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  #141  
Old 26.05.2010, 10:05
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

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If this was really true, then society would do more to help single mothers, for example financially or with support and services, or would offer more alternatives to abortion of unwanted babies such as fast-track adoption procedures (there are many more parents who want to adopt and want to offer the baby a warm and loving home than there are available babies. I'm speaking from bitter experience on this one). This is also a form of "family planning". However, none of this is being pursued with anywhere near the same energy as abortion. Therefore I don't buy your argument. Abortion is usually cheaper and easier than any of this and at the end of the day that's waht it boils down to.
For the other end of that stick, should women be forced to carry babies for the childless?
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Old 26.05.2010, 11:07
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

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For the other end of that stick, should women be forced to carry babies for the childless?
I'm not talking about force. But if a woman knew she would be able to offer her unwanted baby for adoption in a quick and no hassle manner and maybe even get paid for it, she might be more willing to carry it.
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Old 26.05.2010, 11:30
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

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I'm not talking about force. But if a woman knew she would be able to offer her unwanted baby for adoption in a quick and no hassle manner and maybe even get paid for it, she might be more willing to carry it.

Paying for children? Are you sure you want to go there?
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  #144  
Old 26.05.2010, 11:37
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

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Paying for children? Are you sure you want to go there?
Human trafficking has many faces.
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Old 26.05.2010, 12:07
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

Eco, I think I get where you are going. I've heard myths about women using abortions like condoms [=don't give a sh!t], that is understandable to cause anger to take abortion in such light way. That I wouldn't approve either.
But do I personally know of any woman doing that? No.
Do any of my friends personally know of any woman doing that? No.
Do you?
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However I can't go and buy a packet of cigarettes without looking at a colour photograph of cancerated lungs. Not pleasant, but when I smoke that cigarette I will be fully informed.
For this person I know who has done it, it was far from being easy decision and it is still a scar on her soul. She is still thinking about it if it was right, and it is very long time ago. I think for most women, this is the case. It's not something that is forgotten within few hours. And they do see pictures like you posted, of the fetal, they know what is in there.
You have to admit that what you wrote before was slightly unthoughtful.

Peace.
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  #146  
Old 26.05.2010, 13:34
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

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just happens that this decision is made by women exclusively.
This is only partially true.

My brother's high school girlfriend was forced to have an abortion by her father. This was not something the girl wanted, nor was it something my brother wanted.

As my mother is so incredibly staunchly pro-life, my brother turned to me with his pain.


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For this person I know who has done it, it was far from being easy decision and it is still a scar on her soul. She is still thinking about it if it was right, and it is very long time ago. I think for most women, this is the case. It's not something that is forgotten within few hours. And they do see pictures like you posted, of the fetal, they know what is in there.
You have to admit that what you wrote before was slightly unthoughtful.

Peace.
Along with my brother, I provided the emotional support for a good friend and for my sister when they made the choice to go through with abortion.

My good friend had been in a relationship with a man who lied about being married... until he showed up with his wife one day. A week later my friend found out she was pregnant.

A few years later, I was living in Florida and my friend came to visit for New Year's Eve. We both got pretty plastered that occasion and I do not remember much of the walk back to our hotel room. One thing I do remember though is standing on the beach, holding my friend while she cried in my arms, soothing her as she was talking about (and crying that "ugly" heart wrenching cry) how her baby would have started school that year.



As I've said, thankfully I've never had to make the decision myself. Thankfully for two of my siblings and my friend, I have an open enough mind and heart to help them through painful times... and I will continue to be there for them any and every time the occasion comes that they remember the one lost.
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  #147  
Old 26.05.2010, 21:20
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

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I'm not talking about force. But if a woman knew she would be able to offer her unwanted baby for adoption in a quick and no hassle manner and maybe even get paid for it, she might be more willing to carry it.
Ha. here is another beauty. I have not heard and cannot picture a quick and hassle free handover of one's just born child as if it was an object to a complete stranger. It does not work that way. Even if you do not want to have a child, to actually carry it and have to pawn it over is a no go for some. I do not blame them. I would not be able to do it.

How far can your imagination go? You know, women do feel, they have a heart, they carry a child, they develop some kind of bond....At a few days, weeks, months of pregnancy. That's my whole point. It is the fact that they cannot give it future that prevents them from having the child and at a few weeks it is easier to decide not to have it than wait a few months when most of them wouldn't ever give their newborn to anyone. You have no idea what is happening in their heads and hearts. And, you still have the weird absolutely non compassionate way of trying to portray a girl as a mere incubator. That's so fricking wonderful.

Has anyone ever thought that the cold, seemingly heartless way some women decide to treat the whole matter could be the painful HTFU because it is a huge stigma? Because there are people like in this thread who make it even worse...But deep inside, they hurt, they feel, they miss their child they cannot have, they yearn for some kind of forgiveness. Bless them.

Howgh.
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  #148  
Old 27.05.2010, 07:23
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

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Now doesn't that just take the cake!

Groaning at a post explaining feelings. How special.

Hopefully your gal (wife, girlfriend, daughter, whomever...) doesn't catch you groaning about her feelings irl - or maybe actually hopefully she does...

... and then hauls back kicks you a good one in the shin.
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Old 27.05.2010, 09:38
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

I had a first hand experience with my ex-flatmate. She was such a sweet girl but wasn't thinking much of the consequenses.

She had unprotected sex with a guy and end up pregnant. The Hic was that we were living in Istanbul.

It is something done very often by Turkish girl, but definitely not talk about. We went to one of those private clinic where no one knows they do it.

It was a very stressful experience for me and a very hard one for her. I brang her there and hold her back on our way home. She went throw a depression and I couldn't do much but being there for her and listen.

Thankfully, I never had to passed throw this myself, but being there in the whole process made me very sad for her.

Sadly as much nice and sweet she was, she wasn't very bright and felt pregnant less then a year later again. This time, she thought she had the perfect guy (she knew for 1 day) and she is now a single mother and went back to her own country.

Some will never learn from bad experience and will do it again and again. But this choice of having an abortion should always be a personal choice and women should always have access to it.

This girl wasn't a general case but an exception.
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  #150  
Old 27.05.2010, 09:49
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

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Ha. here is another beauty. I have not heard and cannot picture a quick and hassle free handover of one's just born child as if it was an object to a complete stranger. It does not work that way. Even if you do not want to have a child, to actually carry it and have to pawn it over is a no go for some. I do not blame them. I would not be able to do it.

How far can your imagination go? You know, women do feel, they have a heart, they carry a child, they develop some kind of bond....At a few days, weeks, months of pregnancy. That's my whole point. It is the fact that they cannot give it future that prevents them from having the child and at a few weeks it is easier to decide not to have it than wait a few months when most of them wouldn't ever give their newborn to anyone. You have no idea what is happening in their heads and hearts. And, you still have the weird absolutely non compassionate way of trying to portray a girl as a mere incubator. That's so fricking wonderful.

Has anyone ever thought that the cold, seemingly heartless way some women decide to treat the whole matter could be the painful HTFU because it is a huge stigma? Because there are people like in this thread who make it even worse...But deep inside, they hurt, they feel, they miss their child they cannot have, they yearn for some kind of forgiveness. Bless them.

Howgh.
Music, you really ought to sit back and breathe a bit.

On the one hand you are defending an agency that is killing foetuses for a profit and is advertising in order to get more foetuses to kill to make even more profit. I don't have a problem with people making a profit. that's what business is about, But don't cloud this up with emotions. It's still a profit and if they weren't making a profit they wouldn't be doing it. You ridiculed me for comparing that to warmongering and weapon peddling. But I'm sure that the soldier that gets to press the big red button also has emotional stress over that afterwards. Don't you think he has sleepless nights and spends the rest of his life in an inner battle over whether he should or shouldn't have done it as he pictures all the people who could still be alive. Your line of argument seems to be that killing is okay if you feel bad about it for the rest of your life. Apply that thinking to the soldier hat presses the big red button and you'll see how that dissolves into cold sand.

On the other hand I'm suggesting an alternative that would allow a woman that doesn't want a baby to be able to pass it on to somebody who does want it. Of course I realise that it isn't easy. But you yourself say that women have abortions don't have it easy either. So what's the game? You destroy what you don't want or you give it to somebody who wants it. You destroy happiness or you give it. Or if at the last minute the mother decides she wants to keep it ater all, so be it. sn't that much more of a "choice " option. I don't see where the "choice" comes into the piece by piece dismembering of a fully living foetus with a beating heart, except maybe the "choice" of the well paid doctor when he decides how to spell his blood money.
  #151  
Old 27.05.2010, 09:54
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

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Music, you really ought to sit back and breathe a bit.

On the one hand you are defending an agency that is killing foetuses for a profit and is advertising in order to get more foetuses to kill to make even more profit. I don't have a problem with people making a profit. that's what business is about, But don't cloud this up with emotions. It's still a profit and if they weren't making a profit they wouldn't be doing it. You ridiculed me for comparing that to warmongering and weapon peddling. But I'm sure that the soldier that gets to press the big red button also has emotional stress over that afterwards. Don't you think he has sleepless nights and spends the rest of his life in an inner battle over whether he should or shouldn't have done it as he pictures all the people who could still be alive. Your line of argument seems to be that killing is okay if you feel bad about it for the rest of your life. Apply that thinking to the soldier hat presses the big red button and you'll see how that dissolves into cold sand.

On the other hand I'm suggesting an alternative that would allow a woman that doesn't want a baby to be able to pass it on to somebody who does want it. Of course I realise that it isn't easy. But you yourself say that women have abortions don't have it easy either. So what's the game? You destroy what you don't want or you give it to somebody who wants it. You destroy happiness or you give it. Or if at the last minute the mother decides she wants to keep it ater all, so be it. sn't that much more of a "choice " option. I don't see where the "choice" comes into the piece by piece dismembering of a fully living foetus with a beating heart, except maybe the "choice" of the well paid doctor when he decides how to spell his blood money.
And you're talking about selling children for profit.
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  #152  
Old 27.05.2010, 09:56
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

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I'm not talking about force. But if a woman knew she would be able to offer her unwanted baby for adoption in a quick and no hassle manner and maybe even get paid for it, she might be more willing to carry it.
Interesting, but currently, technically illegal.
I know that adoptions cost more money than sense would justify and that in fact we are paying or have paid for our children. But it is a fairly carefully choreographed tap-dance around the laws as they currently stand.

Trust me on this one. I didn't "buy" my daughter as such but it cost between 10K and 15K USD almost a decade ago. At that time a healthy "visibly caucasian" child from eastern Europe would have "cost" around 35K to over 50K depending on various factors. Like, how blonde you wanted the child to start with.

Just to say, if one uses the word "buy" in the context of adoption in most wester countries it sets the hackles up on most Social Agencies and related Bureaucrats.
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  #153  
Old 27.05.2010, 09:57
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

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And you're talking about selling children for profit.
No, I don't think anybody would get pregnant in order to make a profit. The whole thing is too stressful and emotional to do that. I'm talking about some money to support the mother because most probably she'll be missing out on work and incurring medical costs etc which will be hitting her hard because she's probably poor already. I don't think that's the same thing.
  #154  
Old 27.05.2010, 09:58
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

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No, I don't think anybody would get pregnant in order to make a profit. The whole thing is too stressful and emotional to do that. I'm talking about some money to support the mother because most probably she'll be missing out on work and incurring medical costs etc which will be hitting her hard because she's probably poor already. I don't think that's the same thing.
Er, this already happens. It is called being a surrogate mother.
  #155  
Old 27.05.2010, 09:59
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

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No, I don't think anybody would get pregnant in order to make a profit. The whole thing is too stressful and emotional to do that. I'm talking about some money to support the mother because most probably she'll be missing out on work and incurring medical costs etc which will be hitting her hard because she's probably poor already. I don't think that's the same thing.
I see, they make a profit, you just cover expenses.
  #156  
Old 27.05.2010, 10:05
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

Thanks, Pegster..Tis alrite.

The stories are always sad. Good for those who offered helping hand, ears, heart, at some point of those women's lives.

I have only heard of one female debatable attitude case, it was in FLA, apparently there was a cousin of a cousin, she had a series of abortions. People were concerned, of course it is so easy to assume, judge, etc. They thought what an irresponsible airhead. Turns out that poor girl can't take hormons for serious medical condition, is not very educated about other ways of protecting herself, is afraid to ask, hasn't got much cash, has an overbearing, pushy partner who likes to do it without the jimihats, her family has no clue and makes her feel like she is nobody without her man. There are pressures on people we do not know about. Situations in traditional, conservative societies. There are always so many things involved. So, she had her first at 14, then pretty much every year. I doubt she can have children by now. She is probably still with that man, who "loves" her. Those are tragedies, there are so many more we do not know about. Nobody talks. Things stay behind closed doors.

If there are any ways to help girls like that, I welcome them. Government, society, school, church, attitudes of strangers, whoever can make a difference is important. It is not always stupidity or lack of street smarts. But traditions, fear, conditioning, feeling helpless, etc.

So, to have somebody argue and paint a bleek picture of girls who supposedly do not care for their kids, when in fact they need help, personally - it's hard to not have feelings about that.
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Old 27.05.2010, 10:14
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

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Music, you really ought to sit back and breathe a bit.

On the one hand you are defending an agency that is killing foetuses for a profit and is advertising in order to get more foetuses to kill to make even more profit. I don't have a problem with people making a profit. that's what business is about, But don't cloud this up with emotions. It's still a profit and if they weren't making a profit they wouldn't be doing it. You ridiculed me for comparing that to warmongering and weapon peddling. But I'm sure that the soldier that gets to press the big red button also has emotional stress over that afterwards. Don't you think he has sleepless nights and spends the rest of his life in an inner battle over whether he should or shouldn't have done it as he pictures all the people who could still be alive. Your line of argument seems to be that killing is okay if you feel bad about it for the rest of your life. Apply that thinking to the soldier hat presses the big red button and you'll see how that dissolves into cold sand.

On the other hand I'm suggesting an alternative that would allow a woman that doesn't want a baby to be able to pass it on to somebody who does want it. Of course I realise that it isn't easy. But you yourself say that women have abortions don't have it easy either. So what's the game? You destroy what you don't want or you give it to somebody who wants it. You destroy happiness or you give it. Or if at the last minute the mother decides she wants to keep it ater all, so be it. sn't that much more of a "choice " option. I don't see where the "choice" comes into the piece by piece dismembering of a fully living foetus with a beating heart, except maybe the "choice" of the well paid doctor when he decides how to spell his blood money.
Hmm...I was not even gettin' into the agency bit, ya know.
It was just a comment about how careless those girls feel towards their children. And the comment about how hassle free and quick it would be to pass on your child to somebody else. My take was and is - it aint's as simples. And as easy. None of the "easy solution" opinions were of a girl. I wonder why.

What a sad thread.
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Old 27.05.2010, 10:26
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

If I think of myself way back I couldn't be able to do it.

I was poor as hell, working differents jobs to be able to survive and go to school. Lets assume I felt pregnant and was in front of the choice of keeping it, giving it or having an abortion.

Keeping it: No, I was too young and not enough responsable and a very poor student. It could be a very bad life for both of us.

Giving it: I know what is it to be pregnant and to give birth to an amazing little baby. Could I ever think to give the baby away? Hell no!!! This is too much emotion and connection with the baby involve.

So I guess I would have take an abortion. Did you see what looks a foetus at 10 weeks? Not much of an human. A life, yes. But like the ant you walk on, the flies you killed, etc.

The foetus becomes a baby when he his able to survive outside of the womb, no? But as long as he doesn't have a brain, etc. Can we call it a baby? can we call it a ''murder''
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Old 27.05.2010, 10:35
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

it's not an ad for abortion, it;s an advert for family planning centres WHERE abortion is and not the only option. Are you against choice?
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Old 27.05.2010, 13:51
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Re: First Ever Commercial For Abortion on British TV

I think we've been over this before. Is this thread going around in circles?

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The foetus becomes a baby when he his able to survive outside of the womb, no? But as long as he doesn't have a brain, etc. Can we call it a baby? can we call it a ''murder''
Cue the metally handicapped, cue the freshly born baby.

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it's not an ad for abortion, it;s an advert for family planning centres WHERE abortion is and not the only option. Are you against choice?
If nobody can come up with anything new to say, I don't see much point in continuing with this thread. Time to close it down maybe?
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