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  #901  
Old 19.05.2010, 19:35
hoppy
 
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

There have been a lot of problems concerning, Palestinian goods managed by settlers, marketed as West Bank, when in fact the money goes to Israelis who are robbing the Palestine of its land and produce.

There was also a problem with Olive Oil, but the Fair Trade advocates have managed to curtail the problem somewhat. So to make sure that you are not paying robbers just buy Fair Trade goods.



Quote:
But although the herbs do indeed come from the West Bank, the geographical label does not tell consumers whether they are buying from a Palestinian farmer or from an Israeli settler. Waitrose is one of the British supermarkets selling herbs which they label as coming simply from "the West Bank".
In a statement to the BBC, it confirmed that the imported herbs came from West Bank farms which it described as "Israeli-managed".
"While it is not a legal requirement for us to label where our herbs come from at all, we still choose to do this," the statement said.
"All our herbs from the West Bank are labelled as 'West Bank', in line with the geographical region and EU legislative advice."
Waitrose may be meeting its legal requirement, but Mike Bailey from Oxfam says that it is not good enough.
"The settlements on the West Bank are illegal under international humanitarian law and that creates a lot of problems for the Palestinians that live there.
"Consumers that are buying produce that are grown in illegal settlements need to have that information so that they can make an informed choice."
The Foreign Office seems inclined to agree.
British officials have now tabled a proposal at the European Council, the EU forum for member states, calling for discussion on possible ways to tighten the policing of the rules on import duty and change them on labelling, so that consumers can make "an informed choice between Palestinian goods and settlement goods".
It has become a reflex of journalism and international politics to describe Israeli settlements as illegal under international law.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7708244.stm

The story of Jaffa oranges makes me laugh, Jaffa oranges are Arab, they were adopted and marketed by the Israelis, however when they turned up in Iran there was a public outcry! It reminds me of Shiraz wine, originally cultivated from the vines in Shiraz and immortalized by poets such as Omar Khayam. If only an orange or vine or olive or humus could tell its own story!
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  #902  
Old 19.05.2010, 20:14
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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1) normally it's not your or my business to decide what's happening between a buyer and a seller. But I can imagine that Olives, Olive oil, food delicacies, dates, humus, grapes from WB could be of interest to european markets. It's not up to israel to decide on these transactions.

2) I read that in NYTimes (here is the source)

3) yes you are right. But you know the story instead of giving a fish, teach him how to fish. I think palestinians do work for settlers because often they have no alternatives. They even build houses in new settlements. quite ironic actually.
Exactly, olives, olive oil, dates and grapes are what the West Bank could and according to our TLV cargo agent to some extent already DOES .

Now, the costs in airfreight are such that an aircargo-shipment from the Bodensee area to either TLV or BEY or LCA has about 33% each on the pick-up, the handling and the airfreight itself. If you have to pick up the shipment in Freiburg or in Bellinzona, the cartage can be up to 3 times the actual airfreight airport-to-airport. Up to 30% of the apt-apt costs actually is paid for the security.

Mr Netanyahu has a unique and historic chance for himself and his name in history. If he helps President Abbas to improve the life of people in WestBank and East Jerusalem, the moderate PLO parties will win in the next parliamentary elections, to the detriments of some more stubborn parties inside the PLO as well as to the detriment of Hamas. He of course can stay put and end up as a failure again. He should realize that he only got into power due to the heavy disappointment of many Israelis about Mr Olmert. "Pashosh" may have more insider knowledge about intra-Israeli politics which are in fact of heavy importance for the whole region.

Amazing, amazing, when speaking with Israelis and Lebanese people about NOT-Palestine-conflict related things (economy, culture, traffic, tourism, internal-domestic-politics, etc), you hear many so similar opinions and judgments. The two fairly democratic and fairly open Levante countries, in spite of political problems have so much in common !
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  #903  
Old 20.05.2010, 09:14
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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- if Belgium wants to be "nicer" than Israel with the palestinians it's their problem. It seems you don't like charity.
Belgium is nicer to the palestinians then most Arab countries - it gives them much more charity. you still didnt refute my claim that other countries produce the same products as the WB for a lower price and/or higher quality
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Give the proof or link that he is lying. It seems that everything coming from outside is not reliable for you.
Wollishofener did
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yes big difference between you and me...i don't like to give, but you like to take even what does not belong to you.
What did I take ?
  #904  
Old 22.05.2010, 22:56
hoppy
 
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

The Failure of the American Jewish Establishment

June 10, 2010

by Peter Beinart





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But there is a different Zionist calling, which has never been more desperately relevant. It has its roots in Israel’s Independence Proclamation, which promised that the Jewish state “will be based on the precepts of liberty, justice and peace taught by the Hebrew prophets,” and in the December 1948 letter from Albert Einstein, Hannah Arendt, and others to The New York Times, protesting right-wing Zionist leader Menachem Begin’s visit to the United States after his party’s militias massacred Arab civilians in the village of Deir Yassin. It is a call to recognize that in a world in which Jewish fortunes have radically changed, the best way to memorialize the history of Jewish suffering is through the ethical use of Jewish power.
For several months now, a group of Israeli students has been traveling every Friday to the East Jerusalem neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah, where a Palestinian family named the Ghawis lives on the street outside their home of fifty-three years, from which they were evicted to make room for Jewish settlers. Although repeatedly arrested for protesting without a permit, and called traitors and self-haters by the Israeli right, the students keep coming, their numbers now swelling into the thousands. What if American Jewish organizations brought these young people to speak at Hillel? What if this was the face of Zionism shown to America’s Jewish young? What if the students in Luntz’s focus group had been told that their generation faces a challenge as momentous as any in Jewish history: to save liberal democracy in the only Jewish state on earth?
“Too many years I lived in the warm embrace of institutionalized elusiveness and was a part of it,” writes Avraham Burg. “I was very comfortable there.” I know; I was comfortable there too. But comfortable Zionism has become a moral abdication. Let’s hope that Luntz’s students, in solidarity with their counterparts at Sheikh Jarrah, can foster an uncomfortable Zionism, a Zionism angry at what Israel risks becoming, and in love with what it still could be. Let’s hope they care enough to try.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/arch...shment/?page=3
  #905  
Old 25.05.2010, 21:09
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Mr Netanyahu ... should realize that he only got into power due to the heavy disappointment of many Israelis about Mr Olmert. "Pashosh" may have more insider knowledge about intra-Israeli politics which are in fact of heavy importance for the whole region.
Happy to oblige...
Israeli politics is quite complex - Parties are proportionaly represented in the parlament, every party with over 2% of the total valid votes is represented.

The "fault lines" between the parties are:
1. right-left: extreme right is against any teritorial concessions, the left is for it. the arab parties are, of course, on the extreme left.
2. religious-secular: the religious parties tend to be on the right, but not always.
3. Capitalist-socialist - most parties are now capitalist.
4. Ashkenazi-Sepharadi: not so important today, but the subject is raised every now and then.

The last elections saw the left shrinking, the right & center growing.

Netanyahu's governement has some achievements : Economically the country îs doing quite well, security is at the same level as the 1990s. This may change if military conflict flares again: Gaza, Syria, the WB & Iran are the hotspots.
  #906  
Old 15.06.2010, 15:47
hoppy
 
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Something that I find very interesting and which receives little attention is the how the Israeli- Palestine situation is being affected by US university campuses groups.

At present tensions are high hopefully the universities will be able to resolve issues without curtailing freedom of speech, but also without allowing radical forces on either side to dominate. I have witnessed this first-hand and am alarmed at the verocity of feelings. Perhaps I have forgotten what it is like to be a young idealistic student. Universities have always been ideal recruiting ground, where impressionable excited young people are recruited by agents. I really feel that in order to counteract undesirable influences, the US government must intervene to maintain a sense of US democracy.
Issues of funding should be carefully monitored, to help maintain a balance. All speakers should be voted on by the general student body before they appear. In order to maintain a sense of equality each visiting speaker from one side should be balanced by a visitng speaker from the other side of the argument. Care should be taken to ensure that the choice of speakers is not influenced by gratuities or endowments paid to the college. This is one reason why I am a firm believer in State as opposed to private universities. Private universities must bow to their benefactors.
  #907  
Old 17.08.2010, 02:57
hoppy
 
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Something that I find very interesting and which receives little attention is the how the Israeli- Palestine situation is being affected by US university campuses groups.

At present tensions are high hopefully the universities will be able to resolve issues without curtailing freedom of speech, but also without allowing radical forces on either side to dominate. I have witnessed this first-hand and am alarmed at the verocity of feelings. Perhaps I have forgotten what it is like to be a young idealistic student. Universities have always been ideal recruiting ground, where impressionable excited young people are recruited by agents. I really feel that in order to counteract undesirable influences, the US government must intervene to maintain a sense of US democracy.
Issues of funding should be carefully monitored, to help maintain a balance. All speakers should be voted on by the general student body before they appear. In order to maintain a sense of equality each visiting speaker from one side should be balanced by a visitng speaker from the other side of the argument. Care should be taken to ensure that the choice of speakers is not influenced by gratuities or endowments paid to the college. This is one reason why I am a firm believer in State as opposed to private universities. Private universities must bow to their benefactors.
Tony Judt died- I really need to read up on him shame I didn't do it while he was alive!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Judt

Anyway in reference to my earlier post.....


Quote:
Harvard University has sold millions of dollars in shares in Israeli companies, a move that it insists is purely financial but which has already been claimed by a pro-Palestinian group as a victory in its boycott and divestment campaign against Israel.
Groups sympathetic to the Palestinians have been pressing universities in the US, the UK and elsewhere to end investment in Israel and to boycott Israeli academics.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...s-sale-boycott
  #908  
Old 17.08.2010, 10:12
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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What did I take ?
I "think" MrVertigo might be referring to Palestine
  #909  
Old 17.08.2010, 16:16
hoppy
 
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Especially poignant to me is from 6:09 onwards To me the Gaza flotilla massacre was a major mistake on behalf of Netanyahu, his actions endanger the future of Israel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTc6LBtWEg0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v

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You say the Israel Lobby is too influential, albeit in a way analogous to other lobbies; and you say that criticism of same shouldn’t be censored, or self-censored. Beyond creating a space for dissent, what do you propose be done to lessen the Israel Lobby’s influence?
Create a counter-lobby. Sure there is J Street, but it is almost always on the defensive, responding to absurd exaggerations from the other side. And anyway, it has no money. The only way to proceed, it seems to me, is to build a counter-opinion, a counter-consensus that the Israel Lobby is bad for America. Actually, it is even worse for Israel, but no one here cares about that. So it is all about creating a public space in which to discuss these things. Hence my essays.
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/3594...kage%E2%80%99/
  #910  
Old 17.08.2010, 16:37
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

The BBC managed to surprise me with a decent Panorama program about the "Aid flotilla".


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  #911  
Old 17.08.2010, 17:57
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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The BBC managed to surprise me with a decent Panorama program about the "Aid flotilla".


Yep, what a mess! I have two questions- was there a machine gun used? If so who brought it on board? The other query is that the shelf life of Simvastatin (Zocor) which the reporter points to as passed its expiry date, is two years is stored correctly at <25c. So they shipped out of date drugs! Also I don't think that the electric chairs will travel far in the rubble. Why are interantional organizations using Gaza as a medicine dumping ground, where are the antibiotics and anti-cancer drugs?

70% is of all aid is unusable 20 past its expiry date. Gaza become a dumping ground for un-usuable medicine, dumped and probably leaking into the aquifier!

http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...017276180.html
  #912  
Old 02.09.2010, 12:09
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Guys! It has been sometime since we had some discussion going on here..don't you miss it?

I was reading about the Israeli female soldier who uploaded pictures of herself together with Palestinian detainees on facebook...etc...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...-norm-1.308582

Willing to read more, I found this link via Google while searching:

http://newworldorderreport.com/News/...hemselves.aspx

Really nice documentary-at least for me- in which female soliders in the Israeli army confess about incidents occurring during their service.

Thought to share it with you!

I really felt sorry for the Israeli girl in Part 3 who had her friend shot, consequently she mistreated her detainees, sorry for you dear but this is how war is!
  #913  
Old 02.09.2010, 12:49
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Shock Revelation: Israelis Revealed To Be Not That Different From Anybody else!

World reels in shock at the discovery that Israelis are just as capable of being irresponsible idiots as the Americans, the British, the Arabs or anyone else, really.

Also: UN demands inquiry into rumours that bear shat in woods.
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  #914  
Old 02.09.2010, 12:53
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Shock Revelation: Israelis Revealed To Be Not That Different From Anybody else!

World reels in shock at the discovery that Israelis are just as capable of being irresponsible idiots as the Americans, the British, the Arabs or anyone else, really.

Also: UN demands inquiry into rumours that bear shat in woods.
Correct, no one is claiming the opposite. Then they need to stop playing the Angel's role.
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Old 02.09.2010, 13:00
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Correct, no one is claiming the opposite. Then they need to stop playing the Angel's role.


Ah well, since the thread is going again, I thought I put this in (not sure about the rules to post this... I'll just assume it's allowed until proven otherwise/deleted..)


Last edited by herc82; 02.09.2010 at 13:12.
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Old 02.09.2010, 13:07
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Something that I find very interesting and which receives little attention is the how the Israeli- Palestine situation is being affected by US university campuses groups.

At present tensions are high hopefully the universities will be able to resolve issues without curtailing freedom of speech, but also without allowing radical forces on either side to dominate. I have witnessed this first-hand and am alarmed at the verocity of feelings. Perhaps I have forgotten what it is like to be a young idealistic student. Universities have always been ideal recruiting ground, where impressionable excited young people are recruited by agents. I really feel that in order to counteract undesirable influences, the US government must intervene to maintain a sense of US democracy.
Issues of funding should be carefully monitored, to help maintain a balance. All speakers should be voted on by the general student body before they appear. In order to maintain a sense of equality each visiting speaker from one side should be balanced by a visitng speaker from the other side of the argument. Care should be taken to ensure that the choice of speakers is not influenced by gratuities or endowments paid to the college. This is one reason why I am a firm believer in State as opposed to private universities. Private universities must bow to their benefactors.
Source? Please, no more copy pasta...
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  #917  
Old 02.09.2010, 13:44
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Ah well, since the thread is going again, I thought I put this in (not sure about the rules to post this... I'll just assume it's allowed until proven otherwise/deleted..)
Reposting xkcd is definitely not a problem from xkcd's side.

What I found fascinating about the xkcd forum discussion on that cartoon, is that it soon degenerated into a heated discussion about GPS... "When geeks collide"
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  #918  
Old 02.09.2010, 13:50
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Source? Please, no more copy pasta...
???? I wrote this why should I quote a source-look back through the thread it is there, you want my name and address? So I can't speak from experience and I can't copy and paste articles for people to read and make up their own minds? What source do you want from where?

What is happening in the US with regards to Jews is very interesting. Of course my sympathies are with the Palestinians, but the group that I admire most are JStreet; they are the ones to watch. I am confused what source do you want from where? I will gladly supply.
  #919  
Old 02.09.2010, 14:06
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Of course my sympathies are with the Palestinians
Of course....
  #920  
Old 02.09.2010, 14:11
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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???? I wrote this why should I quote a source-look back through the thread it is there, you want my name and address? So I can't speak from experience and I can't copy and paste articles for people to read and make up their own minds? What source do you want from where?

What is happening in the US with regards to Jews is very interesting. Of course my sympathies are with the Palestinians, but the group that I admire most are JStreet; they are the ones to watch. I am confused what source do you want from where? I will gladly supply.
If the words are indeed your own then I apologise for questioning; prior form indicates a lot of copy pasta masquerading as opinion. But we've been down this route a fair few times...
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