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  #1401  
Old 24.01.2011, 23:34
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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... and you're complaining about it?

Actually all the fire has gone out of her- I need her alive and mentally alert- keep sending her vitamins, phone her every other day. She can't really travel anymore.
  #1402  
Old 24.01.2011, 23:40
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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You wanna play like that? Ok in that case Israel did not threaten to bomb Hoppy's granny either
Joke accepted BUT fact is that the Iranians quite generally are ready to use aggressive words against Israel but nobody of their ruling Mullahcracy since 1979 was ready to get into confrontation against Israel. None of them has ever supported the Palestinians. None of the has ever seriously cared about what went on in Israel-Palestine.

Beside this, Mr Ahmedinejad is NOT using a single Iranian Riyal for an attack against Israel, not a single one. The son out of a family of Iranian Jews however needs aggressive anti-Israeli rethorics for his own position
  #1403  
Old 24.01.2011, 23:49
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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The PA should adopt a new strategy: living in reality.

There are 500,000 Israelis living in the west bank - the Palestinian official line was that all of them will have to move. this is not realistic.

Guess what - behind closed doors the PA agreed this is not realistic.
they were caught out with their own lies.

same applies for the "refugee" issue.

Edit: Abu Mazen says that Al Jazeera took Israeli positions for Palesitinian ones. you couldn't make it up.
all correct to some extent, except the point that Mr Netanyahu and his crew ought also to start to live in reality, in a longer term reality than just for one or two years.

The Israelis in the West Bank inside an independent Palestine will have the choice to be foreigners in the new country, OR even become full citizens of the new country. Does this sound like science fiction ? Possibly yes, but such changes have taken place in the past 50 years so very often that this would and will not be sensational at all
  #1404  
Old 25.01.2011, 09:04
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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...Mr Ahmedinejad is NOT using a single Iranian Riyal for an attack against Israel, not a single one.
Iran spent quite a lot of money to fight Israel via proxy.
  #1405  
Old 25.01.2011, 11:28
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Jan 25 is day of revolution in Egypt. Many protesters are rallying against Mubarak. That can lead to a radical change in government. This potential change will have an impact on the egypt-israeli relationship. Worry about Iran, Egypt, Palestine, Lebanon...woow Netanyahu should really starting thinking about striking a peace deal somehow.
  #1406  
Old 25.01.2011, 12:06
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Jan 25 is day of revolution in Egypt. Many protesters are rallying against Mubarak. That can lead to a radical change in government. This potential change will have an impact on the egypt-israeli relationship. Worry about Iran, Egypt, Palestine, Lebanon...woow Netanyahu should really starting thinking about striking a peace deal somehow.
Please explain your logic - If the current regime in Egypt is replaced, why and with whom should Israel strike a deal ?

Let's assume that the Islamists take over in Egypt (being the most organized and ruthless opposition) - will they respect the treaty or will they act like their Iranian counterpart and start hostilities against Israel ?
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Old 25.01.2011, 12:15
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Iran is one of the main cash funders and weapon supplier to the gaza area.

Further, Ahmadinejad publicly announced that Israel should be destroyed.

The virus (stuxnet) was according to the Tagesanzeiger developed by the United States and Israel.

And yeah Israel dose not want Iran to get hold of a nuclear bomb, i dont think
thy are making a secret out of it.

And didnt the Israelis concur that land during one of the wars which thy did NOT start. Well your loss if you start a war take into consideration it will cost you..
  #1408  
Old 25.01.2011, 13:09
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Please explain your logic - If the current regime in Egypt is replaced, why and with whom should Israel strike a deal ?

Let's assume that the Islamists take over in Egypt (being the most organized and ruthless opposition) - will they respect the treaty or will they act like their Iranian counterpart and start hostilities against Israel ?
The people leading the marches and objecting to dictators are young, educated with secular background. Actually religion does not play a role as it's more social & freedom related issues. The likelihood of a democratic regime is higher than having islamists. Therefore it will be much more difficult for US/Israel to pressure these new regimes (if they succeed).
  #1409  
Old 25.01.2011, 14:05
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

If (and it a very big if) Egypt will have a secular & democratic regime - this regime will push for more co-operation with Israel as it's sure to help the ordinary Egyptian (current economical cooperation is curtailed by the current Egyptian government) - so there will be no need to "pressure" them.

please explain why do you think today's "day of revolution" in egypt should put pressure on Israel to strike a deal and with whom.
  #1410  
Old 25.01.2011, 14:46
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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If (and it a very big if) Egypt will have a secular & democratic regime - this regime will push for more co-operation with Israel as it's sure to help the ordinary Egyptian (current economical cooperation is curtailed by the current Egyptian government) - so there will be no need to "pressure" them.

please explain why do you think today's "day of revolution" in egypt should put pressure on Israel to strike a deal and with whom.
Israel needs Egypt more than Egypt needs Israel right now.
  #1411  
Old 25.01.2011, 15:36
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Israel needs Egypt more than Egypt needs Israel right now.
Try and explain that to one of Israel government officials and see what he has to say about that.
  #1412  
Old 25.01.2011, 22:24
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Try and explain that to one of Israel government officials and see what he has to say about that.
Sometimes, I think it more revealing not to look at what is said, but what goes unsaid, especially with regard to Obama and Tunisia. Drawing the public's focus to one particular aspect can often succeed in taking their attention off the bigger picture.
  #1413  
Old 25.01.2011, 22:27
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Sometimes, I think it more revealing not to look at what is said, but what goes unsaid, especially with regard to Obama
Yes.

I prefer to listen to what Obama doesn't say too.
  #1414  
Old 25.01.2011, 22:49
hoppy
 
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Yes.

I prefer to listen to what Obama doesn't say too.
Well here's one interpretation of his silence- of course there could be others

It isn't as if he doesn't have impressive oratory skills when he wants to use them.

http://spectator.org/blog/2011/01/25...will-obama-rem
  #1415  
Old 25.01.2011, 22:58
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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It isn't as if he doesn't have impressive oratory skills when he wants to use them.
Yes, Michelle always seems to walk around with a smile on her face, doesn't she?
  #1416  
Old 26.01.2011, 05:44
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Yes, Michelle always seems to walk around with a smile on her face, doesn't she?
Ai, ee's owrate e is! Yes, he's OK, he is!
  #1417  
Old 26.01.2011, 15:34
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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If (and it a very big if) Egypt will have a secular & democratic regime - this regime will push for more co-operation with Israel as it's sure to help the ordinary Egyptian (current economical cooperation is curtailed by the current Egyptian government) - so there will be no need to "pressure" them.

please explain why do you think today's "day of revolution" in egypt should put pressure on Israel to strike a deal and with whom.
My analysis: with time it will be more and more difficult for israel to strike a good deal with palestinians. So the longer Israel waits the less favourable conditions will be obtained. There are more international pressures from Latine American countries recognizing Palestinian State (Peru most recently), there are more european countries upgrading the status of Palestinian Authority. If there is a shift towards more democratic states in Egypt, Tunisia, and let's hope Jordan, Lebanon etc... the situation will be even be more favorable for Palestinians. It seems maybe far fetched but remember last year how you despised the recognition by Argentina, Brasil & Uruguay. It's accelerating.
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  #1418  
Old 26.01.2011, 16:28
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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My analysis: with time it will be more and more difficult for israel to strike a good deal with palestinians. So the longer Israel waits the less favourable conditions will be obtained. There are more international pressures from Latine American countries recognizing Palestinian State (Peru most recently), there are more european countries upgrading the status of Palestinian Authority. If there is a shift towards more democratic states in Egypt, Tunisia, and let's hope Jordan, Lebanon etc... the situation will be even be more favorable for Palestinians. It seems maybe far fetched but remember last year how you despised the recognition by Argentina, Brasil & Uruguay. It's accelerating.


I rarely make predictions, especially about the future your link made a false predication: Ireland was the first EU country to upgrade the Palestinian mission to an embassy .

If time is working for the Palestinians than there is no need for them to sign a deal: they should simply wait and their fellow arabs will push Israel to sign a better deal (or maybe even beat Israel altogether).

Maybe this is why the Palestinian leadership rejected a Palestinian state so many times before. (1936,1947,1967,1979,2000,2009 and maybe a few other times) note also that each time they are offered a worse deal - because time is working against them: Israel is getting stronger (economically, demographically, militarily).

The diplomatic recognition is important to the Palestinians - it makes the headlines, provides opportunities to appoint friends & family as ambassadors and travel the world first class (paid for by EU & US taxpayer money).

A democratic Jordan means a Palestinian Jordan (being the majority there) - why would they need another state ?
  #1419  
Old 26.01.2011, 17:54
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Will China be next?
  #1420  
Old 26.01.2011, 18:30
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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(..)
A democratic Jordan means a Palestinian Jordan (being the majority there) - why would they need another state ?
This is an israeli point of view I think. For most palestinians (west-bank, gaza) Jordan is hachemite kingdom. The point on Jerusalem is another one. So even if Jordan becomes democratic, Israel will still have to give terriories back to palestinian state.

I need to have a closer look at the documents published by Guardian & Aljazeera. Seems collaboration on security is very advanced. Many palestinian activists killed by Israel drones were localized, identified thanks to PA help.
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