No, I would NOT go as far as this. He quite obviously is NOT an extremist, even while being a strict Israeli nationalist (which is perfectly legal)

"Pashosh" has NOT used this line of "argument" which is praiseworthy.

Sorry, but the Arabs did NOT commit anything comparable to WWII or the anti-Jewish Genocide. You comparison is outright nonsense !

I detest to see Arabs and Israelis trying to "calculate up" who took over more and who drove out more and who did more massacre. You mention Germany and forget CDG. German Federal Chancellor Konrad Adenauer and French State President General Charles de Gaulle succeeded to overcome the past by NOT stamping around on such things but OVERCOMING the whole sh.... . BOTH knew about the whole sh... only too well, but decided that the past had to become the past. Imagine that Helmut Schmidt and Valéry Giscard d'Estaing as well as Helmut Kohl and François Mitterand WERE in their respective armies, but all four also simply did NOT trample around on what had happened in those 1000 years.

What do I mean ? I mean that we have to KNOW about the exact details of history as well as possible, but are NOT to calculate out blames. History does repeat itself ? or not ? whatever, let's try to avoid mistakes which in the past lead to such things.

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A) SVP in Switzerland is the largest party, but Switzerland is NOT ruled by the SVP .... so that even if the Islamists get their share in political power in Tunisia, Libya and Egypt, they are NOT ruling these countries
B) the most organized political forces ? What about the Wafd Party in Egypt ? Just to pick one of the forces you ignore.
C) the Boshevik in Russia did NOT win by democratic win but by the "destruction of the Constitutional assembly" and you may realize that one of the most influential persons in this was Mr Leo Davidovich Bronstein
D) Hizbullah is a lousy bunch, but they amazingly were ready to join the political mainstream. Interesting in their case to see that they became more "civil", not least after the past elections when the lost out against also Shi'ite Amal.

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The Arabs tried to commit genocide in 1948 and failed. The Arab declartions before 1967 also called for the annihilation of Israel.

But my point is that Arab countries have yet to face responsibility for what they have done: Mass expulsions, occupation, brutal treatment of minorities (not only jews) etc. Until a nation accepts responsibility for it's actions (like Germany did) the past remains an open wound (see Turkey's position regarding the Armenian genocide).

Israel is not blame free. But Israel has an open, free discussion about the Arab refugees, whereas Arab countries (which, at a minimum, share culpability) there is no such discussion.

Well, let's be fair - that's quite an undertaking for one person. Perhaps he was a trifle overambitious?

Remember that that friendship began at a time when the Versailles treaties were still fresh in people's minds and the consequences of peace solutions based on revenge rather than forgiveness were all too obvious. Fortunately deGaulle wasn't as thick as he sometimes acted and understood that going down that road a second time wasn't a good idea. It also helped that Adenauer, although he wasn't really on the same wavelength as deGaulle in many respects, recognised the opportunity and opened the doors to friendship.

So a peace solution modelled on the Franco-German one requires leaders on both sides who recognise the opportunity and push ahead with it. So far we are seeing too much "yes we do want peace but ..." type of talk. A real opportunity was opened when Barak and Rabin were in charge but Arafat totally failed to recognise that and the Palestinian reaction only helped bring harder and less compromising leaders to power in Israel.

Hellooooo! Do you want me to drag that up?

Besides I am Swiss fluent English teacher- so it''ll cost you!

Really?

You and DB


Still watch Pashosh go silent while Uncle Max is thinking, please no let's not go there!

I no longer understand anything in this thread. What's a Swiss fluent English teacher? Is there supposed to be a comma in there somewhere? And what's this about Uncle Max thinking?

Puzzling, I tell you.

You're not alone.

This thread is a Dadaist work of art.

Pashosh posted:

I'll give you the daily wages of a Moroccan teacher if you find any post of mine which used this argument.

He was talking about using antisemitism in argument.


Q: Did Pashosh ever accuse anyone of antisemitism

A: Yes, he accused me and he and Uncle Max threatened to ban me because of it. I published some facts and they didn't like it so I was suspended.

However I agree with Pashosh when he warns that women in Iran may have also thought that Islamists would not take their privileges away.
I was one of those women., now when I go to Iran I have to wear a scarf and I hate it. Although I must add that it really does seem in some ways ineffectual in trying to suppress women's sexual power.

There is no doubt that heterosexual men are affected by women's sexuality, there have been several studies to show this. Women have a choice, they can wear the clothes that do not draw attention and be treated more seriously by men, or they can wear clothes that accentuate their attributes and have men go gaga.
I have turned my head more in Iran to look at beautiful women than anywhere else, for many their looks are their fortune and they flaunt it, they will get around any restrictions. In fact the restrictions only make men hungrier.

The problem for me is Sharia law. Sometimes this works in favour of women, especially if they are from powerful families. I have seen many men p..... whipped by their wives in Iran, because the woman has and controls her own money. My husband is the same, whatever he earns is to support the family, whatever I have or earn is mine. However, some women after divorce or death have nothing but their dowry, which may not be much, even if they have worked and contributed equally to the family.
So I think that Sharia law needs to be reformed when it comes to women.

I am in a quandary when it comes to Turkey, it seems to have found the balance, if other countries join their way then the world could be more stable. However 3 (or perhaps I am wrong maybe 4) generals recently resigned, for a while it was reported that there was no effective command of the air force. The forces are secularist.

I accept and agree with many of Pashosh's criticisms of Muslim countries, but there is also a lot of good which he seems unable to accept. Iran for instance is, much to the chagrin of western countries, doing well economically. I saw more wealth there than ever before. The very poor seem better off than under the Shah, the poor-middle class still suffer, the middle to better-off moan but are in fact are quite well off by Western standards. The rich are rich, they move freely internationally.

If the Arabs could reform Islam and unite they would be a formidable force. This could possibly happen, but it is not what many want to see.

If you want to find out what I am talking about specifically with Pashosh and others accusing me of antisemitism then you will have to go back over a year in this thread.

You assumed I wanted to understand.

Has anyone alse noticed that "Dadaist work of art" is an anagram of "Dead train wreck"?

Where did I ever write snipped hoppyness? That's strange!

Anyway Economisto, don't want to know now? Backing off? Maybe you were one of the ones who accused me of antosemitism and tried to get me banned?

There's no e in "Dadaist work of art" But death has something to so with what I'm talking about.

I guess I should lay off- I don't enjoy dragging others back through their own gutter.

And there's not really much of an o is antosemitism.

But it's the thought that counts.

So another brownie point ot Amogles. now Amogles, Weejeem, Economisto and DB are nitpicking my spelling, or Grammar or punctuation errors. It makes me feel like I'm still at school. Not much discussion on content? You are all obsessed with form and appearances.

It is time that I learned to type with more than 3 fingers though. Half the letters are missing from my keyboard from my nails hitting the keys. learning to type with all fingers will be painstaking. I guess if I can play piano I can do this- I hope it stops my hands from cramping up

Anyway, look MrVertigo and Mr Pashosh are quiet- what more do you want? They are probably busy reinforcing their skulls for the next head butting round.

what content do you want us to discuss?

You have said

1) some time ago somebody tried to have you banned for antisemitism. That is something you should discuss with the mods or those who accused you. It has nothing to do with me so how can I comment?

2) you said some stuff about women in Iran. The insight was interesting (and I give you credit for that) but it was a tangent to a tangent that doesn't really have much to with the main thread.

3) you said some stuff about sexual power and women, probably telling us more about you than the problem at hand. Ditto.

4) you said something about Sharia laws having to be adapted to better accomodate women's interests. Interesting topic again. But maybe you should be having that discussion with the mullahs. Islam has been discussed to death on the EF and the discusions only go around in circles. Ditto.

Back it up! Link please!

My original point was that while some claim that Pashosh has not accused people of antisemitism- I can tell you that he has, he accused me and tried to stop me from posting certain information. Eventually to stop me from posting that information, which was factual but considered antisemitic, I was not allowed to post for a while It was a type of caution and the only time that has happened to me.

Pashosh alluded to the fact that there are many Muslim women (and he specifically mentioned Iran) where women did not expect to lose their rights in a Muslim theocracy. This is one of the complaints he has against Islam, he is right, although it's a mixed bag. women have gained in some respects. It comes down to money and education as always- rich educated and physically attractive women generally do better than poor, uneducated and less physically attractive. Homosexuality is a bit of a joke as naturally some men are homosexual in Iran. Strangely I find Muslim men more tolerant than western men, although it is forbidden in Islam.
Som what type of person am I?

There are Muslims and Mullahs who are trying to interpret how the Koran can help modern day Muslims. This type of interpretation is a threat to some in Islam but also some in other religions or states. Many Israelis try to demonize Islam because their position is jeopardized by the increased acceptance of of Islam, You are right-demonizing Islam is an old argument but one that Pashosh still reverts to and sadly some take the bait and end up (seemingly) to defend extremist acts.

When it comes to discussing the extremism elements within Zionism then I am accused of antisemitism.

It's all terribly complicated and hot-tempered, this Middle East stuff, isn't it?!?!?

I'm surprised anyone can be bothered with it.

Turkey is the world leader in jailed journalists.

Hamas (or proxies) are still firing rockets at Israel - not at the army, that would be too difficult, but at civilians. May Israel borrow the Turkish model for a while ?