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  #1221  
Old 07.12.2010, 21:49
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Re: When the extrems meet

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the colonies are those who take property & land without the permission, agreement, sales contract from owner in West Bank.
Do you believe that all properties owned by settlers were taken legally ?

In the 2 state solution, I'm for having legit israeli owners keeping their property and living peacefully and in security in the Palestinian state. The same should apply to palestinians living under israeli rules.

If colonies are "those who take property & land without the permission, agreement, sales contract from owner in West Bank." then most jewish settlements are not colonies - they will gladly show you legal documents proving their ownership of the land.
anyway, land ownership in Judea & Samaria was already discussed in this forum.

Jews living peacefully in a palestinian state - Let's assume this happens (a very far fetched assumption, but I'll play along) and a jewish community is attacked by it's muslim neighbours (most christians already left). The palestinian police will react like any other police in an arab state and do nothing.

Would you support a proportionate response ?
  #1222  
Old 07.12.2010, 22:06
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Re: When the extrems meet

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If colonies are "those who take property & land without the permission, agreement, sales contract from owner in West Bank." then most jewish settlements are not colonies - they will gladly show you legal documents proving their ownership of the land.
anyway, land ownership in Judea & Samaria was already discussed in this forum.
OK; long topic but you know what I mean by colonies.

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Jews living peacefully in a palestinian state - Let's assume this happens (a very far fetched assumption, but I'll play along) and a jewish community is attacked by it's muslim neighbours (most christians already left). The palestinian police will react like any other police in an arab state and do nothing.
Would you support a proportionate response ?
1) settlers attacking "arabs" never happens of course or arsoning of mosques. But OK let's also play your game

2) same laws applies to everyone moslem, jew or christian or atheist. Equal treatment and rights.

3) Will it happen? I hope. neither you or I can say what will happen actually. Already today, the law in a democratic state like israel is not so equal for some class of israelis.

4) The palestinian christians are also the victims of israeli occupation in the territories. I went to Bethlehem and many christians told me that in West bank the main reason to leave is the israeli policy/occupation. In gaza it's another whole story I agree. But Gaza is hell for everyone living there.
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  #1223  
Old 07.12.2010, 22:17
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Re: When the extrems meet

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OK; long topic but you know what I mean by colonies...
I know you can't name 3 "colonies".

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1) settlers attacking "arabs" never happens of course or arsoning of mosques. But OK let's also play your game

2) same laws applies to everyone moslem, jew or christian or atheist. Equal treatment and rights.

3) Will it happen? I hope. neither you or I can say what will happen actually.
Equal rights ? Never happened in an Arab state.

why would it happen now ?

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4) The palestinian christians are also the victims of israeli occupation in the territories. I went to Bethlehem and many christians told me that in West bank the main reason to leave is the israeli policy/occupation. In gaza it's another whole story I agree. But Gaza is hell for everyone living there.
They told me other things - about how the PA looks the other way when muslim occupy christian lands, attack churches etc.

Generaly, the Christians are better educated then Muslims and emigrate. happened in Lebanon, Iraq - nothing to to with Israel (where the number of christians is actually rising, the only place in the middle east).
  #1224  
Old 07.12.2010, 22:19
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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woooww, i thought this type of thinking disappeared. So it's not good when arabs don't sell home/land to jews, but it's ok for jews to refuse land/property to arabs. Double standard is the name.
Did i say that? If an arab considers a jew to be a real threat, he has every right to keep him as far away from his home as possible, but the fact is that thats rarely the case.
  #1225  
Old 07.12.2010, 22:23
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Did i say that? If an arab considers a jew to be a real threat, he has every right to keep him as far away from his home as possible, but the fact is that thats rarely the case.
Jews are a threat - now they are even eating tourists in Sinai
  #1226  
Old 07.12.2010, 22:32
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Re: When the extrems meet

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I know you can't name 3 "colonies".
I will not insult you by listing some colonies; the "Peace Now" report of 2006 states that 40% of the land of settlements were taken by force from legit arab owners.

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Equal rights ? Never happened in an Arab state.

why would it happen now ?
For the same reason that before 1948 Israel did not exist. I believe in human nature and that they can change. To paraphrase a well known artist: give people and peace a chance.

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They told me other things - about how the PA looks the other way when muslim occupy christian lands, attack churches etc.

Generaly, the Christians are better educated then Muslims and emigrate. happened in Lebanon, Iraq - nothing to to with Israel (where the number of christians is actually rising, the only place in the middle east).
There are different sorts of christians who tell different sorts of stories, to different sorts of people.

The fact that they are better educated gives them also more opportunities to emigrate to other christian countries where they have more chances to get a residence/work permit.

I trust the people I met and with whom I spoke. I will not insult you again by pointing you to a wikipedia article on palestinian christians and the heap of references it provides to explain exodus.

Where is your reference regarding increasing numbers of christians in Israel? I'd be interested to read that.
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  #1227  
Old 07.12.2010, 22:35
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Did i say that? If an arab considers a jew to be a real threat, he has every right to keep him as far away from his home as possible, but the fact is that thats rarely the case.
I think neither you nor I are not well placed to tell if jews are not a threat for palestinians. Do you have facts or it's just a gut feeling from the newspaper and TV?
I am sure if you ask palestinians in West Bank & gaza they will have a completely different view from yours (one-sided).
  #1228  
Old 07.12.2010, 22:36
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Jews are a threat - now they are even eating tourists in Sinai
Noooo not Jews....Jaws
  #1229  
Old 07.12.2010, 22:38
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Jews are a threat - now they are even eating tourists in Sinai
Its a fact. Jews control not only the government and the media, they control animals too. Check out these supernatural rats that infest only arab homes: www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/928503-jerusalem-old
  #1230  
Old 07.12.2010, 22:43
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Its a fact. Jews control not only the government and the media, they control animals too. Check out these supernatural rats that infest only arab homes: www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/928503-jerusalem-old
Woow even Bibi condemned the rabbis who asked jews not to sell or rent to arabs. But you managed to find it acceptable. Quite a distinction for you.
  #1231  
Old 07.12.2010, 22:46
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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I think neither you nor I are not well placed to tell if jews are not a threat for palestinians. Do you have facts or it's kust a gut feeling from the newspaper and TV?
I am sure if you ask palestinians in West Bank & gaza they will have a completely different view from yours (one-sided).
You do insult me to make such an assumption. I'll say this though. Lets make a test.. Offer an unarmed jew to walk through gaza-no you don't even have to go so far, lets stick with east jerusalem. Now ask an unarmed arab to walk through gilo. Who's gonna be more at risk and who is more likely to do it?

Do you know who this is?
  #1232  
Old 07.12.2010, 22:47
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Re: When the extrems meet

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I will not insult you by listing some colonies; the "Peace Now" report of 2006 states that 40% of the land of settlements were taken by force from legit arab owners.
Go ahead, make my evening


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For the same reason that before 1948 Israel did not exist. I believe in human nature and that they can change. To paraphrase a well known artist: give people and peace a chance.
Actually - a jewish state existed Twice before 1948.

The PA is already a corrupt, violent regime (Not to mention Hamas) - would it change ?

Please provide a room in your house to a convicted rapist with 22 victims. let's see how your trust in human nature holds when the very-much-expected happens.




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There are different sorts of christians who tell different sorts of stories, to different sorts of people.

The fact that they are better educated gives them also more opportunities to emigrate to other christian countries where they have more chances to get a residence/work permit.

I trust the people I met and with whom I spoke. I will not insult you again by pointing you to a wikipedia article on palestinian christians and the heap of references it provides to explain exodus.

Where is your reference regarding increasing numbers of christians in Israel? I'd be interested to read that.
Of course - you trust what people tell you when it suits your ideology. when I provide facts you choose to ignore them. Wikipedia is an insult when political matters are discussed.

I'm sorry to hear that your Google is broken and you could not find facts. let me help and "insult" you with the current statistics
  #1233  
Old 07.12.2010, 22:49
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Woow even Bibi condemned the rabbis who asked jews not to sell or rent to arabs. But you managed to find it acceptable. Quite a distinction for you.
Even Bibi?
  #1234  
Old 07.12.2010, 22:54
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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You do insult me to make such an assumption. I'll say this though. Lets make a test.. Offer an unarmed jew to walk through gaza-no you don't even have to go so far, lets stick with east jerusalem. Now ask an unarmed arab to walk through gilo. Who's gonna be more at risk and who is more likely to do it?

Do you know who this is?
Should I remember you what tsahal soldiers are doing to palestinian prisoners ? you have youtube I guess. even the israeli authorities were ashamed.

You have seen this ?
This user would like to thank MrVertigo for this useful post:
  #1235  
Old 07.12.2010, 22:59
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Re: When the extrems meet

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(...)
I'm sorry to hear that your Google is broken and you could not find facts. let me help and "insult" you with the current statistics
Bravo! You deserve the Nobel prize.

You are just showing that druze, christians, muslim, jews are having kids and population is growing.

Give me statistics on immigration. How many left, how many came.
  #1236  
Old 07.12.2010, 23:01
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Should I remember you what tsahal soldiers are doing to palestinian prisoners ? you have youtube I guess. even the israeli authorities were ashamed.

You have seen this ?
Can we agree that when we are discussing civilans, we'll stick to civilians. Otherwise i'd be happy to move on to how fairly prisoners are or aren't treated. Thats a different topic.
Those settlers are so brutal, i'm gonna have nightmares from it. I haven't seen anything more gory that a kid kicking a woman. And you can bet your bottom dollar that those kids were arrested too. Just fyi.
  #1237  
Old 07.12.2010, 23:10
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Can we agree that when we are discussing civilans, we'll stick to civilians. Otherwise i'd be happy to move on to how fairly prisoners are or aren't treated. Thats a different topic.
Those settlers are so brutal, i'm gonna have nightmares from it. I haven't seen anything more gory that a kid kicking a woman. And you can bet your bottom dollar that those kids were arrested too. Just fyi.
the ramallah lynching involved 2 IDF soldiers not civilians. I find it horrible what happened and hope that the people involved were punished if not by PA at least by IDF.

I have no other choice than to believe you on the settler kid being punished.
  #1238  
Old 07.12.2010, 23:17
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Re: When the extrems meet

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Bravo! You deserve the Nobel prize.

You are just showing that druze, christians, muslim, jews are having kids and population is growing.

Give me statistics on immigration. How many left, how many came.
My chances of winning a nobel prize are higher than having a law abiding palestinian state.

The people in israel discovered that having sex may lead to having kids. This is only known to Muslims elsewhere in the middle east - Christians in the middle east dont know that, that's why there are so few of them left.

You want statistics on immigration ? it's as easy as demolishing your argument.

Now go gamble on your own country's survival instead of asking Israel to take all the risks and get blamed when it has to fight it's enemies.
  #1239  
Old 07.12.2010, 23:36
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Re: When the extrems meet

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My chances of winning a nobel prize are higher than having a law abiding palestinian state.

The people in israel discovered that having sex may lead to having kids. This is only known to Muslims elsewhere in the middle east - Christians in the middle east dont know that, that's why there are so few of them left.

You want statistics on immigration ? it's as easy as demolishing your argument.

Now go gamble on your own country's survival instead of asking Israel to take all the risks and get blamed when it has to fight it's enemies.
Congratulations!
Most of non-arab christians are of russian origin who migrated with jewish partner (mixed couples). So they are very unlikely to have problem with israeli authorities. We are talking about arab christians here.
The document you provided shows a negative immigration balance for Arab christians!

Last edited by MrVertigo; 07.12.2010 at 23:49.
  #1240  
Old 07.12.2010, 23:54
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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the ramallah lynching involved 2 IDF soldiers not civilians. I find it horrible what happened and hope that the people involved were punished if not by PA at least by IDF.

I have no other choice than to believe you on the settler kid being punished.
Reservists, if you want to call them soldiers, being attacked by a mob of over 1,000 civilians. Punished?? A mob of protesters? Yes, israel did all they could to get their hands on the guy waving his bloody hands out the window. But the PA? This took place in a PA building.

Back to the settlers. I'm not denying that hate crimes happen. They do, and they are wrong. But it is ignorant to pretend that israel is the only country where it happens. It happens and it is not by any means tolerated by the police. An arab being attacked or threatened can claim protection and file a report under the israeli police force-just like you would in any other democratic country. The PA however would hardly be one to rely on (as you can see for yourself above). This is not some competition to see who is more mistreated. I'm just trying to show you that israeli jews have much more reason to fear arabs than the other way around.
 

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