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Old 16.10.2010, 20:29
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Oh, strike again s'il vous plait



Strike in France, Spain, Greece, Italy,... repeating more or less in short cycles and neverending

Problem is not just that public suffer from all these strikes, and GDP decreases,.... but the main point is that there are milions in these countries not agreeing with any change or reform. Being stubborn to keep their comfort zone and not letting anything to be improved.
I don't wanna say no one should protest for his rights, but it's about being realistic and not idealistic.
For. ex. in France trying to bring pension age from 60 to 62 causes such a chaos in the country. Don't these idealists recognize many countries have 65-66 as pension age, and haven't they heard of population againg or global competitveness,...!?
Pension system will collapse in many countries in Europe if there will be no refom in next a few years, but hey we travail 35 damn heours per semaine, and wanna enjoy garrrdening at 60, so what the hell goddammned government should make us suffer,....... go to street comrades, shout and burn
Same goes for easing labor protection to make job market more competitive,....
There are several areas like this that many governments are afraid of touching because of public unrest and losing votes, but eventually there will be collapse if not continuosly improved.
And let's not 4get these are who vote every time and bring those politicians into work and then not let them any reform if any,...
another + for dear CH!
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Old 16.10.2010, 20:45
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Re: Oh, strike again s'il vous plait

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Same goes for easing labor protection to make job market more competitive,....
Could you explain that one? Are countries with a "hire and fire" system really more competitive?
If I look at the last years, some of the oh so great anglo-saxon model countries did not really master the crisis much better than some of the "pseudo-socialists"... actually did the labor protection method of "Kurzarbeit" (short shifts at a reduced income - supported by tax money -, but you at least keep your job during the crisis) in Germany perform aparently better than the fast laying-off in the US.
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Old 16.10.2010, 20:58
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Re: Oh, strike again s'il vous plait

Socialism has a price. Suck it and see.
Vive La France !
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Old 17.10.2010, 09:54
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Re: Oh, strike again s'il vous plait

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Could you explain that one? Are countries with a "hire and fire" system really more competitive?
If I look at the last years, some of the oh so great anglo-saxon model countries did not really master the crisis much better than some of the "pseudo-socialists"... actually did the labor protection method of "Kurzarbeit" (short shifts at a reduced income - supported by tax money -, but you at least keep your job during the crisis) in Germany perform aparently better than the fast laying-off in the US.
Just compare CH with France, spain unemployment rate.

Strong job protection is good for those who have work but not to those have not!
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Old 17.10.2010, 10:33
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Re: Oh, strike again s'il vous plait

Dunno how hard is this to understand, increasing retirement age means more unemployment for new generations, there's certain numbers of jobs available in the market, you keep people longer means more people missing their chance to get into the cycle at some point, it's like a full glass of water, you can't add more unless you empty some.

It's all about governments don't want to pay their dues, in addition people have the right to have some break in life when they retire not always working as slaves for the system.

Maybe pushing on employers to pay more salary and more retirement funds is the solution that is more convenient.
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Old 17.10.2010, 10:44
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Re: Oh, strike again s'il vous plait

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Just compare CH with France, spain unemployment rate.

Strong job protection is good for those who have work but not to those have not!
I do not agree: I was looking for work for quite some months during 2009 (fortunately while still being employed...). Situation was much worse than today and one would expect it to be much easier here as "they could easily fire you again if the situation gets worse" than abroad. Reality is that a hiring process costs a lot of money and you will not really earn your company much money in the first months - some say that depending on your job it takes up to 18 months to be 100% effective... so I can tell you that Swiss companies were in no way easier on the hiring side at all: If there is a risk that they would have to throw you out again within a year, they do not hire - everything else would be financially stupid.

Unemployment is low here and there are a lot of reasons for that. Switzerland attracts a lot of jobs from abroad as they have a very competitive tax system and employer friendly environment. I do not doubt at all that "if we want to, we can fire them all any given time" is an argument that makes bosses choose Switzerland as a location for an office - but I doubt in reality that this has any benefit for "normal people" at all... employees obviously have less security and unemployed do not find a job quicker - but it indirectly might raise the amount of total jobs in Switzerland.

I fully agree that the "strike culture" in other countries is plain stupid - only topped by "we abduct the boss" as they did a lot in 2009. On the other hand do I have the strong feeling that the UBS style "Yeah, we have to admit we made "some mistakes" sinking billions, but we do not feel to hold any former manager responsible for that" is much better. The same bottom line is: As long as we get tax money to fix it...
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Old 17.10.2010, 10:59
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Re: Oh, strike again s'il vous plait

There is also another aspect, people have worked hard and paid into a system setup over a period of generations to achieve a goal that now some poncy politician say´s "Njah! Njah! Can´t have it.
There has always been a feeling of "us" and "them." And I do not think it is advancing the human race by culling the very base that makes our civilization.
Cuts in education, a cheap fix, are going to bite us at some stage. There will be a rising uneducated underclass dependent on benefits and unable to find work.
Cuts in medicine, cuts in the police. Maybe we will see things like gated communities in England, were people with money can hide from the great unwashed.
Oh I forget we already do.
At the same time banks and insurances are making more money again paid for by people who are tightening their belts.
Capitalism has brought our society to amazing heights and so far it has been a boon to mankind, but capitalism is there for capitalism´s sake and now it is eating its children, Marx must be sitting on a stone laughing
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Old 17.10.2010, 11:05
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Re: Oh, strike again s'il vous plait

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Dunno how hard is this to understand, increasing retirement age means more unemployment for new generations, there's certain numbers of jobs available in the market, you keep people longer means more people missing their chance to get into the cycle at some point, it's like a full glass of water, you can't add more unless you empty some.
Pretty hard` for me to understand that at least. In a growing economy the number of jobs increases. In a depressed economy the number decreases. There is no finite number of jobs.
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Old 17.10.2010, 11:18
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Re: Oh, strike again s'il vous plait

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And let's not 4get these are who vote every time and bring those politicians into work and then not let them any reform if any,...
Politicians are voted in on a manifesto which equates to promises. Tale the Lib-Dems in the UK as a prime example. "We promise not to raise university fees." Now they are dismissing that out of hand and raising fees such that university education in the UK will no longer be selective of ability but will be selective on an individuals financial situation. Dispicable. They should be held legally accountable for their published promise.

If the French government were voted in on a manifesto that included rasiing the state pension age then fair enough. Of course, they weren't, they forgot to mention it.

Just like The Tories didn't mention removing Family Allowance from a sector of families in the UK.

I commend the French for taking the action they do (even supported them burning cheap lamb imports - from the UK - back in them days) and wish the Brits were as willing to engage the establishment. The only time they did, over Poll Tax, the public won and it lead to Thatcher being given her cards.
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Old 17.10.2010, 11:27
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Re: Oh, strike again s'il vous plait

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Could you explain that one? Are countries with a "hire and fire" system really more competitive?
If I look at the last years, some of the oh so great anglo-saxon model countries did not really master the crisis much better than some of the "pseudo-socialists"... actually did the labor protection method of "Kurzarbeit" (short shifts at a reduced income - supported by tax money -, but you at least keep your job during the crisis) in Germany perform aparently better than the fast laying-off in the US.
- Germans kept their job in manufacturing when it has a restricted, protected service industry

- Gov'mint debt as % of GBP was higher on the continent that Anglo countries before the crisis

- Labour market inflexibility means the young are shafted in Spain and France. Have you seen youth unemployment figures there?

- The continentals did not suffer so much arguably because they had less to fall too

In the end, no rich country came out well in this crisis. Smugness on the continent at the Anglo-Saxon "fall" does not equal socialist nirvana
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Old 19.10.2010, 10:12
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Re: Oh, strike again s'il vous plait

Yes, go on guys:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11570828
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Old 19.10.2010, 10:36
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Re: Oh, strike again s'il vous plait

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There is also another aspect, people have worked hard and paid into a system setup over a period of generations to achieve a goal that now some poncy politician say´s "Njah! Njah! Can´t have it.
Sorry, but this is the point: Over the same period of generations were the current changes in population predictable. Since the 1950s know the politicians that there will be less kids and more old people in the future. I must say that I do not know France that well, but in my home countries were typically not the politicians elected that promised to plan well for future generations, but the ones that paid their clientele directly. I remember too well the first elections after the German reunification: One guy - Oskar Lafontaine, a crazy lefty for most - said clearly: Sorry guys, but this will take decades to build up. Helmut Kohl talked about "I will see blooming landscapes in few years". Gues who won... so the people who demonstrate - especially the old ones - are nothing but responsible themselves. That is the downside of democracy: You cannot blame it so easily on "them", you are part of "them".
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Old 04.12.2010, 00:07
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Re: Oh, strike again s'il vous plait

Go on signiores:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11913878
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