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  #101  
Old 27.11.2010, 10:01
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

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Yeah but if a guy doesn't want, something will fail to raise, no?
i'm sure that's an argument the lawyer would use...
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  #102  
Old 27.11.2010, 10:37
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Most of the rapes are happening when the female and the male are drinking or only the female drinks (at her own choise or lured by the male, bt she can say no ans step away from him, can't she?) and the male just waits for this opportunity to take advantage of her. In that video, the girl is drunk and accepts going to an unknown male's place.
She may have her reasons to drink and get drunk, when you are drunk , you don't think clear (I don't know how is to be drunk as I don't drink but as I her this lame excuse so so many times ''I was drunk, I didn't know what I was doing''...) so if somebody says something to you, you accept it. She accepted to go with that guy and bad things happened.
If a rape takes place when the girl is just walking down the street or she just minds her own business, that is something terrible and I feel sorry for the girl.
But if she is drinking or if she is going to a male's place just for the ''one night stand'' or just for fun then this is her mistake.
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  #103  
Old 27.11.2010, 12:32
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

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Most of the rapes are happening when the female and the male are drinking or only the female drinks (at her own choise or lured by the male, bt she can say no ans step away from him, can't she?) and the male just waits for this opportunity to take advantage of her. In that video, the girl is drunk and accepts going to an unknown male's place.
She may have her reasons to drink and get drunk, when you are drunk , you don't think clear (I don't know how is to be drunk as I don't drink but as I her this lame excuse so so many times ''I was drunk, I didn't know what I was doing''...) so if somebody says something to you, you accept it. She accepted to go with that guy and bad things happened.
If a rape takes place when the girl is just walking down the street or she just minds her own business, that is something terrible and I feel sorry for the girl.
But if she is drinking or if she is going to a male's place just for the ''one night stand'' or just for fun then this is her mistake.
brave to give a not-so-PC answer!

i can understand inability to consent if someone is unconscious or so drunk as to be bordering unconsciousness, but if simply very drunk - then i think it's just a bad decision made under the influence and consent can be given.

however, i think many people, myself included, would not have sex with someone who was drunk as a matter of personal morals.

Last edited by Phil_MCR; 27.11.2010 at 13:10.
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  #104  
Old 17.10.2014, 09:23
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Should convicted rapist C.Evans be allowed to return to professional football after being released from prison this morning?
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  #105  
Old 17.10.2014, 09:48
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

why not? he' s gotta earn a living somehow
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  #106  
Old 17.10.2014, 09:50
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

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why not? he' s gotta earn a living somehow
My thoughts as well. Seems to be a public outcry about it in the UK.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 17.10.2014 at 18:26. Reason: fixed quoting
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  #107  
Old 17.10.2014, 09:51
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Seeing as you've asked the question, what's your view?

EDIT: Just seen your answer above.

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Should convicted rapist C.Evans be allowed to return to professional football after being released from prison this morning?
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  #108  
Old 17.10.2014, 09:53
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

not followed the story about him tbh, but wasn't this a bit of a blurred line case? girl was so drunk she didn't remember

ok just read up, yep, he's a bit of a scum bag, but still better to have a job then not
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  #109  
Old 17.10.2014, 10:34
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

The tricky part, regarding his mode of employment, is that footie is a relatively celebrated occupation. It's a job, but the employees are in the public eye, .., celebrities.

His returning to the field could be construed as tacit consentby the establishment, and subsequently could increase tolerance for violence against women in the general public, or at least the fan base, which is predominantly sexually active males. Could being italicized above.
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  #110  
Old 17.10.2014, 10:44
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

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The tricky part, regarding his mode of employment, is that footie is a relatively celebrated occupation. It's a job, but the employees are in the public eye, .., celebrities.

His returning to the field could be construed as tacit consentby the establishment, and subsequently could increase tolerance for violence against women in the general public, or at least the fan base, which is predominantly sexually active males. Could being italicized above.
Anyone who allows their child to use a footballer as a role model probably shouldn't have kids.

The guy did something incredibly stupid (as did his mate who wasn't charged) and served his sentence.

If you have complaints about the sentence being too lenient (2.5 years of 5 served) that's fine. If you don't think he's been rehabilitated properly, that's fine. These are points you need to take up with the Justice System, not Mr Evans.

As it stands, he should be encouraged back into work, especially given that his work doesn't put him near to anyone who might cause him to reoffend, if you believe he hasn't learnt his lesson.

Denying him work would be believing in a revenge based justice system, not a rehabilitative one. We don't want that really do we, we aren't Saudi Arabia.
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  #111  
Old 17.10.2014, 10:45
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

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The tricky part, regarding his mode of employment, is that footie is a relatively celebrated occupation. It's a job, but the employees are in the public eye, .., celebrities.

His returning to the field could be construed as tacit consentby the establishment, and subsequently could increase tolerance for violence against women in the general public, or at least the fan base, which is predominantly sexually active males. Could being italicized above.
It is established that if you are a celebrity accused of rape and found NOT-guilty your career is more damaged than if you are found guilty - witness the case of John Leslie.

If the public believe that the punishment for Rape is too low, they need to petition for greater penalties. A public witch hunt is not going to help anyone.
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  #112  
Old 17.10.2014, 10:57
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

If he wasn't a footballer then it probably wouldn't have even gone to trial anyway
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  #113  
Old 17.10.2014, 11:15
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

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If he wasn't a footballer then it probably wouldn't have even gone to trial anyway
If he'd have been a DJ, they'd have waited about 3 years until after his death to release the news. Don't want to get poor ratings.
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  #114  
Old 17.10.2014, 11:30
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

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If he'd have been a DJ, they'd have waited about 3 years until after his death to release the news. Don't want to get poor ratings.
But it was OK to commit rape in the 70s
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  #115  
Old 17.10.2014, 11:44
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

A bit of a tricky subject so I will tread carefully.

My only question is about the consistency of the guilty verdict.

Evans and McDonald both supposedly had sex with the same drunk girl on the same night, the girl who seemingly consented to sex at the time, granted she was in no fit state to consent so it's rape, but how come one person is charged and cleared (McDonald) and one is charged and convicted (Evans)?

I don't know the exact details so it's probable that the girl remembers consenting to McDonald but not his mate?
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  #116  
Old 17.10.2014, 11:53
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

as I read

She went to the hotel with one guy, he called his mate up who came over and had sex with her after she passed out, so one was consensual (sort of) and one was def not.
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  #117  
Old 17.10.2014, 12:05
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

In my dream world, a man who raped a woman would be naturally shunned by society and wouldn't even consider returning to a high profile job.

No one, in my perfect world, would even ask if such a thing would be ok.

In my make-believe world, there would be no discussion over the grey areas of the case. Was she too drunk? Did she consent once or twice?

But this is the real, mans world. So you guys knock yourselves out deciding how naughty this rapist was, and whether he should return to a priviledged position. I'm outta here.

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Should convicted rapist C.Evans be allowed to return to professional football after being released from prison this morning?
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  #118  
Old 17.10.2014, 12:25
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

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In my dream world, a man who raped a woman would be naturally shunned by society and wouldn't even consider returning to a high profile job.

No one, in my perfect world, would even ask if such a thing would be ok.
Does regret exist in your perfect world?
Does remorse exist in your perfect world?
Most importantly does forgiveness exist in your perfect world?

If forgiveness does not exist in your perfect world is it really perfect?

I think it's really easy to take the moral high ground in many situations in life. When someone makes a mistake they should indeed be appropriately punished where necessary but most importantly they should not be demonised for the rest of their lives. We all make mistakes, some more than others and we should forgive and forget. Life will be completely intolerable otherwise.
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  #119  
Old 17.10.2014, 12:27
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Lets step away from it being rape for a moment.

He committed a crime, was convicted by a court of law, and served the punishment that was handed down by the court. Society has therefore deemed that he has paid for his crime and that he should be allowed to return work in a profession in which he is qualified.

If you believe that the punishment was insufficient for the crime, and there are enough people who believe that to be the case, then change should be made to the criminal justice system. Further punishments are outside of scope.

The basis of the punishment is to remove the person from active society (punishment) and also to rehabilitate (where possible). If the assumption is that anyone found guilty can not be rehabilitated why is there any punishment less than death?

And so the question has to be flipped, in your perfect dream world, what would happen to anyone convicted of a crime? What punishment becomes acceptable? If rape demands a complete removal from society what about other crimes? Would cutting off a hand be acceptable after someone was convicted of theft? The first time? Second? Third?
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  #120  
Old 17.10.2014, 12:35
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Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

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So you guys knock yourselves out deciding how naughty this rapist was
I think that's already been decided by the court.

I question the value of posting details here, but can only assume it's intended to illustrate that like many crimes the seriousness can and does vary. And was taken into account when sentencing.

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and whether he should return to a priviledged position.
Privileged? In what way is going back to his previous job (if they'll have him - and isn't that the employer's decision?) a privilege? Would you have him condemned to be nothing more than a roadsweeper, or is there some other perfect-world job you have in mind for him?
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