Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #161  
Old 20.10.2014, 14:07
VFR on top's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Used to be Basel.
Posts: 1,115
Groaned at 34 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 2,482 Times in 922 Posts
VFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Quote:
View Post
I read an article that I can't find now with some american politician making the same point and he had thrown at him 'and how would you feel if it was your daughter that was raped?' to which he answered 'I'd want him hounded down and killed in the most brutal fashion possible, which is exactly why I should have no say in the punishment of the perpetrator'
.




This was based on an actual debate question during the 1988 Presidential election, between Michael Dukakis and the first Bush.
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 12.11.2014, 08:51
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,322
Groaned at 58 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,688 Times in 1,608 Posts
SOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

So, he is back training with Sheffield United since yesterday morning. Will a new contract be next?
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 12.11.2014, 09:03
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,690
Groaned at 281 Times in 232 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Quote:
View Post
So, he is back training with Sheffield United since yesterday morning. Will a new contract be next?
Does it really matter?

Or should he never be allowed to work again?
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 12.11.2014, 09:13
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,322
Groaned at 58 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,688 Times in 1,608 Posts
SOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

It does not bother me but it has caused TV presenter Charlie Webster to resign from her role as a Sheffield United patron in protest at the club.
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 12.11.2014, 09:21
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,690
Groaned at 281 Times in 232 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Quote:
View Post
It does not bother me but it has caused TV presenter Charlie Webster to resign from her role as a Sheffield United patron in protest at the club.
I heard that this week's Mail on Sunday will come with vouchers for a pitchfork and torch.

As for Webster resigning - that smacks more of self-promotion than anything else.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #166  
Old 12.11.2014, 10:14
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,086
Groaned at 486 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

maybe all the protestors and jumpers on the band wagon should club together to pay the guy a salary for the rest of his life so he doesn't have to work again and be in the public eye.

no, didn't think so
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 12.11.2014, 10:20
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: zürich
Posts: 3,191
Groaned at 105 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,948 Times in 1,620 Posts
i-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

I hate this thread. I get to see too much of what people really think. I'm shocked, but never mind, I'm just a woman and it was probably my fault.

Can't this thread just be closed? It's only point is to wind people up and set them against each other. It's totally useless.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank i-b-deborah for this useful post:
  #168  
Old 12.11.2014, 10:27
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,690
Groaned at 281 Times in 232 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Quote:
View Post
I hate this thread. I get to see too much of what people really think. I'm shocked, but never mind, I'm just a woman and it was probably my fault.

Can't this thread just be closed? It's only point is to wind people up and set them against each other. It's totally useless.
The point is that he was tried, convicted and served his sentence. That is the whole point of the criminal justice system. Just because he raped someone doesn't mean we can arbitarily say he shouldn't go back to his job just because he is in the "public eye" - although as a Sheffield United player there is a question mark over how public that eye actually is.

If this storm hadn't kicked off he would have quietly gone back to work and life would have carried on as normal.

Do not confuse supporting his right to return to work in the trade he is trained in with supporting rape.

Whether the sentence was adequate for the crime is another matter.
__________________
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #169  
Old 12.11.2014, 10:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: zürich
Posts: 3,191
Groaned at 105 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,948 Times in 1,620 Posts
i-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Whatever.
Reply With Quote
  #170  
Old 12.11.2014, 10:45
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,086
Groaned at 486 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

So what do you think should happen to him?
Reply With Quote
  #171  
Old 12.11.2014, 18:38
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,401
Groaned at 164 Times in 115 Posts
Thanked 4,710 Times in 1,816 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Quote:
View Post
I hate this thread. I get to see too much of what people really think. I'm shocked, but never mind, I'm just a woman and it was probably my fault.
It's better to see what people really think, than what you'd prefer them to be thinking surely.

Then again, I'm a man, and all men are Potential Rapists as has been said many times before.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Mikers for this useful post:
  #172  
Old 12.11.2014, 20:33
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,400
Groaned at 434 Times in 338 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Quote:
View Post
Then again, I'm a man, and all men are Potential Rapists as has been said many times before.
No.

Most of men are good and some rapist. Most of rapist are men.

All men aren't potential rapists. This is insulting for all the wonderful men in my life.

On this topic, I don't think the guy should be back under the spotlight of football stardom.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
  #173  
Old 13.11.2014, 09:20
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Quote:
View Post
On this topic, I don't think the guy should be back under the spotlight of football stardom.
He isn't, he plays for Sheffield United.

To put that into perspective, had he committed the offence over here, he would now be training with a club in the Promotion Liga (i.e. 3rd tier), see a club like this as an example team in it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Tuggen

I've been at parties with a bigger crowd.
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 13.11.2014, 09:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

What Ched Evans chooses to do now is none of your business. Who other people choose as their roll models is also none of your business.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #175  
Old 13.11.2014, 09:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Also, by way of comparison, the man below killed someone by drink driving and fled the scene of the accident, was sentenced to 6 years in jail and picked up a football contract on his release...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Hughes

There was some outcry at the time, but it was by and large accepted he did something stupid, paid the price, and should be free to continue his life/career on release.

Now, whether you think rape is a worse crime than manslaughter/death by dangerous driving is up to you. The Crown Prosecution Service thought that Lee Hughes' driving crime was more serious than Ched Evans' rape and therefore sentenced him to more time in jail.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #176  
Old 13.11.2014, 09:51
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Quote:
View Post
What Ched Evans chooses to do now is none of your business. Who other people choose as their roll models is also none of your business.
Even if this is someone's argument, how many people prior to this think that Ched Evans was a role model? He was a minor league footballer from a town in Wales with a population of 3500 - maybe some of those people were proud that he was a local lad done well, but Liverpool football club is only a stone throw away, so I'll wager more of them used Luis Suarez as a role model than ever did Ched Evans.
Reply With Quote
  #177  
Old 13.11.2014, 10:08
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,690
Groaned at 281 Times in 232 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

If anyone has a problem with him returning to work now then they should take it up with the Criminal Justice System.

Based on their guidelines he was sentenced based on the "single offence" tarif and not the "aggravated" tarif as would be expected considering the second person involved.

Wiki entry of the case
Reply With Quote
  #178  
Old 13.11.2014, 11:24
Leggat's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lenzburg
Posts: 234
Groaned at 8 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 252 Times in 116 Posts
Leggat has earned the respect of manyLeggat has earned the respect of manyLeggat has earned the respect of many
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Quote:
Even if this is someone's argument, how many people prior to this think that Ched Evans was a role model? He was a minor league footballer from a town in Wales with a population of 3500 - maybe some of those people were proud that he was a local lad done well, but Liverpool football club is only a stone throw away, so I'll wager more of them used Luis Suarez as a role model than ever did Ched Evans.
Here's a bit of legalese from across the pond:

Perception of Intimacy

It can be dead wrong, utterly misguided, but the perception exists within the beholder. By that, the individual[s] with said perception may align their behaviour, actions, decisions, policies, etc, based on what they perceive, accurate or not, of 3rd party interactions [Team Sheffield, its league organization, Ched Evans, and the survivor/victim]

This is all I was suggesting when I first posted in thread:

Quote:
View Post
The tricky part, regarding his mode of employment, is that footie is a relatively celebrated occupation. It's a job, but the employees are in the public eye, .., celebrities.

His returning to the field could be construed as tacit consent by the establishment, and subsequently could increase tolerance for violence against women in the general public, or at least the fan base, which is predominantly sexually active males. Could being italicized above.
I never used the word role model, as that would be an over simplification. I was considering the milieu, which includes the observer

-

Quote:
View Post
Based on their guidelines he was sentenced based on the "single offence" tarif and not the "aggravated" tarif as would be expected considering the second person involved.

Wiki entry of the case
Woah now. Aside from his successful appeal, shortening his 'rehabilitation' to 2 from 5 years, you're indicating that he may have been sentenced less severely than proscribed by the law? huh.

and look at the ripple effects, same wiki page:

Quote:
Naming of complainant on Twitter

North Wales Police investigated claims that the victim had been named and subjected to abuse on Twitter after the trial. Former Lord Chancellor, Lord Falconer of Thoroton, Holly Dustin, the director of End Violence Against Women, and Secretary of State for the Home Department Theresa May warned of the risks posed by discussing court cases on social media websites, and reiterated the need to protect the anonymity of complainants in cases concerning sexual offences.[2][28][29] As of 6 October 2012, North Wales Police had arrested 23 people on suspicion of offences relating to the naming of the victim.[30] Police also investigated a mistake by Sky News which showed the name of the complainant on television.[31]
Sheffield United academy and reserve team player Connor Brown was suspended by his club after allegedly making offensive comments about the victim on Twitter, although he did not give her name.[32][33]
On 5 November 2012, nine people who had named the victim on Twitter and Facebook were each told to pay her £624 after admitting the offence at Prestatyn magistrates' court. A tenth person pleaded not guilty,[34] but later changed her plea to guilty on 21 January 2013.[35]
In October 2014, after Evans' release from prison, it was reported that the complainant's new identity had illegally been revealed on Twitter and blogs again, having had to change her identity due to been named previously on social media.[36][37]

23 people arrested, 10 of them fined, for naming the complainant. The complainant has now changed her name, twice. Ched Evans? Back to the field of play-for-pay, along with the rest of the boys. Oh, I mean work. Sure, it's a cheap shot,I admit, and not a productive statement, so don't overreact to it.

As for Hughes, and manslaughter in general. It's very sad what happened to the folks in the Renault, but did Hughes willfully destroy his own vehicle, risk bodily harm, and intend to kill or injure the other party? It was an accident.

We have a crude phrase in the US; "I slipped and %&*ked her", or its variant, "She slipped and fell on my *%&@". These however are jokes, and it would take Mr. Bean calibre circumstances for Evans to have 'accidentally' copulated with the survivor/victim. He acted.

By this comparison, I consider manslaugher [if not abused by defense attornies] to be less a crime than rape. One is often an accident with mitigating factors, the other is an act.

TL;DR there is no tl;dr, lol

edit: I am probably done with this topic for a while, will try to entertain responses.
Reply With Quote
  #179  
Old 13.11.2014, 12:08
Ace1's Avatar
A modal singularity
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Morgins, VS (and Alsace)
Posts: 8,482
Groaned at 346 Times in 221 Posts
Thanked 14,175 Times in 6,211 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Quote:
View Post
By this comparison, I consider manslaugher [if not abused by defense attornies] to be less a crime than rape. One is often an accident with mitigating factors, the other is an act.
That may be true in the US and some other places, but in others, like the UK for example, manslaughter presupposes at the very least (for the"involuntary" definition) culpability for an act which would quite likely lead to death or serious injury, i.e. not an "accident". In most cases it's used for a deliberate killing when it's not possible to establish beyond doubt that it was a planned or premeditated attack.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Ace1 for this useful post:
  #180  
Old 13.11.2014, 12:09
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Where is your line? [Rape Awareness]

Quote:
View Post
23 people arrested, 10 of them fined, for naming the complainant. The complainant has now changed her name, twice. Ched Evans? Back to the field of play-for-pay, along with the rest of the boys. Oh, I mean work.
Not sure any sensible person can hold Ched Evans to account for what idiots post on twitter.

Quote:
View Post
As for Hughes, and manslaughter in general. It's very sad what happened to the folks in the Renault, but did Hughes willfully destroy his own vehicle, risk bodily harm, and intend to kill or injure the other party? It was an accident.
If you get into a car to drive whilst drunk, you are willfully putting people at a much greater risk than driving whilst sober.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
consensual sex or rape




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swiss Spatial Awareness raincookie Complaints corner 57 25.09.2012 14:56
Prostate Cancer Awareness grynch Family matters/health 11 13.09.2010 10:27
Mass rape epidemic coming soon to a country you live in... Canadian_dude International affairs/politics 7 18.11.2009 15:48
Awareness test Nev General off-topic 4 09.04.2008 13:08
Gang rape of 13 year old girl in Zurich? jamaicanRUM Daily life 63 23.11.2006 17:10


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0