Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22.07.2010, 17:47
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,569
Groaned at 208 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Yet again the Met get away with manslaughter [was murder]

SOURCE

A police officer who was filmed pushing a man to the ground during the G20 protests will not face charges over his death.

Ian Tomlinson, 47, died after being caught up in the clashes on 1 April 2009 in the City of London.

Director of Public Prosecutions Keir Starmer said there was no prospect of conviction because experts could not agree on how Mr Tomlinson died.

Last edited by Upthehatters2008; 22.07.2010 at 18:38. Reason: OP Title distracts from the debate.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Upthehatters2008 for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 22.07.2010, 17:58
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,899
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
Anthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

nor should in my opinion. He clearly provokes being pushed out of the way and the cop doesn not push that hard with intend to kill.

Sad he died but in my opinion nothing should have been brought against the cop
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Anthony1406 for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at Anthony1406 for this post:
  #3  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:02
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
SOURCE

A police officer who was filmed pushing a man to the ground during the G20 protests will not face charges over his death.

Ian Tomlinson, 47, died after being caught up in the clashes on 1 April 2009 in the City of London.

Director of Public Prosecutions Keir Starmer said there was no prospect of conviction because experts could not agree on how Mr Tomlinson died.
OK, "murder" is a bit strong, but certainly the cop should be fired, if not even serve some time behind bars. He didn't intend to do the guy harm, but if I push someone and he falls and dies, I go to jail. So should the cop.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:04
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,569
Groaned at 208 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
OK, "murder" is a bit strong, but certainly the cop should be fired, if not even serve some time behind bars. He didn't intend to do the guy harm, but if I push someone and he falls and dies, I go to jail. So should the cop.
Perhaps so, I tried to play on words, but to face no charges at all is disgraceful.
Was he even disciplined ?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:06
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,569
Groaned at 208 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
nor should in my opinion. He clearly provokes being pushed out of the way and the cop doesn not push that hard with intend to kill.

Sad he died but in my opinion nothing should have been brought against the cop
Surely you don't believe he provoked the cop ?
He was an innocent newspaper seller trying to get home. The Cops were up for it. A man died as a result of harsh unnecessary treatment. Justice dictates that action is taken.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,899
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
Anthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Why should he. The guy is obviously provoking even though somewhere in the article it says he is no part of it. If he wasn't he could have easily gone behind the police line and walked away. And it seems he had enough medical conditions to add to it.

It is bad enough police cant carry a gun anymore and get pushed around all the time. Now they should be charged for pushing someone who is clearly provoking a reaction???
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Anthony1406 for this post:
  #7  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:10
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,569
Groaned at 208 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
pushing someone who is clearly provoking a reaction???

Did we watch the same video ??? How on Earth can you say he provoked them ?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:10
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,899
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
Anthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
Surely you don't believe he provoked the cop ?
He was an innocent newspaper seller trying to get home. The Cops were up for it. A man died as a result of harsh unnecessary treatment. Justice dictates that action is taken.

I read this post after:
You do not see the cops saying to get out away with a dog biting his ankles....
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Anthony1406 for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,899
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
Anthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
Did we watch the same video ??? How on Earth can you say he provoked them ?

And of course the cops are up for it. It is a demonstration rally whatever. They need to treat everyone there the same unless he makes it clear he has no business there or with them and walk the other way.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:13
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
nor should in my opinion. He clearly provokes being pushed out of the way and the cop doesn not push that hard with intend to kill.

Sad he died but in my opinion nothing should have been brought against the cop
What a stupid statement. Police are there to help and support the general public, not push them or intimidate them in any way. And what rubbish you are talking, the Brutish policeman pushes the guy to the ground, in the back! 2 out of 3 autopsies confirmed that a violent event brought a long term illness to a terminal conclusion, but as was dealt with in the 'Peach' case, the health of the individual does not grant the offender carte blanche to commit murder. He was not part of the riot and Britain is not a police state, you pay your taxes, you have the right to walk down the street when ever you like, so the 'provoking' affirmation is baseless.
And it was an attack because the policeman was not in any danger nor protecting himself, it was a proactive action of violence by the police, one of many that day.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at for this post:
  #11  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,899
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
Anthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
What a stupid statement. Police are there to help and support the general public, not push them or intimidate them in any way. And what rubbish you are talking, the Brutish policeman pushes the guy to the ground, in the back! 2 out of 3 autopsies confirmed that a violent event brought a long term illness to a terminal conclusion, but as was dealt with in the 'Peach' case, the health of the individual does not grant the offendercarte blanche to commit murder. He was not part of the riot and Britain is not a police state, you pay your taxes, you have the right to walk down the street when ever you like, so the 'provoking' affirmation is baseless.
And it was an attack because the policeman was not in any danger nor protecting himself, it was a proactive action of violence by the police, one of many that day.

You do not have the right to keep walking if the cop tells you not to. Thats the way it is even in England and because of crap like this Police doesnt get respect anymore.

I am saying if he was not part of it, he could have walked behind the line or whatever. The whole riot was a treat to the police and general public and he was considered to be part of it.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:19
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,569
Groaned at 208 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
You do not have the right to keep walking if the cop tells you not to. Thats the way it is even in England and because of crap like this Police doesnt get respect anymore.

I am saying if he was not part of it, he could have walked behind the line or whatever. The whole riot was a treat to the police and general public and he was considered to be part of it.
He was walking away from the cops with his hands in his pockets !!!
How more harmless do you want a victim to be ? He worked in the area and was going on his usual route home.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,899
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
Anthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
He was walking away from the cops with his hands in his pockets !!!
How more harmless do you want a victim to be ? He worked in the area and was going on his usual route home.

You do not know what he said (nor do I ) but it was clear in my eyes he was not working with the police and therefor seen as a protester>threat>pushed out of the way. cop did so with minimal force(a good push but not that strong) the guy simply fell over and ......

You want cops to ask nicely for protesters, thieves, etc to stop doing it and be on their way? oh wait thats what todays society has already come to....

Any other takers for the discussion? just dont want to turn this into a pissing match again as both our minds are made up....
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:24
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,569
Groaned at 208 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
You do not know what he said (nor do I ) but it was clear in my eyes he was not working with the police and therefor seen as a protester>threat>pushed out of the way. cop did so with minimal force(a good push but not that strong) the guy simply fell over and ......

You want cops to ask nicely for protesters, thieves, etc to stop doing it and be on their way? oh wait thats what todays society has already come to....
Delusional claptrap.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:25
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,899
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
Anthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
Delusional claptrap.

I see if that is the direction you would like to take this debate in then F of seriously.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:29
Papa Goose's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ägeri
Posts: 3,711
Groaned at 194 Times in 163 Posts
Thanked 4,287 Times in 1,811 Posts
Papa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond reputePapa Goose has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
What a stupid statement. Police are there to help and support the general public, not push them or intimidate them in any way. And what rubbish you are talking, the Brutish policeman pushes the guy to the ground, in the back! 2 out of 3 autopsies confirmed that a violent event brought a long term illness to a terminal conclusion, but as was dealt with in the 'Peach' case, the health of the individual does not grant the offender carte blanche to commit murder. He was not part of the riot and Britain is not a police state, you pay your taxes, you have the right to walk down the street when ever you like, so the 'provoking' affirmation is baseless.
And it was an attack because the policeman was not in any danger nor protecting himself, it was a proactive action of violence by the police, one of many that day.
Oh please, that day the police were under a lot of strain and suffered enough of the attacks you mentioned during that period. Certainly the video's shown depict the rozzers in the worst possible light, but that sells news print. Police are human and can make mistakes or act in a way that in hind sight and from the comfort of an arm chair can be singled out as terrible.

I don't believe that the police should be immediately subject to the same process as civilians. In the broader context, if during riots or disturbances the police cannot act (mostly well within reason) for fear of prosecution, they will do nothing (bystanders refusing to give 1st aid syndrome), then when the sh1t hits the fan they be accused of standing by and doing nothing.... so either way they are damned.

Should the cop face an internal disciplinary panel certainly, and be punished accordingly. If he'd have laid into the guy, criminal action definately, but he pushed the guy to move him along, from which the poor guy died. So tragic, but not murder.
__________________
How do you know if a Frenchman has been in your garden.... your rubbish is gone, your dog is pregnant.... but at least your cabbages are pest free
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank Papa Goose for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at Papa Goose for this post:
  #17  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:32
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
You do not have the right to keep walking if the cop tells you not to. Thats the way it is even in England and because of crap like this Police doesnt get respect anymore.

I am saying if he was not part of it, he could have walked behind the line or whatever. The whole riot was a treat to the police and general public and he was considered to be part of it.
You, friend, are an idiot, if you believe the words you so vehemently utter. But because you are quite obviously a foreigner unused to British politics I give you the benefit of the doubt and advise you to listen to your more moderate, (and British) peers.

We invented the Police, and we ultimately control their actions and pay their wages, that is why they must call us ‘sir’, it may not be the case in the rest of Europe or America, but it is the case in Britain. We have no curfew or police controlled state, a police man can only issue orders to a member of the public if he has good reason to believe he is involved in or abetting criminal actions, the same goes for arrest and stopping and searching.
The protesters where ‘kettled’ pregnant women and people going to and from work where illegally detained in the street for up to 12 hours, nobody in the ‘kettle’ could leave, which is an abuse of police power in itself.

Hot tip – get the facts, and learn basic spelling / grammatical syntax
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users groan at for this post:
  #18  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:33
Upthehatters2008's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the kitchen at parties.
Posts: 4,569
Groaned at 208 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 6,078 Times in 2,378 Posts
Upthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond reputeUpthehatters2008 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
Oh please, that day the police were under a lot of strain and suffered enough of the attacks you mentioned during that period. Certainly the video's shown depict the rozzers in the worst possible light, but that sells news print. Police are human and can make mistakes or act in a way that in hind sight and from the comfort of an arm chair can be singled out as terrible.

I don't believe that the police should be immediately subject to the same process as civilians. In the broader context, if during riots or disturbances the police cannot act (mostly well within reason) for fear of prosecution, they will do nothing (bystanders refusing to give 1st aid syndrome), then when the sh1t hits the fan they be accused of standing by and doing nothing.... so either way they are damned.

Should the cop face an internal disciplinary panel certainly, and be punished accordingly. If he'd have laid into the guy, criminal action definately, but he pushed the guy to move him along, from which the poor guy died. So tragic, but not murder.
As I corrected myself earlier on, Murder was a play on words. Clearly , as a man died as a result of unwarranted Police action, the lesser crime of Manslaughter is easier and safer to apply.

The police are subject to the same laws and rules as us, i.e. we all have to act within the law. Have a good look at that area and time in the video, people are smiling , laughing and bantering. The police were standing by looking calm and having no need to act. Note the lack of riot shields and riot Police. There were no riots there.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:35
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,899
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
Anthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
You, friend, are an idiot, if you believe the words you so vehemently utter. But because you are quite obviously a foreigner unused to British politics I give you the benefit of the doubt and advise you to listen to your more moderate, (and British) peers.

We invented the Police, and we ultimately control their actions and pay their wages, that is why they must call us ‘sir’, it may not be the case in the rest of Europe or America, but it is the case in Britain. We have no curfew or police controlled state, a police man can only issue orders to a member of the public if he has good reason to believe he is involved in or abetting criminal actions, the same goes for arrest and stopping and searching.
The protesters where ‘kettled’ pregnant women and people going to and from work where illegally detained in the street for up to 12 hours, nobody in the ‘kettle’ could leave, which is an abuse of police power in itself.

Hot tip – get the facts, and learn basic spelling / grammatical syntax
I hope one day you will need to police and they will not be there.

As far as the spelling goes...can you read, write and speak 3 languages and intermediately speak 2 other? When you do then feel free to comment.


BACK ON TOPIC
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at Anthony1406 for this post:
  #20  
Old 22.07.2010, 18:35
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Yet again the Met get away with murder.

Quote:
View Post
Oh please, that day the police were under a lot of strain and suffered enough of the attacks you mentioned during that period. Certainly the video's shown depict the rozzers in the worst possible light, but that sells news print. Police are human and can make mistakes or act in a way that in hind sight and from the comfort of an arm chair can be singled out as terrible.

I don't believe that the police should be immediately subject to the same process as civilians. In the broader context, if during riots or disturbances the police cannot act (mostly well within reason) for fear of prosecution, they will do nothing (bystanders refusing to give 1st aid syndrome), then when the sh1t hits the fan they be accused of standing by and doing nothing.... so either way they are damned.

Should the cop face an internal disciplinary panel certainly, and be punished accordingly. If he'd have laid into the guy, criminal action definately, but he pushed the guy to move him along, from which the poor guy died. So tragic, but not murder.
Certainly not murder, you're right. We all do things in the heat of the moment. Maybe you loose it and hit someone. Maybe he's an epileptic and you didn't know and he has a fit and dies. You're going to jail. It's terrible for you too, but thats the way it goes.


Quote:
View Post
You do not have the right to keep walking if the cop tells you not to. Thats the way it is even in England and because of crap like this Police doesnt get respect anymore.

I am saying if he was not part of it, he could have walked behind the line or whatever. The whole riot was a treat to the police and general public and he was considered to be part of it.
Oh god. Yes you do have the right to keep walking whatever the police say. Why on earth should police be given any more respect than anyone else? Walking in front of a line rather than behind it does not mean you forfeit your life. What's it like to see the world in such simplistic terms? I hope you never accidentally walk left when the sign says right. The world will surely end.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
met;filthy;murdering;pigs




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Has anyone ever seen/met/knows any famous people in Switzerland? transition General off-topic 182 10.09.2014 13:27
How many forummers have you met? monkeynut Daily life 284 18.07.2009 09:07
Looking for someone I met in Kyoto and Tokyo and Paris shine General off-topic 1 16.05.2008 14:21
We met at the Talacker last 30th may! you are a professor at ETH MAR25 General off-topic 2 05.05.2008 14:34


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0