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  #61  
Old 05.05.2010, 01:21
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

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You would get a better hearing if you would provide sources for your claims. Mine was the Greek government official statistics and I've seen other stuff that backs it up. According to this the minimum wage is € 740 - again above what you said and sorry but an average of € 700 is simply not credible.
look, it's the official goverment "numbers" that brought the country to the situation it is now...so now these numbers are credible? i don't know how to find more credible sources than the ones i know for sure from living there for 22 years and from my family and friends who live there. i cannot convince anyone and it's your right not to believe but every person who lives in greece knows how the situation has been for the past few years. the minimun wage was just reduced to 580 euros (not sure how much it was before but certainly not 740.
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  #62  
Old 05.05.2010, 11:48
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

I cannot quote a source right away but I do remember reading that Greek Statistics office was accused of playing with numbers...
I wonder whether anybody really trusts statistics and/or rating agencies/auditors after what happened with Worldcom/Lehman/ and alike

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look, it's the official goverment "numbers" that brought the country to the situation it is now...so now these numbers are credible? i don't know how to find more credible sources than the ones i know for sure from living there for 22 years and from my family and friends who live there. i cannot convince anyone and it's your right not to believe but every person who lives in greece knows how the situation has been for the past few years. the minimun wage was just reduced to 580 euros (not sure how much it was before but certainly not 740.
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  #63  
Old 05.05.2010, 15:35
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

according to tv news channels, three people are found dead in a building which caught fire during the protests
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  #64  
Old 05.05.2010, 15:52
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

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according to tv news channels, three people are found dead in a building which caught fire during the protests
i just talked with my sister, she's in her office in the center of athens, where there was apparently a huge mess....the people killed were working in this bank and died from asphyxiation when some of the bastards always doing a mess threw a molof inside...or so that's what she learnt

at the moment they are trapped in the office and says that there is a strange complete silence. i'm very worried for her and i really hope she will be ok....

by the way that is the same sister that 2 days ago got paid exactly 366 euros for 3 weeks of full time work, including 2 saturdays, in that very office she is trapped now
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  #65  
Old 05.05.2010, 16:00
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

I've just got off the phone to an old friend in Athens, who is idle at home because of the strike (it seems one doesn't get much choice in the matter), and is looking forward to losing his job in June. Lucky chap, eh?

Anyway, he did share a story with me which I thought I'd share for some light relief:

Two years ago, during the big riots that threatened to bring the whole country to its knees, a man was arrested for smashing windows. Upon questioning, it turned out that the man was not connected with any political groups whatsoever... he was a glazier!

Only in Greece, eh?

Anyway, back to serious discussion about things we can do nothing about...
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  #66  
Old 05.05.2010, 18:11
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

this does sound like a joke though?
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I...

Anyway, he did share a story with me which I thought I'd share for some light relief:

Two years ago, during the big riots that threatened to bring the whole country to its knees, a man was arrested for smashing windows. Upon questioning, it turned out that the man was not connected with any political groups whatsoever... he was a glazier!

Only in Greece, eh?

Anyway, back to serious discussion about things we can do nothing about...
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  #67  
Old 05.05.2010, 18:21
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

Greece's budget deficit, the amount its public spending exceeds its revenues from taxation, last year was 13.6% of its gross domestic product (GDP). This is one of the highest in Europe and more than four times the limit under eurozone rules.

and to add to the crisis there are protests at the moment, Three dead as Greece protest turns violent

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8661385.stm
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  #68  
Old 05.05.2010, 18:36
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

We are watching the true nature of Greeks on the TV right now...very sophisticated, advanced, European people....and yet they don't have the decency to blame themselves instead of the Germans, Wall Street, rating agencies, etc....shame shame shame
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  #69  
Old 05.05.2010, 18:36
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

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i just talked with my sister, she's in her office in the center of athens, where there was apparently a huge mess....the people killed were working in this bank and died from asphyxiation when some of the bastards always doing a mess threw a molof inside...or so that's what she learnt

at the moment they are trapped in the office and says that there is a strange complete silence. i'm very worried for her and i really hope she will be ok....

by the way that is the same sister that 2 days ago got paid exactly 366 euros for 3 weeks of full time work, including 2 saturdays, in that very office she is trapped now

Scary! Hope your sister and everything is fine soon.
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Old 05.05.2010, 18:43
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

It always amazes me that people riot and destroy their own country and neighborhood, like that is going to make things better. I wonder what those bank workers did to deserve being murdered? Oh, yeah, they had jobs and were going to work to support their families so they deserved to die. The unions that fomented the riots should be held finacially responsible and accountable
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  #71  
Old 05.05.2010, 19:22
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

It is said that in the same building that was destroyed by fire, there was goverment documents about big companies tax evasion. If this is true, then things are really bad for Greece.
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  #72  
Old 05.05.2010, 19:29
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

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Scary! Hope your sister and everything is fine soon.
thanks for the interest. she is fine, back at her home.

i'm so sad about the situation and scared as well. to clarify something about the minimum salary in greece, it was indeed 740 euros until now but that is before taxes, deductions etc. what was left was 600 something (that is why i thought it was less than 700). now with the new measures it will add up to 580 euros net PLUS one will be able to get hired (if he wants, and i guess desparate people will want...) with 520 euros per month, as a first time employee.

in the same time, a newly added tax to everyone's electricity bill (ie one cannot avoid it) is to pay a newly added benefit for the people working at the customs (ie one of the most well paid -not to mentioned corrupted- group of people). in the same time my father (after working for 40 years) he has to pay an extra tax because he is considered as one with high pension (ie 1400 euros BRUTO) (plus he's losing most of the benefits he was getting). and in the same time our members of parliament are being very creative in finding ways to get more money

i could go on for ages, i was on the phone for about an hour and learnt a lot more by my other sister (not the trapped one!) who is working in finance.

oh just a last thing. quite conveniently, one of the molotof bombs was dropped on a fourth floor of a building where the archives for the investigations for very big financial scandals are kept...hmm..

my point is not to convince anyone. i know it sounds too bad to be true. i just wanted to give an insight into how people experience the crisis in greece and how they are not the lazy bastards but most of them are just struggling to have a descent life and continue dreaming.
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  #73  
Old 05.05.2010, 19:30
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

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It is said that in the same building that was destroyed by fire, there was goverment documents about big companies tax evasion. If this is true, then things are really bad for Greece.

we were writing at the same time. that is what i heard also. so it's quite obvious that is not the average greek that creates the mess. people want to express their complain and the anger, but one should be a bit sceptical about in whose interest is the creation of a mes like that
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  #74  
Old 05.05.2010, 19:34
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

It is an individual responsibility to save for retirement. If you've worked your whole life you should have saved your whole life. It's foolish to rely on a government to hand you pocket money at the age of 65. It's a shame that the Greeks still haven't learned these basic truths and are still living in the 70s. Fortunate I'm not in government there or I'd nationalise every industry and draft the entire workforce into military service. Try striking and rioting then.
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  #75  
Old 05.05.2010, 19:36
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

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It is an individual responsibility to save for retirement. If you've worked your whole life you should have saved your whole life. It's foolish to rely on a government to hand you pocket money at the age of 65. It's a shame that the Greeks still haven't learned these basic truths and are still living in the 70s. Fortunate I'm not in government there or I'd nationalise every industry and draft the entire workforce into military service. Try striking and rioting then.
are you for real?! people working until the age of 65 have been paying for the pension all their lives. what kind of pocket money are you reffering to?!?!?!

mind you, if my parents had not been saving all of their lives, i would never had the chance to study, to be here and to be talking to you in these languages. also, our family would not be able to survive, as the past few years they had to rely on saved money to make ends meet
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  #76  
Old 05.05.2010, 19:37
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

Idiotic protestors. Did they ever think for a second about the German workers who have to bail them out, who work harder, longer hours, and have a smaller pension at a later age than the Greeks? No reason to endanger the rest of Europe by keeping them in the Euro zone. Oh and besides, there is no minimum salary in Germany, only for certain professions, and that's about 1'000 Euro/M NET, and they pay a bit more taxes than the Greek...
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  #77  
Old 05.05.2010, 19:41
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

Yeah I am for real. The pension you parents were paying into (I assume the national pension) is used to pay for the retired people at that time. It's not saving. And it is primitive and irresponsible. One should not be relying on any one or any thing to be caretaker at the end of one's working life. Many countries and populations are begining to realise this (many people have always known this) and the Greek must now too. There is far too much reliance on the state, and far too little money to make it happen.

When a population relies on a patriachy for so much, they lose responsibility and begin to act like children. This can be clearly seen in the rioting. You personally, have mentioned time and again that the parliament has not taken a pay cut. As if the situation is their fault. Austerity measures should have been taken a long time ago but if they'd have suggested it to the country there would have been riots! The people should now volunteer to work till an older age and other measures.

This is what responsible citizens do.
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are you for real?! people working until the age of 65 have been paying for the pension all their lives. what kind of pocket money are you reffering to?!?!?!

mind you, if my parents had not been saving all of their lives, i would never had the chance to study, to be here and to be talking to you in these languages. also, our family would not be able to survive, as the past few years they had to rely on saved money to make ends meet
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  #78  
Old 05.05.2010, 19:46
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

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Yeah I am for real. The pension you parents were paying into (I assume the national pension) is used to pay for the retired people at that time. It's not saving. And it is primitive and irresponsible. One should not be relying on any one or any thing to be caretaker at the end of one's working life. Many countries and populations are begining to realise this (many people have always known this) and the Greek must now too. There is far too much reliance on the state, and far too little money to make it happen.

When a population relies on a patriachy for so much, they lose responsibility and begin to act like children. This can be clearly seen in the rioting. You personally, have mentioned time and again that the parliament has not taken a pay cut. As if the situation is their fault. Austerity measures should have been taken a long time ago but if they'd have suggested it to the country there would have been riots! The people should now volunteer to work till an older age and other measures.

This is what responsible citizens do.
yes, greeks have been the only ones paying their pension deductions and not waiting to have a pension.

and yes, there is much fault in our governments (current and previous ones). i thought this was self-explanatory

and i mentioned the parliament not taking a pay cut because they should do the same as the rest of the population, if we need to save money, no?
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  #79  
Old 05.05.2010, 20:00
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

Most of greeks cannot afford have a private insurance and pension program.
So, the wait the pension from the state.
Everybody can tell advices, but when there is no money, there is no honey too!
Somebody should tell to all europeans how many greek salaries cost a new car! Just to see how much small the salaries are and how much expensive the goods are.

The fault of greek people is that they vote cheat politicians. And these politicians made greece a poor and unstable country. But, they are elected.
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  #80  
Old 05.05.2010, 20:01
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Re: Financially Skint Greece

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yes, greeks have been the only ones paying their pension deductions and not waiting to have a pension.

and yes, there is much fault in our governments (current and previous ones). i thought this was self-explanatory

and i mentioned the parliament not taking a pay cut because they should do the same as the rest of the population, if we need to save money, no?
How about paying them more. Isn't that how you attract quality? Maybe they should take off all their clothes and run around screaming and murdering people? The people elected their representatives, but it's not their fault that the economy is where it is. How about taking some responsiblity for a change?
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