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  #1421  
Old 26.01.2011, 20:28
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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This is an israeli point of view I think. For most palestinians (west-bank, gaza) Jordan is hachemite kingdom. The point on Jerusalem is another one. So even if Jordan becomes democratic, Israel will still have to give terriories back to palestinian state.

I need to have a closer look at the documents published by Guardian & Aljazeera. Seems collaboration on security is very advanced. Many palestinian activists killed by Israel drones were localized, identified thanks to PA help.
Yes - Jordan is run by an imported pro-western Saudi dynasty. If it becomes a democracy why should the palestinians (the majority) accept it ? some may even remember 1970 and would like to reply in kind.

Why do call Islamist terrorists "activists" ? The main (only?) reason for the PA survival is Israeli support against Hamas. where Israel didn't help (Gaza) Hamas killed PLO members ("activists", sorry).
  #1422  
Old 26.01.2011, 23:06
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Yes - Jordan is run by an imported pro-western Saudi dynasty. If it becomes a democracy why should the palestinians (the majority) accept it ? some may even remember 1970 and would like to reply in kind.

Why do call Islamist terrorists "activists" ? The main (only?) reason for the PA survival is Israeli support against Hamas. where Israel didn't help (Gaza) Hamas killed PLO members ("activists", sorry).
A) The Hashemites are from the Hedjaz and were driven out by the House of Sa'ud. So that the two dynasties are at best tolerating each other and at worst hating each other. When Emir Abdullah arrived in Damascus after the victory over the Turkish Empire, he did not get what became Palestine, Syria, Iraq and the Arabian Peninsula but only Trans-Jordan, the link-up between the British mandate territory of Palestine and British Mesopotamia. No, the Hashemites were NOT "imported" from the West. And were well place in Mekkah when the Sa'uds just were local rulers in a part of the Nejd
B) Hamas only got up in Gaza due to Israel in reality tolerating or even supporting them as a tool against the PLO, as the Israeli planners well realized that to have a panMuslim minded organisation fighting a club of pan-Arab organisations fighting each other was to the advantage of Israel in the way of "Divid ed impera", at least until Hamas developed into a real nuisance
  #1423  
Old 27.01.2011, 00:22
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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My analysis: with time it will be more and more difficult for israel to strike a good deal with palestinians. So the longer Israel waits the less favourable conditions will be obtained. There are more international pressures from Latine American countries recognizing Palestinian State (Peru most recently), there are more european countries upgrading the status of Palestinian Authority. If there is a shift towards more democratic states in Egypt, Tunisia, and let's hope Jordan, Lebanon etc... the situation will be even be more favorable for Palestinians. It seems maybe far fetched but remember last year how you despised the recognition by Argentina, Brasil & Uruguay. It's accelerating.
You can now add Paraguay to the list and this from China:

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China said it is ready to renew its recognition of a Palestinian state amid growing moves by Latin America states, a report said.

Recently Bolivia has recognized Palestine as an independent state, following the lead of Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay.

Chinese Deputy Foreign Minister Zhia Jun told Asharq Al-Awsat in a statement, "China is prepared to renew its recognition of a Palestinian state if the UN Security Council or the United Nations pass such a resolution."

He reminded that China was "one of the first countries that recognized the PLO in the 1960s".
http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=67700

All this talk of Jordan and wait till there is a better deal on the table are all delay tactics.

Still reading the Egyptian book that you recommendedPashosh? What was the name of it again?

Other than a Nuclear arsenal, does Israel have any more big sticks?

Last edited by hoppy; 27.01.2011 at 00:35.
  #1424  
Old 11.02.2011, 15:27
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

The peace process, iPhone version

  #1425  
Old 19.02.2011, 10:42
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

US vetoed again a UN security council decision to condemn israeli illegal colonization of palestinian territories. The US appears completely isolated as the other 14 members agreed on the document supported by 120 out of 192 state members of UN.
The most irrational aspect of US decision is that they've been calling for months the israeli government to stop colonization. Apparently Obama likes to speak to deaf walls and appears to be weaker everytime he tries something in the middle-east.

It will be interesting to observe the reaction of palestinian population in the lights of the recent revolutions in other arab countries.
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  #1426  
Old 19.02.2011, 12:10
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

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Iran (Shia ruled) is arming Hizbollah (Lebanese Shia) to give Palestinians (mostly Sunni, ever decreasing Christian population) their water ?
The Palestinians, many of whom even for a while trusted the in fact ANTI-Palestinian Hussein al-Takriti, might better realize yesterday, that Iran and Hizbullah are not anti-Israeli in order to help the Palestinians, but only to secure the Iranian foothold on the Levantine coastline. And the Hizbullah fans in Lebanon might better realize yesterday that the Iranians just use them as a tool (nothing to do with religion in reality) to bring the old Persian-Iranian dream of a Persian role in the Mediterranean into reality
  #1427  
Old 19.02.2011, 12:13
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Didn't Iranian president threaten to bomb Israel too? Be happy that your 82 year old grandmother has lived such a long life. The way I am tucking into ice cream and peanut butter I won't even make it past 50.
No, he did NOT ! He threatened that SOMEBODY would do so one day. But the Iranians have no desire to get dirty hands and run into risks. They mean "somebody else" by saying "somebody"
  #1428  
Old 19.02.2011, 12:25
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Iran is one of the main cash funders and weapon supplier to the gaza area.

Further, Ahmadinejad publicly announced that Israel should be destroyed.

The virus (stuxnet) was according to the Tagesanzeiger developed by the United States and Israel.

And yeah Israel dose not want Iran to get hold of a nuclear bomb, i dont think
thy are making a secret out of it.

And didnt the Israelis concur that land during one of the wars which thy did NOT start. Well your loss if you start a war take into consideration it will cost you..
Hamas financed by Iran ? Even if the international media repeats this story again and again and even if Mr Ahmedinejad busily supports Hamas verbally, the actual support for Hamas comes from people in Saudi Arabia. Sorry, I do not have any bank-payment-transaction-records in my hands, but I also never have seen any such records showing payments from Tehran to the account(s) of Hamas.

Ahmedinejad, as you rightly mention, continously states that "Israel should be destroyed" but if you read the transcripts properly you can see that it is his opinions that it should be somebody else doing the job. His government would rise up to a standing ovation

Iran at present is not developing a Nuclear Bomb but is developing nuclear energy for civilian purposes. The Israelis however (out of their very own experience ) know that a country which has the technological knowledge and ability on the civilian side, can develop nuclear bombs within 2 to 5 years. I think that Mossad would realize when Iran shifted programs towards bombs and I expect Israel then to act militarily within a few months. I hope we all get spared that development and its possible indirect consequences.

They did not start ? The 1956 war WAS started by the U.K., France and Israel, on the initiative of UK Prime Minister Anthony Eden who wanted the Suez-Canal back. The 1967 war WAS started by Israel, even if declared to be a "preemptive strike" but the Israelis failed to prove that a strike from the other side was imminent and in the pipeline. And "preemptive strikes" ARE attacks. If you beat somebody to pulp and declare it to have been a "preemptive action" the court will sentence you as THE attacker nevertheless.
  #1429  
Old 14.03.2011, 04:36
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Is the world busy looking the other way? Right! Time to push ahead with more illegal settlements.

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Last year, according to Israel’s Central Bureau of Statistics, the settlers began building at least 114 housing units and completed an additional 1,175 units during the settlement moratorium. In the last three months of 2010, work began on 427 new units, according to an analysis by Peace Now, an Israeli advocacy group that opposes settlement construction. Most of that was private construction in small, outlying settlements, rather than state-sponsored building in the larger settlements of the blocs.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/wo...rael.html?_r=1
  #1430  
Old 12.04.2011, 21:40
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Meanwhile in the west bank: Fatah minister celebrates a massacre. Not unlike Gaddafi, but without the dress-sense.

..and these are the people supported by the west ?
  #1431  
Old 12.04.2011, 22:53
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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..................Iran at present is not developing a Nuclear Bomb but is developing nuclear energy for civilian purposes........
So why is Iran enriching uranium?

some comments
  • In February 2010, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) issued a report scolding Iran for failing to explain purchases of sensitive technology as well as secret tests of high-precision detonators and modified designs of missile cones to accommodate larger payloads. Such experiments are closely associated with atomic warheads.
  • In May 2010, the IAEA issued a report that Iran had declared production of over 2.5 metric tons of low-enriched uranium, which would be enough if further enriched to make two nuclear weapons, and that Iran has refused to answer inspectors’ questions on a variety of activities, including what the agency called the “possible military dimensions” of Iran's nuclear program
If you have evidence that Iran is not developing a Nuclear Bomb then I promise to start believing in the Tooth Fairy.
  #1432  
Old 12.04.2011, 22:56
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Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end

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The Palestinians, many of whom even for a while trusted the in fact ANTI-Palestinian Hussein al-Takriti, might better realize yesterday, that Iran and Hizbullah are not anti-Israeli in order to help the Palestinians, but only to secure the Iranian foothold on the Levantine coastline. And the Hizbullah fans in Lebanon might better realize yesterday that the Iranians just use them as a tool (nothing to do with religion in reality) to bring the old Persian-Iranian dream of a Persian role in the Mediterranean into reality
Good summary; you only have to see how Iran treats Sunnis within their own borders to understand their aims for Palestine.

& what at first looked like an April Fool jape seems to be real "Richard Goldstone, the Chief Investigator of the UN Human Rights Council’s investigation into war crimes and violations by Israel and Hamas during Israel’s 2008-9 invasion of Gaza, created a diplomatic stir when he published an op-ed entitled “Reconsidering the Goldstone Report on Israeli War Crimes”."
  #1433  
Old 12.04.2011, 23:16
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Meanwhile in the west bank: Fatah minister celebrates a massacre. Not unlike Gaddafi, but without the dress-sense.

..and these are the people supported by the west ?
The celebration of the Itamar massacre last month was not enough?

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/34164...ms-looks-like/

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...041106,00.html
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  #1434  
Old 12.04.2011, 23:27
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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The celebration of the Itamar massacre last month was not enough?
32% of palestinians supported the massacre. niiiiiice. But no worries - once they have a state all the middle east's problems will disappear.
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  #1435  
Old 12.04.2011, 23:54
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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32% of palestinians supported the massacre. niiiiiice. But no worries - once they have a state all the middle east's problems will disappear.
An interview on al-Jazeera about Jerusalem & Islam --
"So far, there are already two Palestinian states .... a state in Gaza, and a state which -- God willing will be in the West Bank. But if the Palestinians continue negotiating irresponsibly, there will be a state in Hebron, a state in Ramallah, a state in Nablus and a state in Jenin ..."

  #1436  
Old 13.04.2011, 00:07
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Israeli soldiers don't let a pregnant Palestinian woman pass through a military barricade

  #1437  
Old 13.04.2011, 02:22
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Meanwhile in the west bank: Fatah minister celebrates a massacre. Not unlike Gaddafi, but without the dress-sense.

..and these are the people supported by the west ?
Gee on one thread we have Pashosh quoting from the Ministry of Israeli Affairs and on the Egypt thread we have Deep Purple quoting from PressTV- C'mon guys
  #1438  
Old 13.04.2011, 02:37
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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So why is Iran enriching uranium?

some comments
  • In February 2010, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) issued a report scolding Iran for failing to explain purchases of sensitive technology as well as secret tests of high-precision detonators and modified designs of missile cones to accommodate larger payloads. Such experiments are closely associated with atomic warheads.
  • In May 2010, the IAEA issued a report that Iran had declared production of over 2.5 metric tons of low-enriched uranium, which would be enough if further enriched to make two nuclear weapons, and that Iran has refused to answer inspectors’ questions on a variety of activities, including what the agency called the “possible military dimensions” of Iran's nuclear program
If you have evidence that Iran is not developing a Nuclear Bomb then I promise to start believing in the Tooth Fairy.
It's all hype I don't believe that the west is too worried otherwise they wouldn't keep defying sanctions and trading with them. When it gets too much then there's always 'Stuxnet 2' I guess

And then there's this:

Quote:
And now it is not in the way, or not in the way in the same way. Notice the way the State Department’s top legal adviser just last night at Yale said that Obama had a great victory in Goldstone’s recanting part of his report.
But now inside the Israel lobby and the Jewish establishment, J Street has taken credit for delivering Goldstone’s scalp. They may well deserve that credit. And this delivery, which was urgently sought by the most rightwing supporters of Israel, thereby increases J Street’s power and gives it greater clout in pushing its agenda with Barack Obama. J Street ceases to be the black sheep of the Israel lobby. No: it is a powerhouse. It can raise more money, and give Obama wiggleroom to finally pressure
http://www.eurasiareview.com/goldsto...oped-12042011/

Go jstreet, go Jstreet.......... yeah yeah yeah! Clever huh?
  #1439  
Old 13.04.2011, 10:59
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Gee on one thread we have Pashosh quoting from the Ministry of Israeli Affairs and on the Egypt thread we have Deep Purple quoting from PressTV- C'mon guys
Although Pashosh was quoting from a Ministry of Israeli Affair article/link,
the page includes an image of the original PA daily al-Hayat in Arabic.

-- The PA daily al-Hayat reports on Palestinian Minister Karake's award of honor to Hamas
terrorist Abbas al-Sayed (28 March 2011). "

http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/D.../0/ALHAYAT.jpg

  #1440  
Old 13.04.2011, 13:37
hoppy
 
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Although Pashosh was quoting from a Ministry of Israeli Affair article/link,
the page includes an image of the original PA daily al-Hayat in Arabic.

-- The PA daily al-Hayat reports on Palestinian Minister Karake's award of honor to Hamas
terrorist Abbas al-Sayed (28 March 2011). "

http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/D.../0/ALHAYAT.jpg

I'm sure that many Israelis celebrate the illegal bulldozing of Palestinian homes. Anyway they have Abbas al-Sayed in isolation for over a year with no family visits- he is on hunger strike against his conditions

http://humanityvoice.net/news_details.php?id=6423

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