Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05.06.2010, 02:20
scribble's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 8xxx
Posts: 685
Groaned at 18 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 598 Times in 304 Posts
scribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond repute
Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

I am not the kind of guy who thinks everything is equal equal everywhere. So for example I don't buy views that all religions, cultures, nations, customs etc are equal or have similar merit. Some things in life are equal, some better and some worse. The politically correct and fashionable view that all cultures have equal merit in my opinion is just bull. So my view is that current modern western way of life is quiet cool. The personal freedoms and choices available are probably unprecedented in human history. Freedom of speech, democracy, no death penalty, sexual freedom, gay rights, people not anal about religion, more gender equality, comparatively lower corruption, lack of forced marriages, no honour killings, wife beating socially not accepted....... I could go on forever.

Are there not problems in the west? Sure there are many but on the whole I feel the positives outweigh the negatives more than in any other part of the world. I was born in the east and have lived sizeable early chunk of my life there but I have lived majority in the west so I do know roughly what I am talking about. I enjoy and appreciate aspects of various cultures but western culture is where I feel at home and I think it is superior to any other way of life I have come across.

People get so attached to the culture they were born in that they can never look past it and get all worked up when someone points out valid and constructive faults. Call me a traitor but I see things for what they are If I thought there were better places in the world then I surely would move there.

Now that I have placed fuel and dry wood together......what say you?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank scribble for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 05.06.2010, 02:45
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,874
Groaned at 180 Times in 140 Posts
Thanked 6,130 Times in 3,363 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Quote:
View Post
I am not the kind of guy who thinks everything is equal equal everywhere. So for example I don't buy views that all religions, cultures, nations, customs etc are equal or have similar merit. Some things in life are equal, some better and some worse. The politically correct and fashionable view that all cultures have equal merit in my opinion is just bull. So my view is that current modern western way of life is quiet cool. The personal freedoms and choices available are probably unprecedented in human history. Freedom of speech, democracy, no death penalty, sexual freedom, gay rights, people not anal about religion, more gender equality, comparatively lower corruption, lack of forced marriages, no honour killings, wife beating socially not accepted....... I could go on forever.

Are there not problems in the west? Sure there are many but on the whole I feel the positives outweigh the negatives more than in any other part of the world. I was born in the east and have lived sizeable early chunk of my life there but I have lived majority in the west so I do know roughly what I am talking about. I enjoy and appreciate aspects of various cultures but western culture is where I feel at home and I think it is superior to any other way of life I have come across.

People get so attached to the culture they were born in that they can never look past it and get all worked up when someone points out valid and constructive faults. Call me a traitor but I see things for what they are If I thought there were better places in the world then I surely would move there.

Now that I have placed fuel and dry wood together......what say you?
Absolutely;Micheal Jackson,Tiny Tim,Sara Palin,Me and on the Brighter side DB comes to my mind
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank cannut for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 05.06.2010, 02:49
scribble's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 8xxx
Posts: 685
Groaned at 18 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 598 Times in 304 Posts
scribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Quote:
View Post
on the Brighter side DB comes to my mind
DB does not count as he is English
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05.06.2010, 07:39
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 12,822
Groaned at 204 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 18,543 Times in 7,570 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

I don't know if it's superior, but I can't think of a culture I'd rather live in.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 05.06.2010, 08:33
portsmouth68's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 878
Groaned at 33 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 779 Times in 381 Posts
portsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Why does one have to be better than the other?

The Dalai Lama once said to take any aspect of our life that is important whether it be religion or social and to create our own sense of values and beliefs. Surely we have to move away from the collective grouping of cultures and to accept that there are positives and negatives in all cultures.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank portsmouth68 for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 05.06.2010, 08:42
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,444
Groaned at 172 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 4,863 Times in 1,878 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Quote:
View Post
I don't know if it's superior, but I can't think of a culture I'd rather live in.
...said the first bacteria to the second bacteria
Reply With Quote
The following 16 users would like to thank Mikers for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 05.06.2010, 09:03
RolandRB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ex Basel
Posts: 570
Groaned at 137 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 170 Times in 107 Posts
RolandRB is considered knowledgeableRolandRB is considered knowledgeableRolandRB is considered knowledgeable
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Quote:
View Post
I am not the kind of guy who thinks everything is equal equal everywhere. So for example I don't buy views that all religions, cultures, nations, customs etc are equal or have similar merit. Some things in life are equal, some better and some worse. The politically correct and fashionable view that all cultures have equal merit in my opinion is just bull. So my view is that current modern western way of life is quiet cool. The personal freedoms and choices available are probably unprecedented in human history. Freedom of speech, democracy, no death penalty, sexual freedom, gay rights, people not anal about religion, more gender equality, comparatively lower corruption, lack of forced marriages, no honour killings, wife beating socially not accepted....... I could go on forever.

Are there not problems in the west? Sure there are many but on the whole I feel the positives outweigh the negatives more than in any other part of the world. I was born in the east and have lived sizeable early chunk of my life there but I have lived majority in the west so I do know roughly what I am talking about. I enjoy and appreciate aspects of various cultures but western culture is where I feel at home and I think it is superior to any other way of life I have come across.

People get so attached to the culture they were born in that they can never look past it and get all worked up when someone points out valid and constructive faults. Call me a traitor but I see things for what they are If I thought there were better places in the world then I surely would move there.

Now that I have placed fuel and dry wood together......what say you?
I don't think we have created a "superior" culture. It may be a preferable one to live in, though. But some of the goods we have in our culture come from places where conditions aren't so good so in a sense they are all part of the system we have. So we have good culture living off and maintaining bad culture. We are just lucky living in the good part of it.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank RolandRB for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 05.06.2010, 10:07
Suzagna's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 160
Groaned at 22 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 116 Times in 36 Posts
Suzagna has earned the respect of manySuzagna has earned the respect of manySuzagna has earned the respect of many
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

I agree with this view of the western world. I wouldn't dare to say that our modern culture is superior to any other culture "ever", but if we talk about all the other cultures now, I definitely think that we have the privilege to live in this part of the world, where there is freedom of speech and just freedom as well. I think too that some religions are worse than others, not all religions are tolerant.


Quote:
View Post
I don't think we have created a "superior" culture. It may be a preferable one to live in, though. But some of the goods we have in our culture come from places where conditions aren't so good so in a sense they are all part of the system we have. So we have good culture living off and maintaining bad culture. We are just lucky living in the good part of it.
You have a point there, but I think that applies to the "material" quality of life: we profit from cheap products coming from cheap labour countries. I think that scribble means culture as freedom of press, tolerance, social justice, etc. Anyway it is true that a lot of this countries that produce cheap stuff are the ones that lack an open and tolerant society (China, Vietnam,etc).
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05.06.2010, 11:21
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Quote:
View Post
Why does one have to be better than the other?

The Dalai Lama once said to take any aspect of our life that is important whether it be religion or social and to create our own sense of values and beliefs. Surely we have to move away from the collective grouping of cultures and to accept that there are positives and negatives in all cultures.
The Dalai Lama is a fool who ruled, with his aristocratic class of "monks" over the Tibetan people with an iron fist and got the kicking he richly deserved (by other fools, but that's another story). Man needs to get a job, seriously.

In any case, yes, the Western value system is the best, culturally and scientifically we're the most (only?) developed "civilisation" and the way we know all this is that no one else seems too sure of themselves. They're all watching Friends reruns, and will come around slowly.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 05.06.2010, 14:02
scribble's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 8xxx
Posts: 685
Groaned at 18 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 598 Times in 304 Posts
scribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Quote:
View Post
Why does one have to be better than the other?
In life one has to make choices based on what is better for them. So for me western culture suits my way of thinking best hence I find it better/superior. It does not mean that other cultures are completely devoid of merit or that western way is perfect.

For example let's take Saudi Arabia, for me western European way is 100 times better than Saudi way. So yes not every thing is equal or similar. Some things are actually better.

Quote:
Surely we have to move away from the collective grouping of cultures and to accept that there are positives and negatives in all cultures.
In my opinion western way of life provides the best available framework. I am actually an individualist and not slave to any culture as such but modern western culture does provide better frame work for such individualism to exist freely and openly. Much better than some other cultures where such things could be frowned upon and herd mentality rules lot of the times.

Last edited by scribble; 05.06.2010 at 14:23.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05.06.2010, 14:22
portsmouth68's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 878
Groaned at 33 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 779 Times in 381 Posts
portsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond reputeportsmouth68 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Quote:
View Post
In life one has to make choices based on what is better for them. So for me western culture suits my way of thinking best hence I find it better/superior. It does not mean that other cultures are completely devoid of merit or that western way is perfect.

In my opinion western way of life provides the best available framework. I am actually a very individualistic minded person and not slave to any culture as such but modern western culture does provide better frame work for such individualism to exist freely and openly. Much better than some other cultures where such things could be frowned upon and herd mentality rules lot of the times.
The trouble with your philosophy is that you are only taking the positive aspects of western culture. You have failed to take into account of exploitation, drug and alcohol abuse, violence, the breakdown of the morals and family values and suppression of religion that imposed Christianity on many 'uncultured societies' not through preaching but through arm oppression.

Whats more you talk about freedom but forget that it is not such a free society here, after all we don't allow Muslims to build minarets and to openly practice many of their beliefs. We are the world leaders in the abuse of the environment and and the abuse of power (Mr Bush and Blair in Iraq for instance).

You speak of being individual but the majority of westerners follow the herd that you don't believes exist and there is very little individualism in reality.

Your view sounds like it is based on my dad is bigger and better than yours argument...

I totally value freedom in the West but I also value the sense of family that I get from the East but each need the other to be worthwhile.
__________________
My stuff being sold
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank portsmouth68 for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 05.06.2010, 14:37
scribble's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 8xxx
Posts: 685
Groaned at 18 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 598 Times in 304 Posts
scribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Quote:
View Post
The trouble with your philosophy is that you are only taking the positive aspects of western culture. You have failed to take into account of exploitation, drug and alcohol abuse, violence, the breakdown of the morals and family values and suppression of religion that imposed Christianity on many 'uncultured societies' not through preaching but through arm oppression.
I have taken everything into account Btw I am not talking about western past. I am talking about what it has evolved into in modern times. Dark ages is nothing to be proud of. Oh! and "morals and family values" are over rated.

Quote:
Whats more you talk about freedom but forget that it is not such a free society here, after all we don't allow Muslims to build minarets and to openly practice many of their beliefs.
Last I checked they were fully able to practise their religion. Also intolerant ideologies lose right of crying tolerance. Western culture is where it is at due to shoving religion where it belongs ie. in the background. Although bin would be the preferable place for religion.

Quote:
We are the world leaders in the abuse of the environment and and the abuse of power (Mr Bush and Blair in Iraq for instance).
Not unique to the west.

Quote:
You speak of being individual but the majority of westerners follow the herd that you don't believes exist and there is very little individualism in reality.
Human nature is human nature world over but still the framework and possibilities for such behaviour is better here.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank scribble for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 05.06.2010, 14:51
HashBrown's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,290
Groaned at 68 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 3,015 Times in 1,340 Posts
HashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond reputeHashBrown has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Our great civilisation is based on the wealth of plunder and slaves and continues to be so, so yes great for us, but no so much for the workers in Asia, Latin America, USA who let us live as we do.
Reply With Quote
The following 11 users would like to thank HashBrown for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 05.06.2010, 17:41
Gav's Avatar
Gav Gav is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 969
Groaned at 15 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 468 Times in 187 Posts
Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Quote:
View Post
I don't think we have created a "superior" culture. It may be a preferable one to live in, though. But some of the goods we have in our culture come from places where conditions aren't so good so in a sense they are all part of the system we have. So we have good culture living off and maintaining bad culture. We are just lucky living in the good part of it.
Well said - for most of the people posting here our culture is great because compared to most of the world, we in 'the West' live like kings.

The flipside of our cheap consumer goods, cheap oil and cheap commodities (relatively speaking) isn't so much fun for the people in the rest of the world.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05.06.2010, 17:56
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Quote:
View Post
Our great civilisation is based on the wealth of plunder and slaves and continues to be so, so yes great for us, but no so much for the workers in Asia, Latin America, USA who let us live as we do.
Quote:
View Post
Well said - for most of the people posting here our culture is great because compared to most of the world, we in 'the West' live like kings.

The flipside of our cheap consumer goods, cheap oil and cheap commodities (relatively speaking) isn't so much fun for the people in the rest of the world.
Sorry guys, that's just a really bad understanding of the way economics works. The people who work in factories in China don't have a crappy life because kids in London want cheap plastic toys. Without the kids in London, they'd have an even worse life.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 05.06.2010, 20:08
scribble's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 8xxx
Posts: 685
Groaned at 18 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 598 Times in 304 Posts
scribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond reputescribble has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Quote:
View Post
The flipside of our cheap consumer goods, cheap oil and cheap commodities (relatively speaking) isn't so much fun for the people in the rest of the world.
Lot of the problems are self made and have no direct connection with the west. It's easy and convenient to blame west for everything.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank scribble for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 05.06.2010, 20:18
sharkey's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lausanne (Previously)
Posts: 781
Groaned at 7 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 1,107 Times in 500 Posts
sharkey has a reputation beyond reputesharkey has a reputation beyond reputesharkey has a reputation beyond reputesharkey has a reputation beyond reputesharkey has a reputation beyond reputesharkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Quote:
View Post
I don't know if it's superior, but I can't think of a culture I'd rather live in.
Nah. Pre-Christian Ireland. Perfection.

Wonderful music and poetry, epic sagas, heroes to beat the band, A fish that gained all the knowledge of the world, and every so often, a good old fashioned war over a bull. What more could a man want*?

*Apart from central heating
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank sharkey for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 05.06.2010, 20:59
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,210
Groaned at 86 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 5,788 Times in 2,254 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Very good question Scribble. I also spent some time thinking about it. There is one interesting point to address as well with this question: why do others also believe their culture is superior to our culture? The answer is that you can't measure the benefit of another culture if you are not living inside it. Therefore living inside western culture you can't measure the positive sides of african culture, because you are not using the right tools. It happened to me hearing africans saying how decadent and retard the western society is when they heard the stories of thousands of old people who died of thirst alone in major cities without any help in europe during summer 2003.
You can have moral, technical, scientific references to compare cultures but it's almost impossible to compare them on all levels.

The topic is very deep and broad, but the most helpful book I read about it and helped me a lot is from the brightest spirit of 20th century, Claude Levi-Strauss (french ethnologist) "Race and History". You may find an extract of that book on Unesco site.
He basically brings the proof that the question of superiority of cultures is as absurd as the question of superiority of races. I encourage everyone to read it, it's not a waste of time.
__________________
Resist, support, donate: ACLU
They tried to bury us, they did not know that we are seeds (Mexican proverb)
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank MrVertigo for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 05.06.2010, 21:19
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,841
Groaned at 299 Times in 256 Posts
Thanked 22,324 Times in 8,106 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Quote:
View Post
Are there not problems in the west? Sure there are many but on the whole I feel the positives outweigh the negatives more than in any other part of the world.
I agree, but would add that we developed our life not only through the work of others as Hash mentioned, but through a gigantic abuse of the resources we have on this planet. I am not a green activist, but even I see that we - the "developed" world - do not use our superior technology for the common good, but the short term profits of few. I would expect that out power will keep us on top of the food chain, quite literally, so even if we overfished the seas or have other food shortages, you will still not suffer from hunger here... but how long will this work out?
Industrialization happened only in the past 150 years and we already reached the peaks of many supplies we have... to say it positive: Even if we are the most developed by now, we need to speed up in order to keep our life as comfortable as it is.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05.06.2010, 22:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,172
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Modern western culture superior to any other culture ever?

Quote:
View Post
I don't buy views that all religions, cultures, nations, customs etc are equal or have similar merit.
Similar merit??? Nobody said the merit had anything to do with it.

If all humans are born free an equal, humans inherent freedom is of same essence for all.
If freedom is of same essence for all, the use of human freedom by said humans is of same nature.
If the usage humans do of their inherent freedom is of same nature every where, there is no predictable view to be had on any given such behaviour.

Thus: Any given such behaviour being called culture, there is no predilection of a culture to be by nature of different value from another one. Hence there are no differences by nature, differences are contingent.

This is the idea. Not your own rewording. (Is there a philosophy teacher in the room?)
__________________
Es wird nichts ausgelassen, um mich hier herauszuekeln. Ein Lehrbuch. False accusations and attacks continue. There is no stopping righteous people when they are wrong.

Last edited by Faltrad; 05.06.2010 at 22:37. Reason: add on.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
culture chris_c Introductions 0 13.04.2008 13:13
About culture and cultures? boccalino Forum support 7 19.03.2008 11:43
The Wasting Culture Salsa_Lover Daily life 15 12.11.2007 22:17
Culture Vultures Polorise Social events 2 28.05.2007 14:54


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0