Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 17.09.2010, 11:47
Gibreal
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

a must watch video somehow related to the subject

* contains rated pictures but reality

Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 17.09.2010, 13:18
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

So have these soldiers been found guilty yet?
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 17.09.2010, 15:21
Gibreal
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

Quote:
So have these soldiers been found guilty yet?
NO

they are are americans
Reply With Quote
This user groans at for this post:
  #84  
Old 17.09.2010, 17:24
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

Quote:
View Post
NO

they are are americans
What has the fact that they are American got to do with it? Is the trial over or not? What was the outcome? If the trial isn't over then the men, surely, are innocent until they are proved not to be?

Or are Americans incapable of administering a fair trial, unlike, say, Pakistan...?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #85  
Old 17.09.2010, 17:52
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,200
Groaned at 86 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 5,788 Times in 2,254 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

Quote:
What has the fact that they are American got to do with it? Is the trial over or not? What was the outcome? If the trial isn't over then the men, surely, are innocent until they are proved not to be?

Or are Americans incapable of administering a fair trial, unlike, say, Pakistan...?
military justice is to justice what military music is to music.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MrVertigo for this useful post:
  #86  
Old 17.09.2010, 17:59
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

Quote:
View Post
military justice is to justice what military music is to music.
Not really. Non judicial punishments aboard ship under the Uniform Code are often confinement to quarters. When was the last time you were locked in your room for 6 weeks without trial?


http://www.jag.navy.mil/documents/mcm2008.pdf

Trust me, next time you're accused of shooting someone in the head, you want to be tried by a jury of your peers, not by a single, badly paid JAG officer in a closed court.

Oh, and to paraphrase Darth Vader - I find your bleeding heart, misinformed socialism, disturbing.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 17.09.2010, 18:15
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,200
Groaned at 86 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 5,788 Times in 2,254 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

Quote:
View Post
Not really. Non judicial punishments aboard ship under the Uniform Code are often confinement to quarters. When was the last time you were locked in your room for 6 weeks without trial?


http://www.jag.navy.mil/documents/mcm2008.pdf

Trust me, next time you're accused of shooting someone in the head, you want to be tried by a jury of your peers, not by a single, badly paid JAG officer in a closed court.

Oh, and to paraphrase Darth Vader - I find your bleeding heart, misinformed socialism, disturbing.
economisto, i have some important information for you: stop believing you are the only well informed, educated guy on this forum or earth.

1) the fact that the US do not want to have their soldiers be judged by an international recognized tribunal is very disturbing as well. They need to cover up their guys obviously.

2) Go and show your trust in the US military justice to the parents of Haditha massacre.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MrVertigo for this useful post:
  #88  
Old 17.09.2010, 18:19
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

I didn't think that the trial had started yet. It probably won't until next year- Am I wrong?

Because this will go deeper, it will be an investigation of why we are in Afghanistan and what we are achieving? In the last week we have had news of I think 4 deaths of young soldiers in our area. A marine state athlete, former boy scout's body will be home today.

On the other hand, how can these soldiers come home? What will they come home to? Imagine what will happen to the unemployment rates in poor areas. In rural Upstate New York the biggest industry for youths to join is Fort Drum. War is a lucrative industry.

http://www.drumcountrybusiness.com/businessOpps_v3.cfm

Who funds the Taliban? I believe it to be Saudia Arabia, the same country with whom we have just promised to provide a massive arms deal. It hasn't gone through yet
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #89  
Old 17.09.2010, 18:20
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

Quote:
There we go: they've been caught, they're going to trial.

What are we discussing here?
You seem to turn away from big issues; there are major issues here on a multitude of levels. These guys where caught, what about the guys who are clever and don't get caught, think about all the raping murdering and abusing occupying soldiers have meted out to civilians since the second world war, think of the stuff your grand-dad probably got away with and ones like him, those 'heroes'.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #90  
Old 17.09.2010, 18:30
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

Quote:
View Post
stop believing you are the only well informed, educated guy on this forum or earth.
Awww Mr V - it just looks like that because I believe I'm this only well informed guy between the two of us.

Quote:
View Post
1) the fact that the US do not want to have their soldiers be judged by an international recognized tribunal is very disturbing as well. They need to cover up their guys obviously.
I've always wondered why uneducated socialists have the UN/International institution fetish. I'm sure you'll explain to me why we should trust the UN over the USA, even though no one elected the UN, and it acts in the demonstrable interests of precisely no one. Moreover the entire theoretical background of international authority is bogus - compulsory submission to the ICJ exists as long as it exists for any country, they have no actual power whatsoever. Rich power countries can afford to ignore them in most cases, poorer, more reliant countries can afford to ignore the ICJ only in exceptional cases when forced to. The thought of a case I was involved in being escalated to the ECJ fills me with fear - I want to be tried under a proper jurisdictional court with a proper case history, not some brand new bureaucratic office accountable to no one.

Quote:
View Post
2) Go and show your trust in the US military justice to the parents of Haditha massacre.
And this is why you're known as "bleeding heart" socialists and not just normal socialists. Come now, wipe your tears, seek counselling. I'm sure you really feel the pain of the Haditha Massacre, just like you cry every time a baby dies of AIDS. Yes, the massacre was terrible. Disgusting. Same as every other massacre. Let's assume even, that justice was not done. So what? What does this specific case say about Military Justice, American Justice, justice in the West, justice in general? Nothing. Please argue with evidence rather than emotion, it doesn't get you anywhere.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #91  
Old 17.09.2010, 18:33
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

Quote:
View Post
You seem to turn away from big issues; there are major issues here on a multitude of levels. These guys where caught, what about the guys who are clever and don't get caught, think about all the raping murdering and abusing occupying soldiers have meted out to civilians since the second world war, think of the stuff your grand-dad probably got away with and ones like him, those 'heroes'.
Yeah, you're right that there are probably people who don't get caught when they do bad things. They're probably in the majority (against those that are caught). This isn't exclusive to soldiers or Americans or anyone else. It's probably greater in Iraq since there are more criminals there (no...wait...Arabs are all passive little lambs who have the right to blame absolutely everything on America, every inhabitant of which was born evil). And don't bring people's grandfather's into a debate - seriously, you've almost finished that masters now, we expect more of you.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 17.09.2010, 18:34
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

Who funds Al-Qaeda?

Quote:
Getting Saudi officials on board is a big victory. But the kingdom's charities are another matter. "There continues to exist a pool of donors who are ready, willing and able to contribute to al Qaeda," says Treasury's Cohen. "We have at least temporarily disrupted some" of them.
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/03...ankrupt_3.html

Perhaps the arms shipment is part of a bargain that Saudi Arabia cracks down on the funding?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #93  
Old 17.09.2010, 18:35
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Renegade poster 'repeatedly broke own promise to keep quiet until after trial'

Quote:
View Post
I didn't think that the trial had started yet. It probably won't until next year- Am I wrong?
...
pum, pum, pum
...
It hasn't gone through yet
Quote:
View Post
I'll leave you all to it now and come back when the results are in to see the results of the courtcase and the fallout - as I have with other threads.
___________
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #94  
Old 17.09.2010, 18:36
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

Quote:
View Post
Who funds Al-Qaeda?
Wait....don't tell me....it's George Bush's elderly grandmother. She sells her evil Republican knitted baby booties and funnels the proceeds through second level Aramco contracts.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 17.09.2010, 18:40
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,553
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

Quote:
View Post
Who funds Al-Qaeda?

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/03...ankrupt_3.html

Perhaps the arms shipment is part of a bargain that Saudi Arabia cracks down on the funding?
This is completely off topic.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Gastro Gnome for this useful post:
  #96  
Old 17.09.2010, 18:44
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

Quote:
View Post
This is completely off topic.
What rubbish. All forum veterans know Hoppy is judged by special standards. Special.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 17.09.2010, 18:54
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,200
Groaned at 86 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 5,788 Times in 2,254 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

Quote:
View Post
Awww Mr V - it just looks like that because I believe I'm this only well informed guy between the two of us.

I've always wondered why uneducated socialists have the UN/International institution fetish. I'm sure you'll explain to me why we should trust the UN over the USA, even though no one elected the UN, and it acts in the demonstrable interests of precisely no one. Moreover the entire theoretical background of international authority is bogus - compulsory submission to the ICJ exists as long as it exists for any country, they have no actual power whatsoever. Rich power countries can afford to ignore them in most cases, poorer, more reliant countries can afford to ignore the ICJ only in exceptional cases when forced to. The thought of a case I was involved in being escalated to the ECJ fills me with fear - I want to be tried under a proper jurisdictional court with a proper case history, not some brand new bureaucratic office accountable to no one.

And this is why you're known as "bleeding heart" socialists and not just normal socialists. Come now, wipe your tears, seek counselling. I'm sure you really feel the pain of the Haditha Massacre, just like you cry every time a baby dies of AIDS. Yes, the massacre was terrible. Disgusting. Same as every other massacre. Let's assume even, that justice was not done. So what? What does this specific case say about Military Justice, American Justice, justice in the West, justice in general? Nothing. Please argue with evidence rather than emotion, it doesn't get you anywhere.
The statements you made are a confirmation of your lack of lucidity and your incapacity of making a sound analysis. You're so way off the mark that you are almost on orbit. Once you're back on earth we can then have an intelligent discussion.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MrVertigo for this useful post:
  #98  
Old 17.09.2010, 19:05
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

Quote:
View Post
What rubbish. All forum veterans know Hoppy is judged by special standards. Special.
Yep, like I said before at least I'm not common. but thanks Weeejeem for reminding me that I am a forum addict.

But honestly, I don't think that the finding to Al-Qaeda, the war in Afghanistan, the massive shipment of the arms to Saudi Arabia, the unemployment rates if the soldiers come home and the timing of this trial are unrelated.

Otherwise they would have been court martialed by now.

Too many questions are being asked by the US public about why we are in Afghanistan and the reasons for invading Iraq.

Recently there was also this:

Quote:
With each revelation, or court decision, on US torture in Iraq, Afghanistan and Gitmo—or the airing this month of The Tillman Story and Lawrence Wright's My Trip to Al-Qaeda—I am reminded of the chilling story of Alyssa Peterson, who died seven years ago this week. Appalled when ordered to take part in interrogations that, no doubt, involved what most would call torture, she refused, then killed herself a few days later, on September 15, 2003.
http://www.thenation.com/blog/154649...e-part-torture


Do we really want another quantanamera qauntanomo mess now?

Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 20.09.2010, 18:59
Gibreal
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

ofcourse they are uncapable to give justice when it is about specific people; have you ever read about doctor Afia Siddiqui its a shame on you and your system, why did they attack Iraq ? do you have had any trial for fake reports for weapons of mass destruction, who was responsible for murdering hundred thousand of innocent people for sake of your OIL NEEDS ?



Quote:
What has the fact that they are American got to do with it? Is the trial over or not? What was the outcome? If the trial isn't over then the men, surely, are innocent until they are proved not to be?

Or are Americans incapable of administering a fair trial, unlike, say, Pakistan...?
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 20.09.2010, 19:13
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,910
Groaned at 182 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 6,187 Times in 3,401 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Renegade soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport'

Quote:
There we go: they've been caught, they're going to trial.

What are we discussing here?
Right DB ,How is the weater in "Schwyz"
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Turkish soldiers held in 'deputy PM assassination plot' Castro International affairs/politics 5 28.12.2009 11:25
[Video] Afghan Massacre - by Jamie Doran jrspet International affairs/politics 8 14.12.2008 20:52


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0