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Old 10.01.2011, 14:11
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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What's does the poster's info got to do with his/hers posts ? If someone disagrees with the post he should refute it factually.
I'm not linking the two.

I'm saying that it's nice if people introduce themselves rather than simply launch themselves into an almost single-issue approach to EF membership.
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Old 10.01.2011, 14:11
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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somebody wrote in this thread that there are bad people in all groups of society.
Unfortunately this is true.
But consider this:
If bad people commit atrocities in the name of whatever and their leaders (who are supposedly, not bad!)
applaud them, then what does that make the whole group?
extreme whateverists?
  #1283  
Old 10.01.2011, 14:27
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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You think so? So you don't think that people that say "Israel must be wiped off the map" are the ones who will create a fully fledged conflict?
Flavio, you just don't grasp it!
The state of Israel must just knuckle under & let themselves be wiped of the map, maybe with a nuclear bomb.
Because if they respond, they are going to be responsible for ...........................
  #1284  
Old 10.01.2011, 14:29
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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extreme whateverists?
And if they quote the Koran as their guide & instructor, authored by I dare not say who!!!!!
  #1285  
Old 10.01.2011, 14:32
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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hoppy (Forum Veteran) wrote that there are bad people in all groups of society.
Unfortunately this is true fact of life.
But consider this:
If bad people commit atrocities in the name of whatever and their leaders (who are supposedly, not bad!)
applaud them & preach that anyone who does the same, will be rewarded with 70 virgins,
then what does that make the whole group??????

p.s. by the way, what are the women rewarded with?
Ok, First of all, only people who believe in fairy tales believe in the 70 or something virgins. That is one very ridiculous funny tale that many muslims and especially non-muslims believe.

Second, no where it says then if you commit atrocities and kill people and act badly, you'll go to heaven.

The belief of heaven is not different in Islam than it is in Christianism. For both, you have to be good and win your place with good actions to reach the place.

You have to stop listening everyones and get your facts right (as long as religion's beliefs can be called ''facts'')

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  #1286  
Old 10.01.2011, 14:34
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Here are my answers-

No, I don't defend Ahmadinejad- just some things are surprising it surprised me! Yes I am a leftist-elitist and proud of it- although also fiscally conservative, where fiscally conservative means that bankers don't spend what you don't have and don't ask for massive tax cuts or tax dodges at the expense of the country.

Yes, I do believe that the Likud government is operating in an apartheid fashion. Sometimes I can appreciate gender segregation to be good thing, like a girllie shopping trip, but I am a bit of a tomboy, if you sent me shopping it would be for hemi snowblower or a lie detector. That aside I can't really answer. I feel like a gay man trapped in a woman's body. I think that men and women should be free to exchange roles. If I was a man I would probably still want try make-up and high heels or even a veil. The wearing of clothes should be optional as far as I am concerned.

Ask the your government, not me, why they support Saudi Arabia. I don't support Saudi Arabia.

I don't agree with violence or capital punishment in any form. In one state in the US they ran out of lethal injection so they are substituting veterinary products. I am also anti-war.

I have known quite a few Kurds, stayed in their homes etc. great horseback riders and hunters, however I don't fully understand their politics, there are different factions, it's a bit complicated. I admire the fact that they tried to stop Bush's company from stealing their oil as part of his Iraq spoils of victory. Kurdish men that I knew were very particular about the honor of their women. Do you personally know any Kurds? I don't appreciate that they allow Mossad to train them in attacks against Iran, that they allow themselves to be used against a country which perhaps, amongst their neighbours, afforded them the most respect.

Did you know that Savak trained by the CIA would torture their victims by roasting them on racks. Iran is one of the few countries that has never instigated war it merely acts in defense.

Iran had a democracy, the US and the UK destroyed it- this is openly admitted by the US and the UK, they have apologized, but it's too late to turn back the clock.




A few years ago Iran offered the US an olive branch- a letter from the Iranian government to the Bush government via the Swiss Embassy, Bush chose to disregard it. In Afghanistan Iran helped the US, enabling early victories. On 9/11 Iranian people flooded the streets in a public outcry of support for those who died in the attacks. In return the Iranians were placed on the 'Axis of Evil'


So it sounds like you have been bombarded with anti-Muslim (by the way Kurds are Muslims) propaganda.
What you doing up at 3 in the morning?
  #1287  
Old 10.01.2011, 14:42
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

The 'great Islamist threat' is an idea that isn't really supported by reality, at least in Europe.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/great+Islamist+menace/4084610/story.html

Perhaps we could get back to discussing Israel and Palestine now?
  #1288  
Old 10.01.2011, 15:01
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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The 'great Islamist threat' is an idea that isn't really supported by reality, at least in Europe.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/great+Islamist+menace/4084610/story.html

Perhaps we could get back to discussing Israel and Palestine now?
The European Union's Terrorism Situation and Trend Report 2010 states that in 2009 there were "294 failed, foiled, or successfully executed attacks" in six European countries. This was down almost one-third from the total in 2008 and down by almost one-half from the total in 2007.

The above is an excerpt from your Vancouver Sun.

Ah, only 294 attacks! This downward trend is soooo reassuring!
Thanks Gnome, but it would seem that you live in such a cosseted surrounding.
If the Islamisten did not want that little strip of land the WAY they want it,
you & probably a few 100 million other people in this world would'nt even know where Israel was.
So discussing Islam, is discussing the conflict, which I think you agree, is what is happening here.

Last edited by Custodian; 10.01.2011 at 15:12.
  #1289  
Old 10.01.2011, 15:09
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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What you doing up at 3 in the morning?
Having nightmares about dealing with 72 virgins. and wondering why the abitrary number of 72. I think that the virgins are supposed to be angels.
  #1290  
Old 10.01.2011, 15:14
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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The European Union's Terrorism Situation and Trend Report 2010 states that in 2009 there were "294 failed, foiled, or successfully executed attacks" in six European countries. This was down almost one-third from the total in 2008 and down by almost one-half from the total in 2007.

The above is an excerpt from your Vancouver Sun.

Ah, only 294 attacks! This downward trend is soooo reassuring!
Thanks Gnome, but it would seem that you live in such a cosseted surrounding.
If the Islamisten did not want that little strip of land the WAY they want it,
you & probably a few 100 million other people in this world would'nt even know where Israel was.
So discussing Islam, is discussing the conflict, which I think you agree, is what is happening here.
Did you actually read the article?

The point is that 237 of those 294 incidents were by separatist groups like ETA. There were a tiny number of Islamist incidents.

And no, I don't think the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is about Islam. That's a sideshow compared to the main issues which are about land and statehood.
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  #1291  
Old 10.01.2011, 15:15
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Having nightmares about dealing with 72 virgins. and wondering why the abitrary number of 72. I think that the virgins are supposed to be angels.
wHERe do you get 72 from? I thought it was only 70!
Gone up with the MWST?
  #1292  
Old 10.01.2011, 15:23
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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The European Union's Terrorism Situation and Trend Report 2010 states that in 2009 there were "294 failed, foiled, or successfully executed attacks" in six European countries. This was down almost one-third from the total in 2008 and down by almost one-half from the total in 2007.

The above is an excerpt from your Vancouver Sun.

Ah, only 294 attacks. This downward trend is soooo reassuring.
Thanks Gnome, but it would seem that you live in such a cosseted surrounding.
If the Islamisten did not want that little strip of land the way they want it, you & probably a few 100 million other people in this world would'nt even know where Israel was.
So discussing Islam, is discussing the conflict, which I think you agree is what is being done here.
While I feel that everyone should remain vigilant, I am skeptical of the number of reported attacks. For political reasons it useful to some to keep the people in a constant state of fear. Often it is the Muslim community itself that will report on its own member who have 'gone all ala-qaeda'. The answer lies in maintaining good links with the Muslim community to help them flush out any renegades, but also to sympathize in situations like Iraq Afghanistan, Palestine, Baluchistan where innocent Muslims are being slaughtered in resource and grabs.
  #1293  
Old 10.01.2011, 15:24
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Did you actually read the article?

The point is that 237 of those 294 incidents were by separatist groups like ETA. There were a tiny number of Islamist incidents.

And no, I don't think the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is about Islam. That's a sideshow compared to the main issues which are about land and statehood.

From your point of view, it's not, because you are not on the front line.
Have you ever been to the country and seen that every single shop has to have a guard at the door to check whose coming in. Just imagine that on the Bahnhofstr.!!!
Why? Because suicide bomber's are an absolute day to day reality.
In whose name does a human blow themselves up?
Would any civilised person do such a thing. Against human instinct?
They have been fed with their mothers milk indoctrination that, I dare not say who, has promised huge reward for this act.
Who indoctrinates them? The preachers in the Mosques. During prayers.
And you write this has nothing to do with Islam!!
It's like saying that petrol has nothing to do with a car!
  #1294  
Old 10.01.2011, 15:39
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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While I feel that everyone should remain vigilant, I am skeptical of the number of reported attacks. For political reasons it useful to some to keep the people in a constant state of fear. Often it is the Muslim community itself that will report on its own member who have 'gone all ala-qaeda'. The answer lies in maintaining good links with the Muslim community to help them flush out any renegades, but also to sympathize in situations like Iraq Afghanistan, Palestine, Baluchistan where innocent Muslims are being slaughtered in resource and grabs.
A renegade is a term usually used to describe a very limited number.
Is this the case here?
According to info available to me, good links have been created in several countries. They have no influence whatsoever.
Even an Arab Journalist living in Jerusalem who writes AGAINST the State of Israel has been threatened with death by the clergy followers of I dare not say who, because he writes in Hebrew!
Have any sensible non violent Muslim's got a chance?
  #1295  
Old 10.01.2011, 15:40
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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From your point of view, it's not, because you are not on the front line.
Have you ever been to the country and seen that every single shop has to have a guard at the door to check whose coming in. Just imagine that on the Bahnhofstr.!!!
Why? Because suicide bomber's are an absolute day to day reality.
In whose name does a man or woman blow themselves up? Would any civilised person do such a thing. Against human instinct? They have been fed with their mothers milk indoctrination that, I dare not say who, has promised huge reward for this act. Who indoctrinates them? The preachers in the Mosques. During prayers.


I dare say that there is some truth in that, but if aggressors would stop killing them, poisoning them stealing their land, destroying their livelihood, then maybe they wouldn't resort to suicide bombings.

The truth is in the numbers- what is it? - 100 Arabs for every 1 Israeli?

Anyway according to the Muslim haters the numebr is 72 you should check with your colleagues, they are the ones coming up with the number and it sounds like they are getting pretty miffed about not getting the same deal.

Personally I am not that obsessed with counting virgins
  #1296  
Old 10.01.2011, 15:48
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Ok, First of all, only people who believe in fairy tales believe in the 70 or something virgins. That is one very ridiculous funny tale that many muslims and especially non-muslims believe.

Second, no where it says then if you commit atrocities and kill people and act badly, you'll go to heaven.

The belief of heaven is not different in Islam than it is in Christianism. For both, you have to be good and win your place with good actions to reach the place.

You have to stop listening everyones and get your facts right (as long as religion's beliefs can be called ''facts'')

Maybe b4 you write so easily you ask someone familiar with the koran. Besides, what is being preached in Mosques from Sydney to London? The latter, are meant to be authorities on the book.
It would be nice if it were only "funny tales"
For you it maybe a funny tale, for those who have been maimed or their dear ones been killed, they would puke at someone who could describe it as funny tales.
  #1297  
Old 10.01.2011, 16:00
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Maybe b4 you write so easily you ask someone familiar with the koran. Besides, what is being preached in Mosques from Sydney to London? The latter, are meant to be authorities on the book.
It would be nice if it were only "funny tales"
For you it maybe a funny tale, for those who have been maimed or their dear ones been killed, they would puke at someone who could describe it as funny tales.
As I said, this isn't really born out by the facts in Europe. Seeing as you were unable to read and interpret the Vancouver Sun article properly, le me extract the key points for you.

2007 - 4 incidents (foiled or successful attacks)
2008 - 0 incidents
2009 - 1 incident

Yes. There is conflict between Israel and Palestine, but don't try and paint a picture of a conflict in Europe.
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Old 10.01.2011, 16:06
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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A renegade is a term usually used to describe a very limited number.
Is this the case here?
According to info available to me, good links have been created in several countries. They have no influence whatsoever.
Even an Arab Journalist living in Jerusalem who writes AGAINST the State of Israel has been threatened with death by the clergy followers of I dare not say who, because he writes in Hebrew!
Have any sensible non violent Muslim's got a chance?
Of course the sensible Muslims will win the war, but I think that they have to reform Sharia law as far as women are concerned.
However concentrating on extremists doesn't get the Likud party of the hook-they have to stop illegally bulldozing. killing and stealing land , while the world looks the other way. Wikileaks released a report that the aim of Likud was to keep Gaza perpetually on the edge of total chaos:

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Late last year a Norwegian paper apparently got hold of the trove of U.S. diplomatic cables leaked to WikiLeaks and now is focusing attention on Israeli-Palestinian affairs. The Norwegian paper Aftenposten published two U.S. diplomatic cables Wednesday one of which alleged Israeli border forces were bribing American companies supplying goods to the beleaguered enclave, the other concluding that Israel's blockade is intended to push the area's economy “to the brink of collapse.”....

Bribery by Israeli officials of those delivering goods that are allowed into the enclave would be a new low. According to the cable, a local Coca-Cola distributor was shaken down for $3,000 and other companies complained of similar treatment, including Procter & Gamble, Caterpillar, Philip Morris, Westinghouse, Hewlett-Packard, Motorola, Aramex and Dell.
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2011...eaks-and-gaza/


If they continue then the Palestinians will resort to more militancy.

At present, I believe that the militancy on the Palestinian side has reduced; many countries are officially recognizing Palestine, pressure will eventually be brought to bear on the US to follow suit. The US liberals are already more aligned with JStreet than the AIPAC.

Chile has just joined Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay and Bolivia in recognized a Palestinian state. These are emergent economy countries, Brazil has massive oil reserves, the US cannot afford not to have good relations with them.
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Old 10.01.2011, 16:28
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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As I said, this isn't really born out by the facts in Europe. Seeing as you were unable to read and interpret the Vancouver Sun article properly, le me extract the key points for you.

2007 - 4 incidents (foiled or successful attacks)
2008 - 0 incidents
2009 - 1 incident

Yes. There is conflict between Israel and Palestine, but don't try and paint a picture of a conflict in Europe.
If you call Switzerland Europe, then I must agree with you, but:

Don't know whether you believe wiki, there they have a little more accurate statistics then the Vancouver Sun.
Nearly once a month, in France alone, attacks are made on Jews by Muslims. For what?
Maybe try this
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/wo....19125259.html
or this
http://theboulevardgirl.blogspot.com...in-europe.html
One could carry on & on.
Let's not be so blind to reality.
History repeats itself over & over again, only some people believe what they see with their limited sight, is cleverer then many years of documented facts to which they have not been privy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism
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Old 10.01.2011, 16:32
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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If you call Switzerland Europe, then I must agree with you, but:

Don't know whether you believe wiki, there they have a little more accurate statistics then the Vancouver Sun.
Nearly once a month, in France alone, attacks are made on Jews by Muslims. For what?
Maybe try this
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/wo....19125259.html
or this
http://theboulevardgirl.blogspot.com...in-europe.html
One could carry on & on.
Let's not be so blind to reality.
History repeats itself over & over again, only some people believe what they see with their limited sight, is cleverer then many years of documented facts to which they have not been privy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism
We're discussing terrorist attacks as reported in the
European Union's Terrorism Situation and Trend Report 2010.

Again, you should read the article before commenting.
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