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  #301  
Old 20.10.2010, 09:45
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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Non-sense!



More non-sense.... but, hey! No one is surprised...

because you say so?
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  #302  
Old 20.10.2010, 09:49
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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"spirit" of pashosh, leave that starshine body!
I think this phenomenon is known in Hebrew as "the opposer", "ha-Satan".
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  #303  
Old 20.10.2010, 10:21
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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I think this phenomenon is known in Hebrew as "the opposer", "ha-Satan".
You are wrong (again). It's called a Dybbuk.
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  #304  
Old 20.10.2010, 10:29
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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You are wrong (again). It's called a Dybbuk.
Perfect time to finish the discussion (at least till the case is closed on NOV 5th...). We can conclude that Wilders is most likely posessed by a radical Israeli Dibbuk.
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  #305  
Old 20.10.2010, 10:35
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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because you say so?
No because nothing to prove it!
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  #306  
Old 20.10.2010, 11:50
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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No because nothing to prove it!

just about every history book, but really, let's not go into the whole Israel vs Palestine discussion again... the sun just came out in Zürich
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  #307  
Old 20.10.2010, 13:58
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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We can conclude that Wilders is most likely posessed by a radical Israeli Dibbuk.
What does Israel has to do with this ?

Unless, of course, you need to maintain your "Anti Zionism" credentials.
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  #308  
Old 20.10.2010, 14:07
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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What does Israel has to do with this ?

Unless, of course, you need to maintain your "Anti Zionism" credentials.
Aparently I am the one of us two who actually read about the topic of this thread: Wilders is a huge fan of the "Israeli way" of dealing with their Muslim, er, "neighbours". He loves to visit the country and exchanged ideas with the more extreme forces - and you know how extreme some settlers are...

He is the only politician - even and especially in the extreme parties - I have ever heard in Europe to support a police state including "detention" for "potential terrorists". The other politically extreme forces are usually far away from this as they are themselves very close to "potential terrorists"... So: I said "Israel" for very good reasons and the average Jews I met who grew up in Europe do not necessarily have those strong anti-Muslim views. Israelis typically do - based on the Kassams landing in their yards.

I believe that my views are a bit to balanced for you and clearly too balanced to call me "anti-zionist"...
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  #309  
Old 20.10.2010, 14:28
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

Israel treats it's Muslim far better than any other Muslim country - that's why so many muslims are trying to get INTO Israel and become Israelis, and the ones inside don't want the borders to move, so that they could live in a Muslim country without moving house.

You've never heard of Britain which introduced "Administrative detention" to Israel ?

So GW is a fan of Israel, for being able to absorb mass immigration and fight terrorism for over 60 years yet remain a democracy and would like to learn from it's experience rather than fall back on failed cliches and hope for the problem to solve itself ?

Would you rather have him use the Sri lankan, Turkish or Russian methods ?
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  #310  
Old 20.10.2010, 14:54
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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You've never heard of Britain which introduced "Administrative detention" to Israel ?
This old chestnut again? If it's not Israel, it's Singapore or India...

The British Empire introduced a lot of nasty things - concentration camps, administrative detention, caning... it's a long list - a long time ago.

Britain hasn't had any authority over the Levant for more than sixty years.

Isn't it about time you took responsibility for your own actions without blaming your erstwhile colonial masters all the time?
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  #311  
Old 20.10.2010, 14:59
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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The British Empire introduced a lot of nasty things - concentration camps, administrative detention, caning... it's a long list - a long time ago.

..Americans too... don't forget that one...
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  #312  
Old 20.10.2010, 15:05
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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..Americans too... don't forget that one...
Oi! You can't blame us for that one!

I'll give you Canadians, though...
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  #313  
Old 20.10.2010, 15:22
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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This old chestnut again? If it's not Israel, it's Singapore or India...

The British Empire introduced a lot of nasty things - concentration camps, administrative detention, caning... it's a long list - a long time ago.

Britain hasn't had any authority over the Levant for more than sixty years.

Isn't it about time you took responsibility for your own actions without blaming your erstwhile colonial masters all the time?
Treverus said he'd never heard of a European support of Administrative detention. I gave him one example. Maybe I should have used France instead (Detention can be up to 4 years before case is brought to trial), or 18 months in Greece (http://terrorism.about.com/od/counte...Detention-.htm)

Israel is resposible for Administrative detention in israel - and, indeed, these prisoners do have access to Israeli courts which have proven their independance many times. they are not locked away for indefinite term without recourse to justice.

Which goes to show - GW is (maybe) suggesting much harsher means to solve a much smaller problem. Hardly Israel's fault. If anything, there might be Israeli politicians with a GW dybbuk
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  #314  
Old 22.10.2010, 14:08
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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The police and security forces are taking a stand against it every day, quietly and unobtrusively, just like they have stood against terrorism for decades. There is no need for grandstanding gestures, just quiet competence behind the scenes, as life goes on as usual.




Religious fanaticism has been a feature of everyday life for centuries. Why do we have to start worrying about it now?

I agree with you that democratic countries should stay democratic. That's why we have a duty to stand up to the likes of Geert Wilders who want to turn the clock back to the dark ages of European autocracy, using Muslims as an easy scapegoat.





How are we to know that Irish Americans aren't funding terror organisations, like so many of them did throughout the seventies, eighties and nineties (funny how that suddenly stopped when New Yorkers came to realise first hand that terrorists aren't "freedom fighters" after all...)? People do criminal and immoral things all the time - the usual practise in a modern democracy is to punish them and not everyone who looks a bit like them.

This hysteria about Islamist terrorism is a distraction from the real problems of large scale immigration - the strain upon health and educational infrastructures, the disruption to established communities, and the potential of criminal behaviour among disenfranchised members of immigrant communities.
I just watched his interview on bbc, and it appears all he's suggesting is that anyone showing support of radical islam not be granted a platform to do so.

I hear your reasoning to deal with terror after it happens. Thats till i clicked on the pedophile thread here, and i ask myself why wouldn't the same apply here? If a guy is preaching child molestation and has a huge following are we just gonna sit on our backsides and wait till they actually harm someone before convicting them?! I wonder if you feel this is the same. Let the police deal with molestation after it happens. Its happened for generations and we all somehow survived it so lets keep shutting up.

As to why we have to start worrying about religious fanaticism now, well its pretty clear that the radicals who are abusing islam are becoming more and more radical. Which is fine. But the netherlands has a right to request it not take place in their backyard.
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  #315  
Old 22.10.2010, 14:13
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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I just watched his interview on bbc, and it appears all he's suggesting is that anyone showing support of radical islam not be granted a platform to do so.
Erm, no. He wants a bit more than that:
- he wants to outlaw the Koran and compares it to "Mein Kampf".
- he wants to introduce a tax on headscarves of 1000 Euro (?!)
- he wants to preemptively lock up Islamists.
- he wants to choose future immigrants into the Netherlands based on their religion.
...

I am sure I have missed half of his agenda, but he is surely not an average person who is against "extreme" views - he has a rather extreme view himself. And the way he travels Europe - he is looking for platforms for his extreme views very much as Islamists do.
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  #316  
Old 22.10.2010, 14:17
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

When will this trial end already..?
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  #317  
Old 22.10.2010, 14:18
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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When will this trial end already..?
The end is expected on Nov 5th, but given the tricks the lawyers might or might not pull to prolong the proceedings... we do not know.
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  #318  
Old 22.10.2010, 14:45
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

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Erm, no. He wants a bit more than that:
- he wants to outlaw the Koran and compares it to "Mein Kampf".
- he wants to introduce a tax on headscarves of 1000 Euro (?!)
- he wants to preemptively lock up Islamists.
- he wants to choose future immigrants into the Netherlands based on their religion.
...

I am sure I have missed half of his agenda, but he is surely not an average person who is against "extreme" views - he has a rather extreme view himself. And the way he travels Europe - he is looking for platforms for his extreme views very much as Islamists do.
I don't suggest he is doing this in the smartest way possible, but i addressed some of those points. He never suggested anything against anyone of any religion living in the country and respecting its culture.

And i wonder why is he on trial all while there is someone with much less tolerance, preaching outright lies against other cultures and suggesting more extreme methods. One gets death threats and the other is invited to speak in the U.N.
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  #319  
Old 23.10.2010, 11:51
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial


actually i do think it was to the point somehow
i just get really allergic whenver someone accuses jews of stealing land
especially since well..look around at europe who stole land and homes of jews only 60 years ago and are now accusing jews of stealing land of palestinians ( the same land that exchanged hands many times over and now is BACK in jewish hands , purchased to a great extent )

It does make my skin crawl and all thinking well isnt that a great defense mechanism and i dont think it needs much explaination

BUT the Dutch well they have the same thing going
pretty soon the moslems will be accusing THEM of stealing their land
and calling it MOLLAND ( moslem holland)
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  #320  
Old 23.10.2010, 11:54
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Re: Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders goes on trial

Meanwhile, back on topic: The judges in Mr Wilders' trial have been ordered to step down.
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