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  #1601  
Old 08.08.2011, 13:05
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Syrian, Yemen thread do not need to be full of posts when everyone agree that the dictator and murderer needs to be removed. Interesting is Israel when people like pashosh spend their time doing PR for netanyahu here and projecting an image of a perfect Israel. By the way people in Israel protest also against the corruption and plutocratic government. I am very glad people of Israel woke up.
Do not want to take sides here but about "people in Israel protest also against...."

Refreshing change that nobody is shooting/knifing/beating up these peaceful protestors.
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Old 08.08.2011, 13:22
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Do not want to take sides here but about "people in Israel protest also against...."

Refreshing change that nobody is shooting/knifing/beating up these peaceful protestors.
the least we can expect from a democracy. We are not talking here about arab dictators slaughtering their own population.
  #1603  
Old 08.08.2011, 13:40
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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The palestinians have already 2 states, automomic to a very large degree:

Gaza - badly run by Hamas (Islamo Fascists)
West Bank - badly run by Fatah (terrified that Hamas will take over).

Assuming they will succesfully run a country once "free" from Israel is über-naive. I'm sorry if reality offends you.

You want Israel to risk Israeli lives by allowing an openly violent, racist regime to take over WB&G. thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather be called Racist by someone who thinks the MB will run Egypt better than Mubarak and that Netanyahu is a Hamas supporter.

One of the big differences between the Israel and Egyptian demonstrations is that if the Israelis are not happy with their government they can vote for another one. the Egyptians are still not able to do so, much less all the other aran countries.
Egypt is not Gaza, it is about time that you stopped describing all Arabs as being the same. Not all Jews are the same nor are the Arabs.

In Egypt the voting has been a hopeless endevour for years, everyone knew that the vote would be rigged in favour of Muburak. Clearly you favour Muburak (perhaps he is one of the Egyptian friends that you complain has been dispossessed) but the Egyptians do not and they are making it plainly heard. Egypt belongs to the Egyptian people, at least now they have more involvement than before, although clearly they are still being suppressed by this military government. Egypt does not belong to Israel nor is it at Israel's beck and call anymore- so get over it, you have no control of Egypt, nor right to any control. The US Jews are beginning to favour JStreet. AIPAC and Netanyahu are out of favour. As far as Hamas can be reasoned with JStreet are the ones to do it.
  #1604  
Old 08.08.2011, 20:52
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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I'm not surprised you're a big fan of Mubarak because you hate egyptian people. You spend your time here shouting about arab dictators but you're one of their biggest supporter because they are as corrupted as the israeli right-wing leadership.
Like always - you ran out of facts, and turned to ad hominems and lies.

1. unlike you, I'm a fan of facts - not Mubarak. Mubarak was the first Egyptian leader not to start a war and he did develop Egyptian economy. Much better than most Arab dictators, but still streets behind of what is excpected from a decent leader.

2. Israeli right wing politicians as corrupt as arab ones ? they may try, but then they are tried and sent to jail. none of them even came close to abysmal Arab standards. btw - the most corrupt came from centerist Kadima.

3. Arab refugees - ran or driven away during a war, the Jews were driven away from Muslim countries by sheer racism (See Pakistan's jews for example). the Arab population in Israel is growing, but hardly any Jews left in the Arab world.

4. Israeli Democracy - Finally: a factual post. The demonstations in TLV are considered one of the most fun things to do with your clothes on. Or off:
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Last edited by Pashosh; 08.08.2011 at 21:03.
  #1605  
Old 08.08.2011, 21:33
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Like always - you ran out of facts, and turned to ad hominems and lies.

1. unlike you, I'm a fan of facts - not Mubarak. Mubarak was the first Egyptian leader not to start a war and he did develop Egyptian economy. Much better than most Arab dictators, but still streets behind of what is excpected from a decent leader.
Normal you like him....he agreed to sell gaz to Israel at below market price. If developing a country means stealing it and torturing its people then there is no hope for you.

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2. Israeli right wing politicians as corrupt as arab ones ? they may try, but then they are tried and sent to jail. none of them even came close to abysmal Arab standards. btw - the most corrupt came from centerist Kadima.
Liebermann's case alone will keep us busy with morals in israeli right-wing politicians.

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  #1606  
Old 08.08.2011, 22:04
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Normal you like him....he agreed to sell gaz to Israel at below market price. If developing a country means stealing it and torturing its people then there is no hope for you.

Liebermann's case alone will keep us busy with morals in israeli right-wing politicians.

What is the "market price" for Gas ? let's see how lucrative the Gas market will be when Egypt tries to sell it elsewhere.
Of course Mubarak was corrupt (which Arab leader isn't ?) but being in Israel's pocket ? if that was the case why didn't he stem the flow of weapons to Gaza or Fight against the rampant antisemitism in Egypt or Increase trade with Israel ? Mubarak was in business for Mubarak Inc.

Liebermann is a dodgy politician, but nowhere near Mubarak (for starters - he doesnt run a country). you can compare him to Dominique de Villepin (another dodgy foreign minister).
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Old 08.08.2011, 22:40
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Like always - you ran out of facts, and turned to ad hominems and lies.

.......... Or off:
I am sure this lady could persuade me, whatever the topic.
  #1608  
Old 08.08.2011, 23:01
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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the least we can expect from a democracy. We are not talking here about arab dictators slaughtering their own population.
Are these the same dictators you want Israel to give land to in return for peace ?
  #1609  
Old 08.08.2011, 23:06
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Are these the same dictators you want Israel to give land to in return for peace ?
Israel will not give....it will just return it to legit owner.
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Old 08.08.2011, 23:07
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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What about all the Jews that lived in Arab countries, and were
forced to immigrate, leaving behind all their land, houses, assets, etc?

Reading in wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_...slim_countries :

In total it is estimated that 800,000 to 1,000,000 Jews were forced out or fled from their homes in Arab countries from 1948 until the early 1970s. Some place the emigration peak to a slightly earlier time window of 1944 to 1964, when some 700,000 Jews moved to Israel from Arab countries and were dispossessed of nearly their entire property.[26]
A body representing the Jewish refugees, the World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries (WOJAC) estimated in 2006, that Jewish property abandoned in Arab countries would be valued at more than $100 billion, later revising their estimate in 2007 to $300 billion. They also estimated Jewish-owned real-estate left behind in Arab lands at 100,000 square kilometers (four times the size of the state of Israel).[1][7][27][28] estimated by Sidney Zabludoff to be at minimum $700 million in period prices and $6 billion today.[7] The organization asserts that a major cause of the Jewish exodus was a deliberate policy decision taken by the Arab League.[29] In 2007, a Jewish advocacy group JJAC (Justice for Jews from Arab Countries) has too alleged that Arab League members formulated a coordinated policy to expel or force the departure of the Jewish population.[30][31][32]
Nice statistic now start reading some bookshttp://jewishrefugees.blogspot.com/
  #1611  
Old 08.08.2011, 23:28
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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What is the "market price" for Gas ? let's see how lucrative the Gas market will be when Egypt tries to sell it elsewhere.
Of course Mubarak was corrupt (which Arab leader isn't ?) but being in Israel's pocket ? if that was the case why didn't he stem the flow of weapons to Gaza or Fight against the rampant antisemitism in Egypt or Increase trade with Israel ? Mubarak was in business for Mubarak Inc.
That's why Benjamin Ben Eliezer offered political asylum to Mubarak.

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Liebermann is a dodgy politician, but nowhere near Mubarak (for starters - he doesnt run a country). you can compare him to Dominique de Villepin (another dodgy foreign minister).
Your choice of de Villepin is not surprising since he's not very liked by the right-wing israeli lobby groups in France and elsewhere. What is surprising is your comparison with Liebermann regarding corruption. You either underestimate Liebermann's level of corruption or you want just to falsely give the impression to the reader that de Villepin is a corrupt politician.
  #1612  
Old 08.08.2011, 23:42
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Israel will not give....it will just return it to legit owner.
A "legit owner" who is a murderous, racist, dictator. figures. remind me where this worked before ?

If Ben Eliezer can offer Mubarak asylum, I can offer Mubarak strawberry flavoured cancer cure - last time I checked he doesnt hold any government position.

btw - did you figure out what is the "market price" for Gas ?
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Old 08.08.2011, 23:49
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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A "legit owner" who is a murderous, racist, dictator. figures. remind me where this worked before ?

If Ben Eliezer can offer Mubarak asylum, I can offer Mubarak strawberry flavoured cancer cure - last time I checked he doesnt hold any government position.

btw - did you figure out what is the "market price" for Gas ?
you know exactly what I am referring to for the Gas deal. Don't try to hide the real issue by your questions on gaz market price.
  #1614  
Old 09.08.2011, 00:09
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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you know exactly what I am referring to for the Gas deal. Don't try to hide the real issue by your questions on gaz market price.
from your link:
"Fahmy is being charged with selling gas to seven countries including Israel at prices below those on world markets. "

I checked with Ben Eliezer, he said:

"I can't belive it, like in the souk in Cairo - he told me he will make me a special price, but sold it cheaper to 6 others !"

Is there such thing as a "Market price for Gas" ? if 40% of the cost is shipping, then the price for near markets (like Israel) should be lower than remote ones. but don't let me confuse you with facts. Everybody knows that Mubarak was Israel's Bitch and has a house in Ariel.
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Old 09.08.2011, 00:27
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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(....bla bla removed....)
Is there such thing as a "Market price for Gas" ? if 40% of the cost is shipping, then the price for near markets (like Israel) should be lower than remote ones. but don't let me confuse you with facts. Everybody knows that Mubarak was Israel's Bitch and has a house in Ariel.
Mr. Facts you surely now that more than 70% of traded gas goes over pipelines, the rest being LNG. So your shipping prices argument is like your usual argumentation just full of hot air (another gas). Of course all the egyptien investigation experts are too stupid and just comparing gas prices on internet. Sometimes your are to be pitied when I read the type of arguments you use.
  #1616  
Old 09.08.2011, 00:50
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Mr. Facts you surely now that more than 70% of traded gas goes over pipelines, the rest being LNG.
Egypt doesnt have LNG capability and pipelines are not free either. The pipelline to Israel & Jordan was blown up 5 times since Mubarak has left the building - and now not even the cheap Gas is sold. What joy for the Anti Israeli crowds who are always ready to cut their noses to spite their faces.

As for Egyptian investigation experts: we've seen those before with all the "spies" they catch. They know that Israel is the ultimate Wikipedia reference-linkEmmanuel_Goldstein and will milk it for all it's worth. it works - you bought it.
  #1617  
Old 09.08.2011, 15:22
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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I am sure this lady could persuade me, whatever the topic.
Just fur Marton:

http://www.sodahead.com/fun/da-vinci...stion-1917183/
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Old 09.08.2011, 15:47
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

Maybe we should approach Israel with the following offer, that's if MrVertigo
thinks its fair.

Israel will return all the lands that thy occupie mostly for self defence reasons IF all the arab countries return all those lands and assets taken from jews when thy were forced to leave arab countries out of pure anti-Semitism ?

Anyone here on ef work in the UN and could get this approved ?

Also MrVertigo how can u compare the Israel demonstrations going on at the moment to any of the other arab spring demos, its been going of for a bunch of days now and still hsnt claimed any lifes, both arabs and jews are participating here and trying to achieve the same thing ?
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Old 09.08.2011, 16:05
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

By no means I want to downplay the importance of the discussion in the tens of pages of this thread, but here is an interesting take on Israel - and my sentiments exactly, in a funny way

Cheers!

  #1620  
Old 09.08.2011, 16:08
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Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2

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Maybe we should approach Israel with the following offer, that's if MrVertigo
thinks its fair.

Israel will return all the lands that thy occupie mostly for self defence reasons IF all the arab countries return all those lands and assets taken from jews when thy were forced to leave arab countries out of pure anti-Semitism ?

Anyone here on ef work in the UN and could get this approved ?

Also MrVertigo how can u compare the Israel demonstrations going on at the moment to any of the other arab spring demos, its been going of for a bunch of days now and still hsnt claimed any lifes, both arabs and jews are participating here and trying to achieve the same thing ?
Perhaps Saudi Arabia will foot the bill if the land is restored to its former state- this includes importing olive trees that will exactly replace the centuries old groves that were destroyed. Never mind a few olive branches, whole orchards were destroyed.
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