Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04.03.2010, 14:15
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CH
Posts: 944
Groaned at 26 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 433 Times in 275 Posts
raincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond repute
Birth defects in Iraq

Just saw this distressing report on the news :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8548707.stm

What do you think?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04.03.2010, 14:25
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich t
Posts: 6,299
Groaned at 39 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 6,385 Times in 2,935 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

just as likely to have been caused by poor nutrition, smoking, and other 'environmental' side effects which are war-related, but not necessarily chemicals...

It could also be that the babies are all turning up at this 'nice new clean american-funded' hospital...whereas before they stayed undiagnosed or untreated...

How do they detect heart problems ? Maybe before they didn't even have the machines to test newborn hearts...

Hang around the kids hospital in Zurich, or Sydney, Australia, or any other developed country and you'll be challenged by what you see...

Perhaps on the other hand, pregnancy care is improved now, so whereas before these babies with defects would die during pregnancy or birth, they now survive and are diagnosed... ???
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank swisspea for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 04.03.2010, 14:37
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CH
Posts: 944
Groaned at 26 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 433 Times in 275 Posts
raincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

Hmm.
Some good points, but some of the defects are horrific and according to the doctors in situ, happening with much greater frequency than before.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04.03.2010, 14:39
Thalwiler's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Thalwil
Posts: 329
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 85 Times in 63 Posts
Thalwiler has no particular reputation at present
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

Or it could be something the US and others used in their weapons?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04.03.2010, 14:42
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich t
Posts: 6,299
Groaned at 39 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 6,385 Times in 2,935 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

Quote:
View Post
Hmm.
but some of the defects are horrific
That's an interesting point....do you think 'horrific' birth defects don't happen in wealthy 'western' countries, though ?

I'm not saying that it couldn't potentially be 'war related' - I'm just pointing out that these things do happen in the west, and there wouldn't really be any way of knowing if it's happening more or less...and I guess war is horrific, anyway, so what's the point of placing blame...there's no such thing as a 'clean' war...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank swisspea for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 04.03.2010, 14:48
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,117
Groaned at 344 Times in 278 Posts
Thanked 23,201 Times in 8,386 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

Quote:
View Post
Or it could be something the US and others used in their weapons?
I though this is widely known: Depleted uranium.

A lot of it. Great to shoot through enemy tanks, but never before the Iraq war similar amounts have been used. I am sure that I do not want Uranium in my environment, but since it is pretty unlikely that every bullet is collected and recycled, you can expect that the stuff does get into the water supply.
There have been studies that it was much more likely for 1991 veterans to have disabled babies as they handled this amunition. How long was the 1991 war? Now you imagine to live somewhere where heavy fights at the beginning of the war have poisened your environment with those bullets for years.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 04.03.2010, 14:59
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CH
Posts: 944
Groaned at 26 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 433 Times in 275 Posts
raincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

Quote:
View Post
That's an interesting point....do you think 'horrific' birth defects don't happen in wealthy 'western' countries, though ?

I'm not saying that it couldn't potentially be 'war related' - I'm just pointing out that these things do happen in the west, and there wouldn't really be any way of knowing if it's happening more or less...and I guess war is horrific, anyway, so what's the point of placing blame...there's no such thing as a 'clean' war...
Yes, working in a hospital, I know a bit about the occurrence of birth defects.

But you are right about war, it is never a good option, especially when there was no need for it in the first place........
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04.03.2010, 15:01
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,232
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

Quote:
View Post
Yes, working in a hospital, I know a bit about the occurrence of birth defects.

But you are right about war, it is never a good option, especially when there was no need for it in the first place........
OK - now you are just trolling
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 04.03.2010, 15:03
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CH
Posts: 944
Groaned at 26 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 433 Times in 275 Posts
raincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

I like your signature, Carlos
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04.03.2010, 15:11
portsmouth68's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 871
Groaned at 32 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 779 Times in 381 Posts
portsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

Quote:
View Post
Just saw this distressing report on the news :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8548707.stm

What do you think?
For me one of the distressing thing about this, is the level of journalism that the BBC has diminished to.

One doctor in an un-named hospital with no concrete facts only 'what he has seen'. The other source is a London based researcher!! I am not a doctor and I am sure that the fact that there is a now a new hospital able to detect defects of the heart (when perhaps after years of sanctions, there wasn't) and the fact this is not Europe and most impoverished nations experience a similar defect rate seems to have been completely missed.

We all seem to want to 'sex up' this story with tells of depleted uranium etc etc and I am sure that it plays its part, but sometimes we are caught up on the media hype that the BBC seems to want to peddle nowadays.
__________________
My stuff being sold
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04.03.2010, 15:15
Slaphead's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,223
Groaned at 34 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 9,408 Times in 2,870 Posts
Slaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

Quote:
View Post
I though this is widely known: Depleted uranium.
Exactly what I was going to say - Wikipedia reference-linkDepleted_uranium
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04.03.2010, 15:18
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CH
Posts: 944
Groaned at 26 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 433 Times in 275 Posts
raincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

I am also suspicious of sensationalism in journalism.
But I think the effects of depleted uranium are well documented.

Funnily enough, when this was reported on the lunchtime news, heart defects were not mentioned so much. What really shocked me were the babies with spinal defects, three heads or no arms.
Will have a look at the other news channels (other countries) and see how they report it. Helps to get a more balanced view.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04.03.2010, 15:38
portsmouth68's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 871
Groaned at 32 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 779 Times in 381 Posts
portsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

After some research whats funny about all this is that SKY UK first highlighted this problem in September 2009.

A letter was written to the UN in October 2009 by concerned group asking for the UN to recognise the problem

http://www.unobserver.com/layout5.php?id=6744&blz=1

and finally the BBC nearly six months later decides to report it!!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank portsmouth68 for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 04.03.2010, 16:33
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

Unfortunately not too much data is given. The report says " a doctor is seeing more cases than before" and "the incidence is 13 times the one in Europe".
Two problems here:

1.-That someone is seeing it more often does not always mean it is more common now, it could be that maybe people are now more likely to go to the doctor than before?

2.- The fact that is 13 times the incidence in Europe does not point anywhere, I would be more interested in seeing what the incidence was before 2004 in IRaq and then compare to the new incidence.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 09.03.2010, 10:40
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Solothurn
Posts: 724
Groaned at 88 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 645 Times in 325 Posts
Enaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond reputeEnaj has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

Quote:
View Post
Just saw this distressing report on the news :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8548707.stm

What do you think?
Some years ago whilst working in a refugee centre, I heard the same story from an Iraqi who had been living in Fallujah. Seems it is a well known fact and source of resentment amongst the Iraqis that the rate of birth defects has risen immeasurably since the 1991 war.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09.03.2010, 10:42
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 9,243
Groaned at 118 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 16,857 Times in 5,912 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

Quote:
View Post
Some years ago whilst working in a refugee centre, I heard the same story from an Iraqi who had been living in Fallujah. Seems it is a well known fact and source of resentment amongst the Iraqis that the rate of birth defects has risen immeasurably since the 1991 war.
But the NATO forces didn't even enter Iraq, let alone go anywhere near Fallujah in the 1991 war.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09.03.2010, 10:45
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,459
Groaned at 175 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 4,947 Times in 1,902 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

Quote:
View Post
Some years ago whilst working in a refugee centre, I heard the same story from an Iraqi who had been living in Fallujah. Seems it is a well known fact and source of resentment amongst the Iraqis that the rate of birth defects has risen immeasurably since the 1991 war.
case settled then really. A unnamed doctor in a hospital said he'd seen more cases recently and someone you spoke to said in their opinion things had risen since the first war.

What more proof is needed you have to ask ?

It might well have gone up, maybe due to depleted uranium, or maybe due to activities of Saddam himself in the years precursing that, but no one seems to have any proof.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Mikers for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 09.03.2010, 11:08
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,117
Groaned at 344 Times in 278 Posts
Thanked 23,201 Times in 8,386 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

Quote:
View Post
But the NATO forces didn't even enter Iraq, let alone go anywhere near Fallujah in the 1991 war.
Wrong. Totally wrong. Wikipedia reference-linkFalluja#Gulf_War.2C_1991

They bombed a market full of civilians with laser guided bombs. Some of the military guys here that know more about the UK bombers than I do might correct me, but as far as I know the laser guided "bunker busters" somebody would choose to destroy a bridge - which was the intention of the attack - are exactly the ones with depleted uranium cores.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 09.03.2010, 11:13
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 9,243
Groaned at 118 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 16,857 Times in 5,912 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

Quote:
View Post
Wrong. Totally wrong. Wikipedia reference-linkFalluja#Gulf_War.2C_1991

They bombed a market full of civilians with laser guided bombs. Some of the military guys here that know more about the UK bombers than I do might correct me, but as far as I know the laser guided "bunker busters" somebody would choose to destroy a bridge - which was the intention of the attack - are exactly the ones with depleted uranium cores.
OK, fair enough, I hadn't realised Fallujah had been targetted.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09.03.2010, 11:16
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CH
Posts: 944
Groaned at 26 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 433 Times in 275 Posts
raincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond reputeraincookie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Birth defects in Iraq

Imposed sanctions also had health repercussions.
I'm sure I remember reading about starving children.........will do a bit of research into it.......
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can bathroom defects be claimed from private liability insurance? jacek Daily life 7 23.11.2009 12:28
Shoes hurled at Bush during Iraq visit Castro International affairs/politics 74 09.10.2009 17:34
Five (5) years of the Iraq war rhythmical remedy International affairs/politics 49 23.07.2008 09:15
Turkey launches land offensive into Iraq Woodsie International affairs/politics 6 22.02.2008 13:45
Iraq / Withdrawal / Vietnam spmull06 International affairs/politics 5 18.01.2007 04:53


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0