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-   -   Israel - Palestine - Part 2 (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/66389-israel-palestine-part-2-a.html)

05.11.2009 01:04

Israel - Palestine - Part 2
 
This thread is a continuation from here

Quote:

It was British!

So the Arabs that lived there must have been better off.

Stands to reason, dunnit?
Aye! Makes me wonder how things would have been if it was an American Mandate.

Pashosh 05.11.2009 01:08

Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hoppy (Post 599645)
.. I guess that the logic is give them guns so that they can fight to have their own water back.

Iran (Shia ruled) is arming Hizbollah (Lebanese Shia) to give Palestinians (mostly Sunni, ever decreasing Christian population) their water ?

Pashosh 05.11.2009 01:17

Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end
 
Quote:

It was British!

So the Arabs that lived there must have been better off.

Stands to reason, dunnit?
It was Turkish before that - it must have been great
And Mameluk before that - like Disneyland & St. moritz roleld into one
not to mention the Crusaders...

05.11.2009 01:28

Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pashosh (Post 599677)
Iran (Shia ruled) is arming Hizbollah (Lebanese Shia) to give Palestinians (mostly Sunni, ever decreasing Christian population) their water ?

Why not?there is nothing like a common enemy to enable people to band together.

Quote:

Israeli officials said yesterday that Hamas had tested a rocket with a range of 60 kilometers, enabling it to reach from Gaza to the Tel Aviv metropolitan area. “This is the type of weapon that could not be made in Gaza, and had to be brought in from outside,” Kam said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aGpKirues6c8

So where did Gaza get those from?

What Israel do not want at any cost is that the Arabs and Iranians band together against them. They have to play the Arabs and Iranians off against each other.

Remember what happened in Iran with the Quds Day demonstrations? With the new movement J street in the US I think that there is hope.

cannut 05.11.2009 01:34

Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pashosh (Post 599684)
It was Turkish before that - it must have been great
And Mameluk before that - like Disneyland & St. moritz roleld into one
not to mention the Crusaders...

OH yea where were the Jews ???

05.11.2009 01:46

Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end
 
The chrisitans are getting it from both the Muslims and Israelis Jews, but mosty it seems the Israeli Jews. Their numbers have reduced from 40% during the British mandate to just 5%. Shouldn't they then be allowed to have their own state? This is after all their land too?

Quote:

large number of prominent Palestinians that are Christian, including Hanan Ashrawi, Emile Habibi, the late Edward Said, Elia Suleiman, Atallah Mansour, Azmi Bishara, Anis Shorrosh[8], Nayef Hawatmeh, Rifat Odeh Kassis and activist Raymonda Tawil, who is also the mother of Yassir Arafat's wife Suha.[9] The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine was founded in 1967 by Palestinian Christian George Habash.[10] The current Palestinian Ambassador to the United States, Afif Saffieh, is also from a Christian family. However, the Christians were also often found in the more affluent segments of Palestinian society that fled or were expelled from the country during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War; in West Jerusalem, over 50% of Christian Palestinians lost their homes to the advancing Israeli army, according to the historian Sami Hadawi. [11]

05.11.2009 01:53

Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cannut (Post 599696)
OH yea where were the Jews ???

I think Pashsosh slipped up there, let's be fair the Jews have been there for a very long time just like the all the others. They are even genetically very similar!

Amoura 05.11.2009 06:54

Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end
 
for some of you who don’t read history, or he did read a fake history made by uncle SAM, simply Israeli occupied Palestine , when the British prime minster promised all the Jewish ( at that time there was nothing called Israel) he promised them to give them a land.
Of course at that time most of the Arabic countries were under the occupation of France – England – Italy , they started sending Jewish from all over England and Europe, by ships to Palestine, taking away houses and lands and throwing people in the street killing right and left , the conflict developed until what it is now. Scary right? But I am sorry to say that what really happened , imagine if it just happened to any if you, imagine anyone come to your house take it away from you and kill your parents, what would you feel, what would you do?

Have a nice day

Amoura 05.11.2009 07:58

Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end
 
dont wait and dont expect anything of Obama, he already refused the report of goldstone, ha

farra hidlor 05.11.2009 08:03

Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end
 
i hope we not gonna miss the "Peaceful World" one day... (worry)

cannut 08.11.2009 22:55

Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2
 
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1126594.html

Good thing gonna happen :p

08.11.2009 23:21

Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Amoura (Post 599762)
throwing people in the street killing right and left , the conflict developed until what it is now. Scary right? But I am sorry to say that what really happened , imagine if it just happened to any if you, imagine anyone come to your house take it away from you and kill your parents, what would you feel, what would you do?

That's not really what happened. There were Jewish terrorist groups at the time which commited atrocities but we should be careful about attribution here. Many Palestinians left spontaneously during the 1948 and Six Day War, and importantly, pre-1948 (and after as well) the place which is now Israel wasn't quite as it is now. Malarial swamps littered the landscape and there was precious little economy to speak of. Moreover there was in fact never a land called "Palestine", it's been occupied by various Muslim civilisations from the Abbasid Caliphate to the Ottomans and by the pre-Islam Persian empire. While Israeli Arabs enjoy the highest standard of living and the most extensive rights in the entire middle east, and while the current State of Israel is yet another national incarnation of an incredibly dynamic strip of land, the Arab world seems to have such a problem. It seems to be an easy scapegoat, far easier than demonising the Ottomans, who are brothers of religion.

Anyway, of course both sides are at fault, but this sort of seemingly sensical response should be examined carefully.

cannut 08.11.2009 23:29

Re: Israel - Palestine, when will it end
 
[quote=economisto;603428]That's not really what happened. There were Jewish terrorist groups at the time which commited atrocities but we should be careful about attribution here. Many Palestinians left spontaneously during the 1948 and Six Day War, and importantly, pre-1948 (and after as well) the place which is now Israel wasn't quite as it is now. Malarial swamps littered the landscape and there was precious little economy to speak of.

Also called watershed :rolleyes:

08.11.2009 23:36

Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cannut (Post 603391)

How does this tie in with Fayyad resigning, I am not sure that I understand, how this will play out.

cannut 09.11.2009 00:56

Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hoppy (Post 603450)
How does this tie in with Fayyad resigning, I am not sure that I understand, how this will play out.


Abbas is the one resigning

Ramii 09.11.2009 02:45

Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2
 
hii all ...

along time i didn't coming to the forum but it was a nice one now , to see this subject about palestine and israel ...


well i'm surprise about what i hear here , just some or many people they write as they don't know any thing about this world ,, and i must say that who don't know about palestine and israel and the palestinian right it's better to them to read the history from a fair resource then he or she can come here to talk about seriously not stubidly as i read ..

i'm palestinian and i was befor 2 years in palestin living there and i'm now in switzerland because of the israelian ...

this land not for muslim or jewish or christian .. it is for palestinian people , befor 1948 there were muslim and jewish and christian living there ,, but what happened is that ,,, zionist bring all jewish from all around the world and put them there ,, and now they say it's our land

no no for realy it's not israel land IT IS PALESTINE and for really now all muslim and christian there they pain from israel and zionest

i live there there is no problem any problem betwen christian and muslim ,, it is just between zionest and us ...

israel not exisit befor and it exisit because of england and because the jewish rule all the world for sorry ,, no one can say no for them ,, and that is not my opinion only , it's all free people even from europe and america , i met a lot they said so when they came and saw the reality in palestine ...

all west ountry they are afriad from them and for sorry arab country they are afriad from west country .. and all other country like iran and so they play in palestinian to have a benfit of this ...

palestinian are killed evry day and a lot of mascre happen and no one can do any thing ,,

i'm here in switzerland because the israilian band me out ,, why ? just because i was in my univercity support palestinian right in peace way ...

huh ,, this world for sorry need strong only and i wish there is some one here understand me ,, palestinian they are looking for fredom wich is clear like sun .. but all the world make him slef as he didn't see

i have alot and a lot to say ..

i wish from any one here to go and watch tv and read the right history and go to the united nation descion which are in freez ,, why becuase israel the good child of amerika ... at least go and read an know the truth and come then write here

thanx alot for all , and soorry for this long paragraf ..

09.11.2009 03:13

Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cannut (Post 603527)
Abbas is the one resigning

oops! Sorry I'll try to wake up.

It seems to me that a lot of trouble has been caused by the Goldstone report. J Street now say that they will not support a bill slamming the Goldsone report, they are suggesting changes to the bill as are another group. AIPAC of course supports the bill. http://jta.org/news/article/2009/11/...dstone-report.

But here is some history that I found concerning Abbas and the Goldstone report. It may be biased, and taken from a blogger (tsk, tsk) but I thougth it interesting and relevant nevertheless. The blogger http://www.blogcatalog.com/blogs/bag...sts/tag/abbas/ maintains that Abbas has been pressured to withdraw support of the Goldstone report:

Quote:

AL-Akhbar reported today:
Obama called Abbas two times, on Wednesday evening and Thursday afternoon, he told him that presenting Goldstone report to the UN will lead to a significant damage to the Palestinian Authority and the U.S. financial aid to the PA.
After the calls, Abbas met with Jordanian King Abdullah in Amman, and the King warned Abbas that things will get worse if the Palestinian Authority continues to support the report.
Fahd Khytan on AL-Arab Al-Youm:
Many Arab countries rushed to oppose the postpone of Goldstone report, except Jordan who kept silent. There was no explanation and no official position.

That Fayyad accused Abbas of bowing to pressure.

Quote:

Palestinian authority started to exchange accusations, Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyd accuses Abbas with ordering to withdraw Goldstone report, Abbas accuses Arab countries with the order, while Al-Quds Al-Arabi says, Abbas advisers (Saib Erekat and Nimr Hammad) are the ones to blame.
Israeli – Palestinian thinker Azzmi Bashara in his article on Aljazeera today “When shame walks naked” expresses the level of the frustration among Palestinians about Abbas decision to ignore Goldstone Report:
This current split [Fatah vs Hamas] is different from previous Palestinian splits which were based on Arab conflicts and loyalties, fueled by struggles for influence, or even internal political differences.
It become a split between a pro-occupation power and a religious resistance movements, the pro-occupation side uses the religious rhetoric of the second side to avoid the central issues.
I am not informed enough to analyze this bloggers stance objectively, I am just offering it up in hte hope that others on this forum will shed some light.

My fear is that if the more rational peace-seekers on either side are not allowed to take centre stage then the more irrational elements of Hamas and Likud could have devastating effects beyond the territories they are fighting over.

Castro 09.11.2009 11:21

Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hoppy (Post 603564)
It seems to me that a lot of trouble has been caused by the Goldstone report. J Street now say that they will not support a bill slamming the Goldsone report, they are suggesting changes to the bill as are another group. AIPAC of course supports the bill. http://jta.org/news/article/2009/11/...dstone-report.

What I find particularly galling is the fact that the UN appointed a Zionist-Jewish judge to head up the report since that was the only way to avoid Israeli calls of bias. At that stage the Arabs could have cried foul and insisted on a more neutral individual, after all would the Israelis have agreed to a Yemeni judge heading up the report????

Now that the report is out, and it is critical of Israel, they revert to their modus operandi of denial, subterfuge and blame, in this case Judge Goldstone for not putting a better spin on their 'alleged' crimes.
I said it before, there will never be any justice in that region as long as there are no consequences, and if nothing comes of the Goldstone report, it would just be another expensive charade which further undermines the Charter of the UN.

09.11.2009 14:45

Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2
 
Richard Godlstone is highly respected, he has worked in rwanda Yugoslavia, Kosovo and received many awards, the only criticism of his work seems to be for the Gaza report. He is said to be a Zionist and staunch supporter of Israel. This just goes to show how principled, and brave so many Jews are. Goldstone must have known how much this would damage the Netanyahu government yet he went ahead and did what was morally correct.

If Palestine is established the involvement of Jews in the process must be acknowledged.

The UN has affirmed the report:

Quote:

The report, which was favorably voted by the 47-member Human Rights Council in Geneva last month, received overwhelming support Thursday in the 192-member General Assembly. The vote was 114 in favor and 18 against, with 44 abstentions. The 18 countries that voted against the resolution included the United States, Australia, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, Italy and Israel. Ambassador Riyad Mansour, Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations, singled out Ireland, one of the few Western nations to vote for the resolution, for “supporting” it. He also noted that a “sizeable number of European nations” abstained on the resolution. Among the abstentions were Britain, France, Norway, Sweden, Spain, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Denmark and Greece. “The General Assembly sent a powerful message,” he told reporters, adding that if Israelis do not comply, “We will go after them.”
http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=207472

09.11.2009 14:58

Re: Israel - Palestine - Part 2
 
It's all just such a load of hogwash (or...beefwash?) The UN designated "Palestinian State", the territory occupied by Palestinian people pre-1948 is emphatically not now Israel. Jordan and Egypt occupy 23% of what the UN hoped would besplit equally between the Palestinian Arab State and Israel, with Israel having expanded through the other 27% during the 1948 war. Most Palestinians come from, and still live in Jordan. It is absolutely as much or more of a natural Palestinian homeland as Israel is, however it has an absolute monarchy which favours "real Jordanians" (Bedouin) over Palestinians. It's surely true that Israel has taken over and annexed more land than it should have, including too much of Jersusalem, but this is primarily due to the mistakes of it's neighbours who, throughout recent history believed they could push it into the sea, and ended up losing land in the ensuing war.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramii (Post 603561)
hii all ...

along time i didn't coming to the forum but it was a nice one now , to see this subject about palestine and israel ...


well i'm surprise about what i hear here , just some or many people they write as they don't know any thing about this world ,, and i must say that who don't know about palestine and israel and the palestinian right it's better to them to read the history from a fair resource then he or she can come here to talk about seriously not stubidly as i read ..

i'm palestinian and i was befor 2 years in palestin living there and i'm now in switzerland because of the israelian ...

this land not for muslim or jewish or christian .. it is for palestinian people , befor 1948 there were muslim and jewish and christian living there ,, but what happened is that ,,, zionist bring all jewish from all around the world and put them there ,, and now they say it's our land

no no for realy it's not israel land IT IS PALESTINE and for really now all muslim and christian there they pain from israel and zionest

i live there there is no problem any problem betwen christian and muslim ,, it is just between zionest and us ...

israel not exisit befor and it exisit because of england and because the jewish rule all the world for sorry ,, no one can say no for them ,, and that is not my opinion only , it's all free people even from europe and america , i met a lot they said so when they came and saw the reality in palestine ...

all west ountry they are afriad from them and for sorry arab country they are afriad from west country .. and all other country like iran and so they play in palestinian to have a benfit of this ...

palestinian are killed evry day and a lot of mascre happen and no one can do any thing ,,

i'm here in switzerland because the israilian band me out ,, why ? just because i was in my univercity support palestinian right in peace way ...

huh ,, this world for sorry need strong only and i wish there is some one here understand me ,, palestinian they are looking for fredom wich is clear like sun .. but all the world make him slef as he didn't see

i have alot and a lot to say ..

i wish from any one here to go and watch tv and read the right history and go to the united nation descion which are in freez ,, why becuase israel the good child of amerika ... at least go and read an know the truth and come then write here

thanx alot for all , and soorry for this long paragraf ..



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