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Old 19.10.2010, 11:34
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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This hysteria about Islamist terrorism is a distraction from the real problems of large scale immigration - the strain upon health and educational infrastructures, the disruption to established communities, and the potential of criminal behaviour among disenfranchised members of immigrant communities.
True. I guess the majority of people who feel uncomfortable with Islamic immigration aren't esepcially friends of other types of immigration either. But many people are afraid of calling the beast by its name for fear of being called racists.
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  #282  
Old 19.10.2010, 11:36
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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She was a Native American. Her and her family were persecuted and like many Native kids send to those catholic churchs were too many got abused by the Catholic representants.
So you are one quarter Native American, one quarter catholic Priest ....
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  #283  
Old 19.10.2010, 11:44
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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True. I guess the majority of people who feel uncomfortable with Islamic immigration aren't esepcially friends of other types of immigration either. But many people are afraid of calling the beast by its name for fear of being called racists.
Well, I think not friends of other mass immigration either. And then there is the combination of that immigration and the terrorism going on in the world for the last decade. Which is basically adding up as very bad publicity for Islam.
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  #284  
Old 19.10.2010, 12:42
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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True. I guess the majority of people who feel uncomfortable with Islamic immigration aren't esepcially friends of other types of immigration either. But many people are afraid of calling the beast by its name for fear of being called racists.
As I think I said in one of my last posts: I am critical to some developments that look like a big step back to me - when minorities get so strong that they demand things we are over with for a century or more. I respect anybodies religious feelings, but that girls have a right to an education is not a religious topic for me... and yes, I expect an immigrant to adapt to a new country very much in the way I adapt when I move here or wherever I go next.

But: Is it really calling the beast by its name? Is really Muslim immigration the biggest problem we have? An old German saying is "Whenever the CSU goes below 40%, they start hitting the foreigner drum..." And this is exactly what happens right now: The conservative government is in an all time low. CDU/CSU: 31% - this is the lowest ever measured value since the ZDF started to do so regularly 33 years ago!

What happens? The positions get stronger, suddenly a chancellor decides to bash immigrants instead of trying to integrate them and a prime minister of Bavaria lets out factually obviously wrong statements as "We need less immigrants" while everyone who can read very basic statistics knows that Germany is LOSING population and would need far more to keep the current standard of living up.

This is just one example, but the principle is the same here: There is an election coming up in Switzerland and all parties need to have a clear profile. The SVP campaign on criminal foreigners leaves many questions unanswered (to say the least - I do not want to derail this thread so if you want to, we can discuss this issues with that proposal elsewhere...). But it makes clear what voters get when they vote for the party.

Wilders is in my eyes more extreme both in his attitude and position. So I believe that he really collects mainly "protest votes" of people who are simply disillusioned and unhappy with the current politicial system of the Netherlands. They have fears and do not feel the politicians able to address them.
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  #285  
Old 19.10.2010, 12:46
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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Eeeeh, I hope you meant that in a cynical way or I misunderstood that, cause this guy was very real, especially to all his victims...
Ofcourse it was a cynical statement.

He was someone who changed the history of the world forever (while writing it, literally), he was also someone who was so clearly deranged and drunk with power that his book however famous it may be will never ever be in my personal library.
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  #286  
Old 19.10.2010, 13:06
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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So you are one quarter Native American, one quarter catholic Priest ....
Stupid!
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  #287  
Old 19.10.2010, 13:08
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He was someone who changed the history of the world forever (while writing it, literally), he was also someone who was so clearly deranged and drunk with power that his book however famous it may be will never ever be in my personal library.
I'd quite like to read it (I have a collection of ideological literature, in which there is a large nazi-shaped hole). Is the possession of this book illegal in Switzerland?
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  #288  
Old 19.10.2010, 13:11
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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There may be more than a billion people peacefully practicing it, but when you have a million or even a couple hundred posing a threat then they will be the ones getting the attention. Listen, i feel bad for the moderate muslims caught in the middle of all this, i really do, but the fact is that if a group of people are preaching extremism then someones got to take a stand against it before it gets out of hand. I am not a supporter of wilders, but religious fanaticism freaks the shit outta me, and as a democratic country you gotta do what it takes to ensure your country stays that way and anyone who threatens that status should not be allowed to do so. Ok so you can hardly claim any muslim in europe is a terrorist, but how are you to know he doesn't fund terror organizations? Should that be tolerated?
How is it getting 'out of hand' ? A few people turn up on telly and say they are going to kill people. We kill some people with drones before they get round to trying to start to scrape together their next attack, jobs a good 'un.

As far as I can tell, they managed to launch one "successful" attack nearly 10 years ago and a couple of smaller ones since. Hardly 'the end of the world is nigh' now is it ?
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  #289  
Old 19.10.2010, 13:13
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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I'd quite like to read it (I have a collection of ideological literature, in which there is a large nazi-shaped hole). Is the possession of this book illegal in Switzerland?
Trust me it is really really shitty written. Hitler was bad at painting, but his writing was nothing more than a waste of paper. The book only holds a historic value in the sense that everyone had a copy - you got them when you get married, a promotion or anything somewhat important - but nobody managed to read it. Not because people were fed up with it - I believe that even most Nazis never read is because of the terrible writing...

Here you go: there is not surprisingly an online version in English. http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/
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  #290  
Old 19.10.2010, 13:17
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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Trust me it is really really shitty written. Hitler was bad at painting, but his writing was nothing more than a waste of paper.
You should read Colonel Ghaddafi's Little Green Book (yes... I've got it... )

Thanks for the link.
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  #291  
Old 19.10.2010, 13:34
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

Geert Wilders' lawyer apparently has a 14 hour (!) plea which he will start this afternoon
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  #292  
Old 19.10.2010, 15:02
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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I'd quite like to read it (I have a collection of ideological literature, in which there is a large nazi-shaped hole). Is the possession of this book illegal in Switzerland?
Knock yourself out
My hubby actually found a copy, a very early edition in a brocki here somewhere, later sold it (overpriced it, nicely done my love)
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  #293  
Old 19.10.2010, 16:14
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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Geert Wilders' lawyer apparently has a 14 hour (!) plea which he will start this afternoon
I suspect there will be a need for good strong coffee. A lot of it.
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  #294  
Old 19.10.2010, 16:34
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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Trust me it is really really shitty written. Hitler was bad at painting, but his writing was nothing more than a waste of paper. The book only holds a historic value in the sense that everyone had a copy - you got them when you get married, a promotion or anything somewhat important - but nobody managed to read it. Not because people were fed up with it - I believe that even most Nazis never read is because of the terrible writing...

Here you go: there is not surprisingly an online version in English. http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/
Yep, hardly anybody ever read the thing, not even hardcore Nazis as it was so boring. I once leafed through a copy in a second hand bookshop in London and from my very summary impression the first part of the book seems to be autobiographical and is mostly whining on how badly he was treated by everybody before he became famous. The second part tries to be more philosphical but fails somehow. The paragraphs I read discussed the merits of different breeds of farm animals and different types of farming implements used throughout the ages (I kid you not) and tries to look at them from a philosphical point of view, but Hitler's ability to formulate philsophical thought was obviously rather limited (or otherwise I was missing something). I didn't actually find any passages where he rants about Jews or that type of thing but then I only flicked through the pages quickly and read mostly the section headings.

As I said previously, I cannot imagine that this boring book can convert anybody to Naziism. The collector's value of the book derives mostly from it having a photograph of the infamous author at the beginning. I think rather that the reason the ban isn't repealed is that governments are afraid this might look like conceding to neo-Nazis. I don't think anybody honestly believes the book is dangerous, other than maybe for throwing.
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  #295  
Old 19.10.2010, 22:56
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

I think in a way this is exactly the issue

I want to tell those who think the palestinians had their land stolen

that is nonsense, Jews purchased land in Israel since the 19th century

second of all the land of Israel was conquered many times over by the moslems

England etc

England gave what should have been Palestine to create Jordan and there were many many mistakes

Just for your information Israel was the only place that would take Jews

who were kicked out of Europe AND arab lands

that's right there were more than ONE MILLION JEws kicked out of various

Arab lands and they sure did not get EU money nor did they turn to violence

even though they had suffered violence for hundreds of years nor did any Jew

murder Germans or euopeans

The Palestinian problem is to a large extent the making of the ARAB countries who refuse to give the Palestinian brothers a home and they encourage them
to be terrorists and use weapon,

see the latest visit of the president of Iran to Lebanon, his photo smiling with weapons handing it over to the leader of Hizzbalah

says a lot!!

As for the Dutch, dont they deserve to have a homeland for the Dutch ?

It would be one thing if the Moslems behaved like the Jews of Europe and arab lands and were peaceful citizens who did not turn against the very society they lived in however there are too many extreme Moslems that emigrate to the western world and use it to speak out against the western world

Having said that i am against doing the same things to the Moslem immigrants

that they do to Christian and jews

Jews are not allowed in Saudi Arabia and Arab countries by the way..

But i do believe that the west has to be better behaved however there should

be limits, given by smart politicians that address real issues and limit

how much these people can speak against other people

and by these people i mean extreme Moslems

so finally the Jews were the ones who had their land stolen and that is historical facts not religious beliefs

And the Arabs numbering ONE BILLIARD should not be asking for a tiny
strip of land that is the homeland for nearly 7 million jews

DOnt believe me read some history instead of biased media

But having said that i am still very much allergic to right wing politicians

who take a ride on the Moslem immigration issue

If they dont want the Moslems to come, they should limit immigration

but to speak against them is ugly

just as it is ugly to speak against a small nation who brought the world

Jesus christ , einstein , ok, woody allen.. etc etc

Remind me of why anyone would accuse jews of stealing land

when they were kicked out of europe and arab land and had their property stolen

and bought land in Israel ( the rothschild foundation sponsered purchases of land throughout israel in the 19th century, the arabs just "changed" their mind and still today they claim they have rights everywhere)


As for the governments investing in intergration , do the immgrants want that??
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Old 19.10.2010, 23:07
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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Geert Wilders' lawyer apparently has a 14 hour (!) plea which he will start this afternoon
what you don't get in depth, you'll get it in length.
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Old 19.10.2010, 23:08
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

We've done Israel/Palestine to death on this forum.

This thread is not the place for it.
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Old 19.10.2010, 23:12
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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I think in a way this is exactly the issue

I want to tell those who think the palestinians had their land stolen

that is nonsense, Jews purchased land in Israel since the 19th century
(....)
As for the governments investing in intergration , do the immgrants want that??
my god, a post for the israel-palestine thread.

"spirit" of pashosh, leave that starshine body!
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  #299  
Old 19.10.2010, 23:17
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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my god, a post for the israel-palestine thread.

"spirit" of pashosh, leave that starshine body!
Not me, I was busy reading the article you linked to about South Africa and what a fine mess it is.

Starshine's post is off topic, but accurate...
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  #300  
Old 20.10.2010, 09:26
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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Bla bla bla
Non-sense!

Go into the proper thread and prove what you are saying.
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Not me, I was busy reading the article you linked to about South Africa and what a fine mess it is.

Starshine's post is off topic, but accurate...
More non-sense.... but, hey! No one is surprised...
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