love-in festivals, without the drugs of course.
  #748  
Old 03.05.2010, 22:56
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Meanwhile In Hamastan : "we know where your kids are, so be careful what you say":

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010...-press-freedom

Quote : "It was day one of my incarceration in Gaza, where I was held in solitary confinement, denied books to read and a pen and paper, at times placed within earshot of violent torture, and threatened with imminent death several times."

And this was done to a pro palestinian reporter...
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  #749  
Old 04.05.2010, 21:49
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

This is just a follow-up of the original post about Jcall: jews calling Israel for reason.
Here is a recent article from Haaretz analyzing the Jcall and JStreet movement.
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  #750  
Old 04.05.2010, 21:59
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Whether you agree with Jcall/Jstreet or not - both organizations lack grassroot support and influence on Governments.

When antisemitic attacks are almost a daily occurance and when an Israeli diplomat is attacked in Manchester while the BBC didn't even report it (maybe a dog bites man situation) - they are irrelevant.
  #751  
Old 04.05.2010, 22:06
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Meanwhile In Hamastan : "we know where your kids are, so be careful what you say":

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010...-press-freedom

Quote : "It was day one of my incarceration in Gaza, where I was held in solitary confinement, denied books to read and a pen and paper, at times placed within earshot of violent torture, and threatened with imminent death several times."

And this was done to a pro palestinian reporter...
And many many thanks to "ODIN" this doe`s not happened in Israelis jail
  #752  
Old 04.05.2010, 22:20
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Whether you agree with Jcall/Jstreet or not - both organizations lack grassroot support and influence on Governments.

When antisemitic attacks are almost a daily occurance and when an Israeli diplomat is attacked in Manchester while the BBC didn't even report it (maybe a dog bites man situation) - they are irrelevant.
Are the two sentences above supposed to bear any relevance to each other?

I live in the US in an area where there are many Jews. I think that at about 1/3 of our friends are Jewish or of Jewish descent, the Jewish holidays are observed at the school. So I can tell you that at least where I live, your first statement is incorrect. They are very liberal and the majority are definitely not Netanyahu supporters.

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J Street embraced by Obama administration, but not in Israel




http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...-israel-1.5948
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  #753  
Old 04.05.2010, 22:32
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Whether you agree with Jcall/Jstreet or not - both organizations lack grassroot support and influence on Governments.

When antisemitic attacks are almost a daily occurance and when an Israeli diplomat is attacked in Manchester while the BBC didn't even report it (maybe a dog bites man situation) - they are irrelevant.
1) i still believe that important decisions are initiated by people not politicians and governments.

2) i condemn all attacks against innocent people. Every 30sec a baby dies on this world yet it's not in the newspaper. I think it's unfair but that's life. But that should not prevent us, you or others to fight against the injustice or better to fight for peace and wellbeing of everyone.
  #754  
Old 04.05.2010, 23:06
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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1) i still believe that important decisions are initiated by people not politicians and governments.
Name 3 important decisions made by people in the last 3 years. we all have our opinions, but only very few have the power to implement them

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2) i condemn all attacks against innocent people. Every 30sec a baby dies on this world yet it's not in the newspaper. I think it's unfair but that's life. But that should not prevent us, you or others to fight against the injustice or better to fight for peace and wellbeing of everyone.
This thread is about Israel and Palestine. Obvious truisms should be posted somewhere else.
  #755  
Old 04.05.2010, 23:39
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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The first anti-Jewish pogroms occurered in ancient Babylon or maybe even in ancient Egypt. So maybe we should be looking at taking lands rom Egypt or Iraq?
Work in progress since 1891,Ben gurion did the sod turning
  #756  
Old 05.05.2010, 00:09
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Re: European jewish call for reason

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I'm not so good at history myself I'm a bit more simple. So is the fact that israel and its neighbours bomb the living daylights out of one another britains fault or not ?
Sort off
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  #757  
Old 05.05.2010, 00:47
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Now where did I leave that copy of the Protocols...?
no DB! Cashboy is right. Israel is still around because of the Zionist conspiracy! They control everything.

It simply cannot happen that a country is formed with hardworking, US admiring people with ridiculous work ethics who become English speaking engineers and scientists to the same standards as the US equivalent but earn only half as much. There is no way that companies like Microsoft and Intel would cotton onto this and invest billions to create a scientific and technological heartland in the middle east. And then what really couldn't happen is that a government, sensing it's neighbour weren't the friendliest, invest one of the highest percentage GDP anywhere into their military. No. This is just crazy talk. The only logical explanation is a Zionist conspiracy. Bastards.
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  #758  
Old 05.05.2010, 02:03
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Name 3 important decisions made by people in the last 3 years. we all have our opinions, but only very few have the power to implement them
I campaigned for Obama and he got elected and today I got this:

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Thanks so much for signing the petition demanding a criminal investigation into Goldman Sachs' actions.
Big news broke over the weekend

: US Attorneys in New York are in fact opening a criminal investigation. Last Thursday we joined our friends at the Progressive Congressional Campaign Committee and key members of Congress to deliver more than 140,000 signatures demanding a criminal probe of Goldman to the Justice Department. Check out this video from the event—it includes a special message for you from progressive champion, Representative Marcy Kaptur at the end!


Your voice was instrumental in elevating the outrage that Americans everywhere are feeling about Wall Street's recklessness. You helped make clear that in our country, no one on Wall Street should be "too big for jail."
Thanks for all you do.
Is that what you meant?
  #759  
Old 05.05.2010, 02:15
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Forgiev me economist for borrowind your words but applaying them to a different country.

Iran is still around because of a Muslim conspiracy. They control everything.

It simply cannot happen that a country is formed with hardworking, US admiring people with ridiculous work ethics who become English speaking engineers and scientists to the same standards as the US equivalent but earn only a quarter as much or less. There is no way that Chinese and Russian companies would cotton onto this and invest billions to promote a scientific and technological heartland in the middle east. And then what really couldn't happen is that a government, sensing it's neighbour weren't the friendliest, invest in a nuclear program ,missile shield shahab missiles etc. Even after they have had their democratically elected government overthrown in a CIA imposed coup twice No. This is just crazy talk. The only logical exone of the highest percentage GDP planation is a Muslim conspiracy. Bastards.
  #760  
Old 05.05.2010, 02:21
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

<hic> well sid, hoppay <hic> you show cenomononomosisto what for! <hic> he knwos nuthin! <hic>
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