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Old 19.10.2010, 08:33
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In the news this morning

I watched the news in disbelief this morning, building aircraft carriers without planes? That kind of ship's whole point of existence!
I have always said that today's carriers are the great dive sites of tomorrow, a ballistic Dong Feng 21will seriously degrade a carriers whole day. Or a mass suicide saturation attack by Iranian cigarette boats.
BADABOOOM!
Glug! Glug! Glug!
Strange isn't it? I had hoped commonsense would stop the building and deployment of carriers, now it seems that like the former Sowietunion England has just ran out of money trying to keep up with the Johnses.
Lesson from history: A de-stabled country with a basket-case economy can very easily slide into chaos.
As to the Eurofighter on carriers? The existing carriers were more or less tailored to the Harrier. The airframe of the Eurofighter was not designed for that kind of use, although the government wants the egg-laying-wool-milk-pig, retro-fitting the existing airframe for carrier use will for all practical purposes cancel the tactical advantage of the aircraft turning them into a flying Yugo.

Build the things, paint red lips on the bow, a smiley face and use em as cruise liners with a biiiiiig jogging track. Who knows you might even make a buck.
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Old 19.10.2010, 09:12
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Re: In the news this morning

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I watched the news in disbelief this morning, building aircraft carriers without planes?
You should read the rest of the news. There is no money left.
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Old 19.10.2010, 09:15
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Re: In the news this morning

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You should read the rest of the news. There is no money left.
It's not simply that. It's that the JSF won't be ready until much later than originally planned.

The 'strategic' plan does seem to leave us with a gap for a number of years though.
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Old 19.10.2010, 09:46
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Re: In the news this morning

from watching the news I gather that the penalties for pulling the plug on the new carriers was more or less the same cost as building them anyway, and of course you have the jobs aspect. thousands of people would have lost there jobs and the only winner would have been the ship builders.
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Old 19.10.2010, 09:58
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Re: In the news this morning

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from watching the news I gather that the penalties for pulling the plug on the new carriers was more or less the same cost as building them anyway, and of course you have the jobs aspect. thousands of people would have lost there jobs and the only winner would have been the ship builders.
I would say that you are spot on here.
These contracts were binding; however, I was surprised that the new governemnt terminated the school building contracts as they appeared to be signed sealed and delivered, though a total waste of money as well.

I think the UK has its own internal financial and social problems at the moment without sticking is nose and interfering with others in the world.

I am also surprised that it has actually increased its contributions/aid to other countries (including to China, India and Russia). I think the Uk government should think "Charity Begins At Home" in the ecomic crisis the Uk has.

2011 and 2012 I believe will be worse than 2010.
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Old 19.10.2010, 10:21
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Re: In the news this morning

You know that England is not an empire anymore when it considers to share its fleet with France: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...t-2093539.html

Only half a year ago, this was still considered "politically impossible":
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...lear-deterrent

Putting the Eurofighter on carriers seems also technically impossible to me - or at least something rather stupid to do. But hey - modern armies do a lot of not so smart sourcing decisions... the overall Eurofighter project was a big desaster, but nobody says it out loudly. Only in Germany it is quite obvious as the plane was originally called "Jaeger90", but it did not fly till 94, then "Eurofighter 2000" and when it finally came in 2006, it was just the "Eurofighter".
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Old 19.10.2010, 10:51
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Re: In the news this morning

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I would say that you are spot on here.
These contracts were binding; however, I was surprised that the new governemnt terminated the school building contracts as they appeared to be signed sealed and delivered, though a total waste of money as well.

I think the UK has its own internal financial and social problems at the moment without sticking is nose and interfering with others in the world.

I am also surprised that it has actually increased its contributions/aid to other countries (including to China, India and Russia). I think the Uk government should think "Charity Begins At Home" in the ecomic crisis the Uk has.

2011 and 2012 I believe will be worse than 2010.
You have to remember when the UK gives aid, it does not send money to the country where it could be spent on what the people need. The UK buys goods from "some" companies and sends the goods overseas. To be found in the "How to subsidies local companies without upsetting the EU" handbook.

The UK are not alone in the practice. They are also looking to sell parts for the machines that break down.

HTH
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Old 19.10.2010, 11:00
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Re: In the news this morning

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I watched the news in disbelief this morning, building aircraft carriers without planes? That kind of ship's whole point of existence!
IIRC Ark Royal's sister ship, HMS Illustrious, already operates as a helicopter-only vessel. I read some news reports that this too will be the new carriers "fate" until the JSF are ready
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Old 19.10.2010, 11:09
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Re: In the news this morning

maybe people carriers like boeings can be changed so that they can land on these things. let them land in the middle of the sea, and then back to shore. That would be nice for the people living close to airports not able to sleep cause of the noice....
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Old 19.10.2010, 11:14
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Re: In the news this morning

The most worrying news is that one of the future carriers might be mothballed or sold.

Two carriers have a much greater advantage than one . . . you could provide defence during maintenance/refit.

They should have decommissioned a couple more frigates instead.

There's a good article here, that came out before the review:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10...rygraph_leaks/

They've kind of put their head in the sand about JSF purchase too.
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Old 19.10.2010, 11:21
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Re: In the news this morning

Plus ça change

The more long-toothed will recall the famous exchange when the RAF's strike force was being "rationalised"...

Politician: "So what should we replace the Buccaneers with?"

RAF C-in-C: "More Buccaneers."
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Old 19.10.2010, 11:50
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Re: In the news this morning

Also in the news this morning. (you can tell I am bored at work) More Euro strife, the froggies, apart from paralyzing their country with strike has SNCF in up in arms stoking anti-German flames. The Bundesbahn has successfully sent a ICE train from Germany through the tunnel and on to St. Pancreas (could not resist that one) in London.
Aan zee Fränsh doo no like zis! Although they seem to forget that France sends the TGV into Germany on a regular timetable, time to get the popcorn out for this new German/French skirmish.
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Old 19.10.2010, 11:57
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Re: In the news this morning

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More Euro strife, the froggies, apart from paralyzing their country with strike has SNCF in up in arms stoking anti-German flames. The Bundesbahn has successfully sent a ICE train from Germany through the tunnel and on to St. Pancreas (could not resist that one) in London.
Aan zee Fränsh doo no like zis! Although they seem to forget that France sends the TGV into Germany on a regular timetable, time to get the popcorn out for this new German/French skirmish.
Yes, it's news like this that makes one right proud to be a fully paid-up European.
Cocktail, anyone?

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Old 19.10.2010, 11:58
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Re: In the news this morning

Ha! Ha! That is one apt LP cover
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Old 19.10.2010, 14:32
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Re: In the news this morning

HMS Ark Royal scrapped, Harrier Jets and Nimrods to go. Job losses estimated at 47,000!!! Think I'm going to stop watching the news
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Old 19.10.2010, 17:32
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Re: In the news this morning

There's a BBC analysis of the defence cuts and the UK's budget and forces compared to some other countries here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11567729

The UK does seem to get quite bad value for money compared to, say, France.
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Old 19.10.2010, 17:48
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Re: In the news this morning

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There's a BBC analysis of the defence cuts and the UK's budget and forces compared to some other countries here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11567729

The UK does seem to get quite bad value for money compared to, say, France.
Something not quite right with that BBC summary table; to wit, "17 of our Type 22/23 frigates are missing".
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Old 19.10.2010, 17:58
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Re: In the news this morning

I think this site fits in the thread: http://www.britishfail.com/

'Tis a shame it doesn't get more contribution...
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Old 19.10.2010, 17:59
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Re: In the news this morning

An the UK needs those carriers, jets & tanks to do what, exactly ?
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Old 19.10.2010, 18:04
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Re: In the news this morning

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An the UK needs those carriers, jets & tanks to do what, exactly ?
Probably to finally get all those asshole bankers who they despise so much.
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