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Old 04.06.2010, 11:37
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Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

Due to recent events in the North-west of England, I believe the carnage would have been far less egregious if the perpetrator only had access to a pocket knife... discuss... keep in mind the lack of bears or wolves in the UK that would warrant farmers to carry weapons (it is illegal to even shoot a badger!) - so, whole scale disarmament is my proposal.
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Old 04.06.2010, 11:37
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

...no, just take away all the bullets.
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Old 04.06.2010, 11:43
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

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<snip>....so, whole scale disarmament is my proposal.
And a stupid knee-jerk one too IMO.

Gun control in the UK is perfectly adequate. There will always be a proportion of the populace who will have access to weapons (both legally and illegally).

This kind of event happens very infrequently. Many of the gun crimes in the UK are committed with illegal firearms, so how does banning legal ones help?

Legal firearms in the UK are limited in type (e.g. no automatic rifles) after the Hungerford massacre.

Oh, and knife crime is a much more frequent occurrence.

Last edited by Carlos R; 04.06.2010 at 13:31.
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Old 04.06.2010, 11:44
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

While a ban would prevent loonies suddenly losing it and grabbing their gun to go on a spree, we'd have to bring back fox hunting if shooting foxes is no longer allowed.
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Old 04.06.2010, 11:48
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

its a hard question, does anyone in england need a gun? no not really, even farmers don't need them, there are far better ways of killing pests then firing lead shot in there direction, as for rifles, I can't see a valid reason for anyone to keep one at home.

but

people like to shoot, so a compromise would be to only allow guns to be held at gun clubs / shooting ranges, no weapons or ammo stored at home. Game shoots would need some sort of licence and the weapons returned to the club / range afterwards.

Villains will always get hold of guns, and as far as I know all the massacres in recent history have been with legal weapons anyway, as long as villains want to go round killing each other that's fine by me
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Old 04.06.2010, 11:48
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

I've heard that people sometimes get killed by cars too.
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Old 04.06.2010, 11:54
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._gun_ownership

some people say it is education /attitude that kills and not the guns.

Doctors kill more people than guns: urban legend or fact?


http://www.naturalnews.com/021206_gu...or_errors.html
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Old 04.06.2010, 11:58
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

Nah, there are lots of pests like rabbits and muntjac etc that are best killed with a shotgun. Guns need to be highly regulated and controlled so as to only be used for sport. There needs to be a central, easily searchable database of every gun owned in Britian and where it is and what ammo there is with it. Random spot checks too.
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its a hard question, does anyone in england need a gun? no not really, even farmers don't need them, there are far better ways of killing pests then firing lead shot in there direction, as for rifles, I can't see a valid reason for anyone to keep one at home.

but

people like to shoot, so a compromise would be to only allow guns to be held at gun clubs / shooting ranges, no weapons or ammo stored at home. Game shoots would need some sort of licence and the weapons returned to the club / range afterwards.

Villains will always get hold of guns, and as far as I know all the massacres in recent history have been with legal weapons anyway, as long as villains want to go round killing each other that's fine by me
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Old 04.06.2010, 12:00
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

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some people say it is education /attitude that kills and not the guns.
I'm fairly sure that it's the bullets, myself.
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Old 04.06.2010, 12:04
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

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Nah, there are lots of pests like rabbits and muntjac etc that are best killed with a shotgun. Guns need to be highly regulated and controlled so as to only be used for sport. There needs to be a central, easily searchable database of every gun owned in Britian and where it is and what ammo there is with it. Random spot checks too.
I don't agree I grew up in the country side, and went to a rural school with lots of famers kids, I don't recall ever seeing a farmer out shooting anything, lots of yuppies trying to shoot game birds (badly), but never a farmer. Famers round our way used to let people use there land to shoot on, but I think they are generally a bit too busy to waste a day sitting around waiting for thumper to turn up.

oh the farmers kids used to shoot rats in the barns with air rifles / pistols
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Old 04.06.2010, 12:07
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

If I make a spelling mistake is it the pencil's fault?
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Old 04.06.2010, 12:13
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

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I'm fairly sure that it's the bullets, myself.
It's not the bullets, it's the very tip of the bullets. The back end does not much.
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Old 04.06.2010, 12:16
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

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I don't agree I grew up in the country side, and went to a rural school with lots of famers kids, I don't recall ever seeing a farmer out shooting anything, lots of yuppies trying to shoot game birds (badly), but never a farmer. Famers round our way used to let people use there land to shoot on, but I think they are generally a bit too busy to waste a day sitting around waiting for thumper to turn up.

oh the farmers kids used to shoot rats in the barns with air rifles / pistols
The farm next to my parent's house (by which it is surrounded) has a farmer who shoots pests (usually using a rifle). My father also "indulges" in pest control. Poisoning rabbits doesn't work so well and can indiscriminately harm wildlife.

I've also been clay-pigeon shooting (with my own gun, I should add, that is locked up in my parent's house back in Blighty in an approved gun box with all the ammunition and has been inspected [for your info Economisto ]) on another farmer's land and he and his sons regularly set up and join in the shooting. Practice for when they are on pest control duty and of course good social fun.

So somewhere between your version and mine lies the truth
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Old 04.06.2010, 12:25
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

Should we take their guns away? Maybe these gun-totoers are using the smbol of a gun to hide some fear or pain. Such people often try to defend themselves, physically with things like "big guns" or psychologically, "building barriers". These people need some form of "protection" lest someone tries to breache their blockade.
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Old 04.06.2010, 12:26
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

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Due to recent events in the North-west of England, I believe the carnage would have been far less egregious if the perpetrator only had access to a pocket knife... discuss... keep in mind the lack of bears or wolves in the UK that would warrant farmers to carry weapons (it is illegal to even shoot a badger!) - so, whole scale disarmament is my proposal.
People who want to do these things manage to get hold of weapons.
The guy does drive a car. That is a hell of a lot more dangerous than a pocket knife. Better start taking everyones good Kitchen knives away too.

As for it being "illegal to even shoot a badger," said badger is protected. So it is not a question of being able to shoot what might be thought of as a pest. I think that the more important thing is that particular instance is that the badger is unique as many other animals can be shot and are. Last time I checked it was also illegal to shoot humans. At least it was in the UK.

I think the weapons farmers own are used on pests that are legal to shoot and bird hunting. I am thinking foxes in particular. However, this article on what rounds to use for what animals, makes me wonder if this would be legal.
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Old 04.06.2010, 12:32
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

The most reasonable solution would be to introduce some kind of statute that reads:
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
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Old 04.06.2010, 12:32
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

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<snip>However, this article on what rounds to use for what animals, makes me wonder if this would be legal.
Not if you want to do it and minimise the animal's suffering. Most people who shoot animals for pest control do not do it satisfy blood lust. They are doing a job and in this context using the right tools is important.

You want, ideally, one clean shot that will kill the animal immediately.

The right gun and ammunition for this is critical (no pun intended).
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Old 04.06.2010, 12:38
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

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Nah, there are lots of pests like rabbits and muntjac etc that are best killed with a shotgun. Guns need to be highly regulated and controlled so as to only be used for sport. There needs to be a central, easily searchable database of every gun owned in Britian and where it is and what ammo there is with it. Random spot checks too.
Check the link in my previous post about what rounds to use on muntjac.
BTW, I have been advocating the proper licensing of firearms in the USA for years. I'm not holding my breath as things are a bit extreme over there.

One has to have a license to drive and one for your car to sit on the public roads and they are all in databases. So what is the problem with firearms.
Seatbelts and lifejackets are not significantly different from trigger locks or gun safes in terms of concept so it should not be difficult to get those who want to own firearms to act responsibly. Hopefully.

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...no, just take away all the bullets.
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I'm fairly sure that it's the bullets, myself.
All bullets should be registered too. It would be fairly easy to label or have some marker for munitions that would make them very easily traceable.
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Old 04.06.2010, 12:43
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

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One has to have a license to drive and one for your car to sit on the public roads and they are all in databases. So what is the problem with firearms.
Seatbelts and lifejackets are not significantly different from trigger locks or gun safes in terms of concept so it should not be difficult to get those who want to own firearms to act responsibly. Hopefully.
I'm not sure I understand your point/question.

Gun ownership is licenced and controlled in the UK and you are required to meet certain storage criteria (i.e. lockable gun cabinet made of stengthened materials and bolted to the structure of your house from inside).
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Old 04.06.2010, 12:44
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Re: Should there be a complete ban on the ownership of all fire-arms in the UK?

All guns removed from GB, that will make my invasion much easier!

CK
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