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  #1001  
Old 12.11.2010, 16:52
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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You make so many personal assumptions about me -and even though you are proven wrong time after time, you keep making them.

My family members & friends parents had to flee from Egypt, Morocco & other "tolerant" Arab countries. Some go back to visit - Compared to the locals they enjoy amazing liberties and are very rich.They come back and thank their lucky stars their ancestors were kicked out of those countries.

They can't claim their possessions there, though - you see ,the tolerance is only good for tourists.

The Palestinian- Israeli conflict is only one part of the wider Arab Israeli conflict. Elementary - considering the Palestinian nation was invented after Colour TV. Until 1967 all Palestinians were proud members of the proud Arab nation.
See you never happy, you should thank them that they kicked you out then. They did you a favour and now instead of thanking them you complain. But since they keep coming back it's to find something that money can't buy: history and roots. It's exactly why the palestinians are fighting for their rights. Glad you see it the same way.
But did you also mention that during colonization in north africa by france, most of the jews were allies of the french and were against decolonizations. Of course when in the 60's the french had to leave, it was kind of difficult for the allies of the french (christians, muslims, jews) to stay.
If you have time to go through the confiscated land cases there is a nice interactive map for you with all the details. Enjoy!
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  #1002  
Old 12.11.2010, 16:53
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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You are doing it again!
Doing what ?

Asking you to try and have a polite, fact based discussion ?

Who's life is better: A Kurd in east Turkey or a Palestinian in the west bank ?
  #1003  
Old 12.11.2010, 16:53
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Come on, you can do better then that. It's just the same of posting a Palistinian child with and AK47 and saying that this is what they teach them in schools.

There's little point in debating this topic as there are no black and white answers. It's six of one, half a dozen of the other so there's no chance in coming to a conclusion. I've never met anyone with strong views on this topic to actually change their mind following a debate.

The problem is that so many children from both sides are taught to hate the others from such a young age that it's all they ever know. Unless this changes there will never be any hope for peace in the region.
I remember seeing a documentary where Israeli and Palestinian kids were allowed to live together for a while. While they were together they got on, then when they went back to their communities their attitudes changed. Wouldn't it be great if you could just take all the children in this area, remove them from the religion etc., teach them to work collaboratively and them just put them back to share the land? I'll see if I can find the documentary.

Here it is called Promises

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
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  #1004  
Old 12.11.2010, 16:57
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Who's life is better: A Kurd in east Turkey or a Palestinian in the west bank ?
These comparisons are somewhat immaterial.

Your life is better than X, Y and Z. Mine is better than some person who has to dodge bullets to get water to drink and live.

The point is not comparison of A to B, but rather what is going on/with the State of Israel and Palestine. Comparing quality of life and "who is worse off" is a school yard argument. Both lives are pretty shitty.

Congrats on the 1000th post by the way.
  #1005  
Old 12.11.2010, 17:02
hoppy
 
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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These comparisons are somewhat immaterial.

Your life is better than X, Y and Z. Mine is better than some person who has to dodge bullets to get water to drink and live.

The point is not comparison of A to B, but rather what is going on/with the State of Israel and Palestine. Comparing quality of life and "who is worse off" is a school yard argument. Both lives are pretty shitty.

Congrats on the 1000th post by the way.
Actually sometime Kids get along better than adults

Here it is called Promises



  #1006  
Old 12.11.2010, 17:04
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Actually sometime Kids get along better than adults
You missed the point - it doesn't mean that adults should use childish arguments that have no relevance.
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  #1007  
Old 12.11.2010, 17:21
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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You missed the point - it doesn't mean that adults should use childish arguments that have no relevance.
No I am just trying to ignore it and get onto stuff that I am more interested in.

I know, I am selfish. Isn't anyone here interested in what is happening between Egypt, Israel and the USA? I find it very absorbing, it has a major bearing on the Israel-Palestine situation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...102906502.html

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The message for Egyptians - quickly reinforced by Egyptian officials and media - was that the Obama administration either supports Mr. Mubarak's autocracy or doesn't much care one way or the other. "Such dialogue shows that it is fundamental for both countries to focus on regional issues,"

But what the Obama administration says about it, in public, means a lot to the hundreds of thousands of brave Egyptians who have joined pro-democracy movements - and to those who quietly wait for the political transition that everyone in Cairo knows will come when the ailing president steps down or dies. Ms. Clinton had an opportunity to send a vital message; wrongly, she chose not to.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...111107467.html
  #1008  
Old 12.11.2010, 20:48
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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These comparisons are somewhat immaterial.

Your life is better than X, Y and Z. Mine is better than some person who has to dodge bullets to get water to drink and live.

The point is not comparison of A to B, but rather what is going on/with the State of Israel and Palestine. Comparing quality of life and "who is worse off" is a school yard argument. Both lives are pretty shitty.

Congrats on the 1000th post by the way.
I dare not read what was written after my emotional outburst
but if the palestinians have a low quality of life despite the billiards of oil money it is not israelīs fault

Go to jerusalem and visit the jewish area and the moslem area
the moslem area is neglected etc
is it a question of MONEY or is it a question of PRIORITIES

Please dont say BOTH sides are taught to hate

as a person who attended secular Israeli school i was never taught to hate
my parents never talked badly about arabs even though the males in the family had to go to war to survive

I just wish people would think about jews sometimes
we are after all a minority in the world
and realize the jews need a place to live too

the definition of a palestinian is very complex and actually escape me

what is the difference ethnically ,religious wise , whatever?

why do they define themselves as a separate entity from the moslem brothers exactly? and if so , why cant they live in peace amongst themselves

just today i read about a palestinian behind bars , facing life in jail for posting anonymously on FB criticism of Islam, he wanted to have no religion, he got death threats in the west bank for that and arrested

think about it ,

the quality of life means what? money ? theater? or is it

enlightment? free discussion ? the right to think for yourself ?

If so Israel has definitely a better quality of life
sadly so
i wish the palestinians would improve on ALL aspects of quality of life
  #1009  
Old 12.11.2010, 22:41
hoppy
 
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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palestinians have a low quality of life despite the billiards of oil money it is not israelīs fault
Where is Gaza's gas going? To Israel

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Go to jerusalem and visit the jewish area and the moslem area
the moslem area is neglected etc
is it a question of MONEY or is it a question of PRIORITIES
BOTH ( do you like being shouted at in CAPITALS) the Jews have priority they get the money.


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Please dont say BOTH sides are taught to hate
so it's just the Palestinians that are taught to hate?

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I just wish people would think about jews sometimes
we are after all a minority in the world
and realize the jews need a place to live too
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Israel has definitely a better quality of life
sadly so
i wish the palestinians would improve on ALL aspects of quality of life
I think we get the message

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The definition of a palestinian is very complex and actually escape me

what is the difference ethnically ,religious wise , whatever?
why do they define themselves as a separate entity from the moslem brothers exactly? and if so , why cant they live in peace amongst themselves[/QUOTE] I do my best to understand the defitition of Judaism, Zionism, Ashkenazi Jews hasidic jews, etc. the ones that shave their heads, the ones that don't the ones that keep stuff separate in the fridge, the ones that don't, (it is very complex and can actually escape me) What is the difference ethnically religious wise, whatever? ( I love to use the word whatever). Why do some define themselves as a separate entity from other Jewish brothers, why can't they live in peace amongst themselves?

Where is such tit for tat getting us? I make a concerted effort to understand all people, regardless of race or creed and not to address them in derogatory terms. It would be nice if others could do the same and overcome barriers of prejudice and hate.

Last edited by vwild1; 13.11.2010 at 23:00. Reason: fixed broken quote
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  #1010  
Old 13.11.2010, 18:28
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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See you never happy, you should thank them that they kicked you out then. They did you a favour and now instead of thanking them you complain. But since they keep coming back it's to find something that money can't buy: history and roots. It's exactly why the palestinians are fighting for their rights. Glad you see it the same way.
But did you also mention that during colonization in north africa by france, most of the jews were allies of the french and were against decolonizations. Of course when in the 60's the french had to leave, it was kind of difficult for the allies of the french (christians, muslims, jews) to stay.
Lots of nations did the jews such "favours" - But the jews took these lemons and turned then into lemonade. The Arab took prosperous countries and turned them into desperate places, making Apartheid look like a benevolent option. No one his right mind will emigrate to those "havens of tolerance". Jews go to these places to visit, not to live.

You want the palestinians to leave and come back to visit their "roots & history" ?

Did you find the guy who was expelled from Silwan ? i'm sure you have his name somewhere - next to the proofs that Netanyahu helped Hamas & Singapore is Muslim country. Maybe he is one of the "Scum" you mentioned before...

Quote:
These comparisons are somewhat immaterial.

Your life is better than X, Y and Z. Mine is better than some person who has to dodge bullets to get water to drink and live.

The point is not comparison of A to B, but rather what is going on/with the State of Israel and Palestine. Comparing quality of life and "who is worse off" is a school yard argument. Both lives are pretty shitty.

Congrats on the 1000th post by the way.
The comparisons show the hypocrisy of the people who claim that Palestinians lives are miserable:

- The lives of Palestinians, even in Gaza, is better than most Arabs in the middle east: life expectancy, health are better. Income is slightly lower. Many in Gaza today speak of the Israeli rule with a certain sense on Nostalgia - not without reason.
  #1011  
Old 13.11.2010, 18:36
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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a polite, fact based discussion ?
I am laughing my aß off on this one. Thanks for this note of humour.
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  #1012  
Old 13.11.2010, 19:30
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Lots of nations did the jews such "favours" - But the jews took these lemons and turned then into lemonade. The Arab took prosperous countries and turned them into desperate places, making Apartheid look like a benevolent option. (...)
.
Living free has no price and the life under israeli racism is less attractive even if it's in a golden cage.
It reminds me the propaganda trick of the kibbutz: israelis would forbid to palestinians to pump water to irrigate their plantations. Of course the kibbutz had all rights to use the water. When visitors came, the israeli would proudly show off the fruits and vegetables of their kibbutz and point the desperate dry palestinian farm.
You certainly know the role the kibbutz played in the confiscation of the land of palestinian farmers through Keren Kayemeth LeIsrael.
  #1013  
Old 13.11.2010, 22:18
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Living free has no price and the life under israeli racism is less attractive even if it's in a golden cage.

some uncollaborated story about a kibbutz
If you were a palestinian living in Israel you would jump at the opportunity to live in "non racist" palestine or not ?
  #1014  
Old 13.11.2010, 22:20
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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I am laughing my aß off on this one. Thanks for this note of humour.
Glad I could help. looking forward to your contribution.
  #1015  
Old 13.11.2010, 22:28
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Living free has no price and the life under israeli racism is less attractive even if it's in a golden cage.
It reminds me the propaganda trick of the kibbutz: israelis would forbid to palestinians to pump water to irrigate their plantations. Of course the kibbutz had all rights to use the water. When visitors came, the israeli would proudly show off the fruits and vegetables of their kibbutz and point the desperate dry palestinian farm.
You certainly know the role the kibbutz played in the confiscation of the land of palestinian farmers through Keren Kayemeth LeIsrael.
Freedom ??

I wonder where you got the idea that palestinians live in freedom ???

Show me ONE place in the MOslem world where you can say what you

think and not be jailed for life or beheaded or shot

Israel is not a racist society ,

it is a very complex situation which many try to simplify and label

Arabs would do much better anywhere but where there are Moslem

ruling and that is a fact

Just look at the news today about the Palestinian in Qualquila who

was jailed for life for posting on FB

can you imagine that ? YOu who can post on EF

any stupid nonsense , can you imagine being placed in life imprisonment

for that?

What freedom are you talking about ?

you are just repeating chewed up balony that the biased media is feeding

everyone

Most people who believe that Israel has a right to exist dont post here

because they dont bother facing all the stupid comments

Would you like to visit palestine?

try to sit in a coffee shop as a woman or go without your hair covered

in a moslem country or as a woman alone

try even driving

many many things you take for granted as your basic rights are not

available for people living in Moslem countries

that is exactly why the emigrate HERE

and i will support their rights and i feel sorry for them

as long as they admit that it is their regimes who are abusing rights

and not project their own evils unto others.

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  #1016  
Old 13.11.2010, 22:35
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Freedom ??

I wonder where you got the idea that palestinians live in freedom ???

Show me ONE place in the MOslem world where you can say what you

think and not be jailed for life or beheaded or shot

(..bla bla..)
i feel beheaded everytime I try to read your posts...... the heap of BS you manage to accumulate in so many sentences gives the final touch of decapitation. I excuse you given your personal situation by the way.
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  #1017  
Old 13.11.2010, 22:35
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Glad I could help. looking forward to your contribution.
No sorry, I stay Swiss neutral as soon as Israel drops into the conversation.
  #1018  
Old 13.11.2010, 22:46
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Where is Gaza's gas going? To Israel

BOTH ( do you like being shouted at in CAPITALS) the Jews have priority they get the money.


so it's just the Palestinians that are taught to hate?

I think we get the message

I do my best to understand the defitition of Judaism, Zionism, Ashkenazi Jews hasidic jews, etc. the ones that shave their heads, the ones that don't the ones that keep stuff separate in the fridge, the ones that don't, (it is very complex and can actually escape me) What is the difference ethnically religious wise, whatever? ( I love to use the word whatever). Why do some define themselves as a separate entity from other Jewish brothers, why can't they live in peace amongst themselves?

The big difference being that Israel did not keep certain groups on purpose poor and homeless as did the Moslem brothers in Lebanon and Jordan who instead of helping their brothers kept them in refugee camps or rejected them ..
Israelīs policy has always been to integrate the Jewish brothers
but Israel is not supposed to take care of other nations
I think considering the huge burden Israel had to cope with taking in all the Jews kicked out of Arab lands and those jews the europeans did not succeed to murder then Israel is doing not too badly at all
The idea that "the jews have money " and the moslems are poor is a huge absurd lie
because look where the oil is ,
but the distribution of wealth in the moslem world leaves a lot to be desired
the social gaps in <moslem societies everywhere are disgraceful
the saudi princes live a luxury life while the masses are ignorant and illiterate
palestinians have by far better conditions but of course if they had invested in infrastructure rather than insist on smuggling weapons they would have more money, bombs cost

The idea that Jews have money is antisemitic because if you look at the list of the richest people in the world the jews are not on top
however jews probobly have been better at dealing with money because jews were forced to work in banking since the middle ages when they were not allowed to own property or land and that is why they are such clever merchents.
anyway, i am aware of human rights abuse but think that the palestinians should look at themselves before blaming Israel and you for sure should be careful about saying lies about Israel because it is so far from what is really going on
look at how yasar arafat lived in paris like a millionaire, well not Like, while his people live in such poverty
it is well known that the palestinian authority has constant corruption and misuse of money and this is the result
Israel does not starve the palestinans, just trying to stop them from putting all their money into bombs , cant blame israel for that

Last edited by vwild1; 13.11.2010 at 22:58. Reason: fixed broken quote
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  #1019  
Old 14.11.2010, 00:48
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Most people who believe that Israel has a right to exist dont post here
Actually, we do.

Or, at least, we did before you came along and let the side down.

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Old 14.11.2010, 01:12
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Actually, we do.

Or, at least, we did before you came along and let the side down.

Yes. We've finally acquired our own Hoppy. Where shall we put it?
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