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  #1561  
Old 25.05.2011, 23:51
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

More good news: Egypt will open the border with Gaza this Saturday.

I wonder what would the Hamas tunnel owners do ? or the Flottila trouble tourists ?

Gazans could now enjoy medical treatment in Egypt, rather then suffer in Israeli hospitals. They could use the Egyptian pound rather then the Zionist Shekel.

Palestinians from East Rafah could drink tea with their Egyptian families in West Rafah.

Bye Bye Erez, hello El Arish.
  #1562  
Old 26.05.2011, 14:02
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Lloyds: No insurance for any ship sailing to Gaza.
  #1563  
Old 26.05.2011, 17:57
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Multiple posts-You sound so angry Pahosh, I picture you having a Rumplestilitskin fit!
  #1564  
Old 27.05.2011, 16:10
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Apparently, the Rafah crossing will be open to people only, not goods.

This will keep the Hamas smugglers in business, as well as the corrupt Egyptian officers - but no revenue for the new "combined" government.

.
  #1565  
Old 27.05.2011, 17:18
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Apparently, the Rafah crossing will be open to people only, not goods.

This will keep the Hamas smugglers in business, as well as the corrupt Egyptian officers - but no revenue for the new "combined" government.

.
man, you REALLY are evil!
  #1566  
Old 27.05.2011, 17:29
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Apparently, the Rafah crossing will be open to people only, not goods.

This will keep the Hamas smugglers in business, as well as the corrupt Egyptian officers - but no revenue for the new "combined" government.

.
What do you think of the US sanctions against the Israelis selling tankers to Iran? There must be a fine line between breaking sanctions and smuggling- I'm not sure what it is? It seems like there is still a brisk 2-way trade; Rules? What Rules?

Quote:
Even as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was praising the United States in a speech on Tuesday for imposing tougher sanctions on Iran for its nuclear activities, the State Department announced that it was imposing sanctions on a leading Israeli company, Ofer Brothers Group, for activities supporting Iran’s energy sector.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/27/wo.../27israel.html
  #1567  
Old 27.05.2011, 18:25
hoppy
 
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

I mean it really is an interesting question:

Compare this:

Quote:
"We talked a great deal about stopping oil smuggling, but there was never any concerted attempt by the UK or US on the ground to prevent breaches of sanctions.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...smuggling.html

with this:

Quote:
At the economic level, the most profound criminalizing result of sanctions can be to push economic activity underground and
dramatically inflate the profitability of illicit commerce. Aboveground trading relationships can be supplanted by underground trading relationships, creating clandestine region-wide sanctions-evading networks that reshape the political economy of the region and that may endure beyond the sanctions. Sanctions can create an economic opportunity structure that privileges those best positioned in the underground economy, enhancing the value of their smuggling skills and connections.
This, in turn, can redistribute wealth and favor, helping to propel the emergence of a nouveau riche elite. Unable or unwilling to shift to legal trading after sanctions are
TABLE 1. Potential Criminalizing Consequences of Sanctions


State apparatus State sponsors organize crime to generate funds and secure supplies; foster alliances with clandestine transnational economic
actors; subcontract out sanctions busting tasks and provide privileged access in exchange for loyalty and support Persistence of symbiosis between
state and organized crime; high levels of corruption and entrenched resistance to reform and establishment of rule of law
Economy Underground economy expands through sanctions evasion while above ground economy contracts and goes into crisis; emergence of new elite as power and wealth of smuggling entrepreneurs grows while those in the aboveground economy are marginalized
Continued high levels of underground economic activity as sanctions-busting networks adapt and diversify while the aboveground economy struggles to recover from sanctions; new elite selectively move into other sectors of the economy
Civil society Broad societal tolerance of smuggling;smuggling perceived as‘‘normal;’’ ‘‘uncivil society’’ empowered Continued high societal acceptance
of smuggling; engagement in smuggling economy broadly viewed
as a legitimate avenue of upward social mobility
Regional repercussions Regional sanctions-busting networks
develop with official complicity of neighbors; aboveground trade relations
with targeted country collapse while underground trade relations expand
(clandestine side of economic interdependence becomes dominant);cross-border crime linkages grow
Lifting sanctions generates shock wave through regional sanctions
evading trade routes; sanctionsbusting networks persist and are adapted for other smuggling activities

Modifies and extends the framework in Crawford and Klotz (1999:30).
1
There is no consensus in the literature on the use and definition of the term ‘‘underground economy,’’ but for my purposes here I am mostly interested in those underground economic activities related to the evasion of
sanctions, which largely involves some form of smuggling. 336 Criminalizing Consequences of Sanctionslifted, sanctions evaders may simply engage in substitution strategies, turning to other illegal trading activities. Incentives to enter or continue operating in the underground economy can be reinforced by the devastated condition of the aboveground economy after sanctions. At the societal level, the most significant criminalizing consequence of sanctions is the potential of fostering ‘‘uncivil society,’’reflected in a higher level of public tolerance for lawbreaking and an undermined respect for the rule of law. Smuggling may not only become perceived as ‘‘normal’’ rather than deviant, but it may even be celebrated as patriotic. Even in countries with extreme levels of corruption, there tends to be official disapproval of smuggling, but this may be eroded under sanctions. The result can be a general legal
demoralization as society becomes accustomed to practices that do not conform to modern legal standards. Reestablishing societal acceptance of legal norms can be one of the most challenging tasks after sanctions are lifted, as old habits can be difficult to break
.
Table 1 summarizes these potential political, economic, and societal criminalizing consequences of sanctions
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Pol..._sanctions.pdf

Having read this, I see defying sanctions and smuggling as a strategy to cope with sanctions as the same thing. Some use tunnels others use connections and influence at the highest levels. Which is morally more reprehensible- smuggling cement to build homes destroyed by occupiers or supplying tankers to a country you accuse of supporting terrorism, for financial gain?
  #1568  
Old 27.05.2011, 21:05
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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man, you REALLY are evil!
Evil ? why ?
  #1569  
Old 28.05.2011, 01:14
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Evil ? why ?
you are bothered by 1 million imprisoned human beings receiving a little relief?

not only evil but utterly disgusting
  #1570  
Old 28.05.2011, 07:43
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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you are bothered by 1 million imprisoned human beings receiving a little relief?

not only evil but utterly disgusting
You missunderstood - I'm happy that now gazans can now travel to Egypt. they lived under egyptian rule for 19 years, so they know what to expect.

Maybe Turkey will follow the Egyptian lead and open the Armenian border ?

Last edited by Pashosh; 28.05.2011 at 08:06.
  #1571  
Old 28.05.2011, 09:13
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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you are bothered by 1 million imprisoned human beings receiving a little relief?

not only evil but utterly disgusting
I am just interested to know how many out of the million imprisoned will flee the nest now the door is open or will decide to stay.
And what reasons will be put forward to justify whatever happens.

Just seen the following "Men aged between 18 and 40 will be excluded from leaving Gaza without an entry visa to Egypt"
& as mentioned before there is no commercial traffic allowed only people.
  #1572  
Old 03.06.2011, 18:42
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

  #1573  
Old 07.06.2011, 16:32
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

It's not acceptable to burn a church.
It's not acceptable to burn a synagog
It's also not acceptable to burn a mosque.

Not surprsing after the "Jerusalem Day" march with hundreds of ultra-right israeli nationalist shouting "death to arabs" and other racist slogans....but no single post from pashosh condemning this so far although he's very prompt at condeming palestinians, muslims or arabs oif they make the slightest anti-semitic remark or action.
  #1574  
Old 07.06.2011, 17:28
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

synagogue is spelled with an ue.

Let's divide the work - I'll apologize to Jews behaving badly. You will do the same for Arabs/Muslims. You did promise to condemn antisemitic/racist/violent activity but so far failed to do so.

Ok ?
  #1575  
Old 07.06.2011, 17:44
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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synagogue is spelled with an ue.

Let's divide the work - I'll apologize to Jews behaving badly. You will do the same for Arabs/Muslims. You did promise to condemn antisemitic/racist/violent activity but so far failed to do so.

Ok ?
- we can also argue about spelling if you think we don't have topics to argue about. I think synagog is accepted as alternative spelling.

- Enough divisions among human beings. I condemn all violent acts coming from any violent racist human being regardless of religion, race or belief.
  #1576  
Old 07.06.2011, 18:06
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

You condemn what ?
In last week alone arabs killed hunderds, arrested, toturtured, burned and bombed, but you kept quiet until a mosque was burned (no casualties).

"
  #1577  
Old 07.06.2011, 18:18
hoppy
 
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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synagogue is spelled with an ue.

Let's divide the work - I'll apologize to Jews behaving badly. You will do the same for Arabs/Muslims. You did promise to condemn antisemitic/racist/violent activity but so far failed to do so.

Ok ?
I am not going to apologize to anyone behaving badly or even for anyone behaving badly, they must stop the behaviour/ behavior- that's it.
  #1578  
Old 07.06.2011, 18:22
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

This user would like to thank Uncle Max for this useful post:
  #1579  
Old 07.06.2011, 18:49
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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You condemn what ?
In last week alone arabs killed hunderds, arrested, toturtured, burned and bombed, but you kept quiet until a mosque was burned (no casualties).

"
with this mentality you can only be a one-eyed bookkeeper. Please record in your excel sheets who condemned and who didn't, and put weights on the crimes, make your calculations and tell us who are the bad ones. Have fun!
  #1580  
Old 07.06.2011, 20:59
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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with this mentality you can only be a one-eyed bookkeeper. Please record in your excel sheets who condemned and who didn't, and put weights on the crimes, make your calculations and tell us who are the bad ones. Have fun!
No need for excel to see which side in the Arab-Israeli conflict is more violent & racist. The fact that a lightly charred mosque made it to the news is proof enough (no qurans were burned, phew).

As for fun - The Tel Aviv Gay pride parade is on this Friday.
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