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Old 14.09.2011, 13:20
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Stockholm to Zürich

Grüetzi mittenand!

There have probably been many hundred threads covering the topic of moving to CH but I'll start a new one...

I'm looking to completely relocate my life to Zürich.

I've been working for 4 years since I left university, I hold a degree from the university of stockholm (masters degree in computer science).

From what I understand and have seen, education is cherished a lot more in Switzerland compared to Sweden (where the taxess eat all your income), is this fact or fiction?

What kind of permits do I need in order to move to Switzerland?
What areas are the best for living? (By best I mean expensive and calm)
What's the deal with insurance?

Any information is appreciated!

Many thanks to you all!
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Old 14.09.2011, 13:28
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

Welcome, and start her: EU and non-EU Permits, Schengen, Naturalisation.

good luck
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Old 14.09.2011, 13:48
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

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Welcome, and start her: EU and non-EU Permits, Schengen, Naturalisation.

good luck
Good link! Thanks!

How are Swedes looked upon in Switzerland? Good or bad reputation?
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Old 14.09.2011, 14:01
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

My elderly neighbor told me I was "the good kind of foreigner". Maybe you can interpret that...
I think it is much more dependent on how you are as person than your nationality, unless you ask the SVP...

If you do decide to come I think you will like it though, most of us really do!
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Old 14.09.2011, 14:39
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

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My elderly neighbor told me I was "the good kind of foreigner". Maybe you can interpret that...
I think it is much more dependent on how you are as person than your nationality, unless you ask the SVP...

If you do decide to come I think you will like it though, most of us really do!
"the good king of foreigner" Well I think I understand how to interpret it

I really don't judge people by nationality, there are good and bad people from all over the world.

I have been in Zürich a couple of times, I must say I relly liked it!

I've been wanting to move from Sweden for some time now (if you ask yourself why you haven't experienced a long, cold, dark swedish winter), Switzerland is my prime candidate

I'm really not that into Swiss politics but I guess SVP is a type of SD?
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Old 14.09.2011, 16:09
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

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From what I understand and have seen, education is cherished a lot more in Switzerland compared to Sweden (where the taxess eat all your income), is this fact or fiction?
Errr...where'd you hear/see that? I would say that this is very far from the truth, wherever it came from. No place on earth reveres education as much or makes it as freely available as the Nordics do.
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Old 14.09.2011, 16:11
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

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I'm really not that into Swiss politics but I guess SVP is a type of SD?
SVP is equivalent to the SDP in Sweden or the 'TrueFinns' in Finland.
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Old 14.09.2011, 16:25
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Errr...where'd you hear/see that? I would say that this is very far from the truth, wherever it came from. No place on earth reveres education as much or makes it as freely available as the Nordics do.
Well...Making it freely available is not what I'm talking about. In that area I think the Nordics are probably very good, if not the best.

What I'm talking about is the ability to actually get paid.

In Sweden the taxes eat most of your income, now what I'm talking about is pretty tightly coupled with taxes (or socialism if you so want) not really with education.

If I told you that one of the best payed jobs in Sweden is garbage man, would you believe me?

Would you belive me if I told you a construction worker makes more than a mechanical engineer?
Would you belive me if I told you a electrician makes more than an architect?

And in thoose cases I'm talking about income before the taxes kick in.

Another example is this:
A woman I know has a phd and works for a bank, she makes about €5000 - after tax that's €3300.

Her husband makes €3000 - that's €2300 after tax. (Worth adding here is that he also has en education from a university).
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Old 14.09.2011, 17:29
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

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Well...Making it freely available is not what I'm talking about. In that area I think the Nordics are probably very good, if not the best.

What I'm talking about is the ability to actually get paid.

In Sweden the taxes eat most of your income, now what I'm talking about is pretty tightly coupled with taxes (or socialism if you so want) not really with education.

If I told you that one of the best payed jobs in Sweden is garbage man, would you believe me?

Would you belive me if I told you a construction worker makes more than a mechanical engineer?
Would you belive me if I told you a electrician makes more than an architect?

And in thoose cases I'm talking about income before the taxes kick in.

Another example is this:
A woman I know has a phd and works for a bank, she makes about €5000 - after tax that's €3300.

Her husband makes €3000 - that's €2300 after tax. (Worth adding here is that he also has en education from a university).
Yes, I'd believe you as I lived there for a number of years. I had two Master's degrees and, after taxes, my net pay was a pittance and the cost of living was pretty darn high. But, as we all know, nobody lives in the Nordics for the cheap drinks and low taxes....

But, if Switzerland is your top choice on the basis of low taxes, I'd urge you to consider your choice carefully as this isn't Sweden and I'd take a dark, cold winter day there over a day here most of the time due to certain things that you just can't quantify until you're here and unhappy. If you're a woman, married or not, I'd flat out say search elsewhere as it's nowhere near the comfort level of gender equality as the Nordics.
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Old 15.09.2011, 09:24
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

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Yes, I'd believe you as I lived there for a number of years. I had two Master's degrees and, after taxes, my net pay was a pittance and the cost of living was pretty darn high. But, as we all know, nobody lives in the Nordics for the cheap drinks and low taxes....

But, if Switzerland is your top choice on the basis of low taxes, I'd urge you to consider your choice carefully as this isn't Sweden and I'd take a dark, cold winter day there over a day here most of the time due to certain things that you just can't quantify until you're here and unhappy. If you're a woman, married or not, I'd flat out say search elsewhere as it's nowhere near the comfort level of gender equality as the Nordics.
No one lives in the nordics for the weather either

The way I see it no place on earth is perfect. No matter where you move you'll always have something to complain about.

Me wanting to leave Sweden hasn't relly that much to do with taxes as it has to do with quality of life. I have been to Switzerland on numerous occasions, and from what I can see it has a lot more "content" and more things to do.

I also managed to see that they have other values when it comes to some things.

I always have the option of moving back, but I feel like I need a chage, and why not follow my gut?

Overall if you compare the quality of life in Sweden to the life in Switzerland, would you say it's the same? Bad? Good?

Thank you in advance
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Old 15.09.2011, 09:44
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

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I also managed to see that they have other values when it comes to some things.

I always have the option of moving back, but I feel like I need a chage, and why not follow my gut?

Overall if you compare the quality of life in Sweden to the life in Switzerland, would you say it's the same? Bad? Good?

Thank you in advance
You must not be a natively born Swede

As for 'quality of life' goes...that's a loaded phrase that means something different to everyone so my evaluation would be much different than yours I would say but, overall, I find the Nordics much more enjoyable on many levels, even with the long dark winters. Switzerland sure would be a change....
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Old 15.09.2011, 10:24
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

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You must not be a natively born Swede

As for 'quality of life' goes...that's a loaded phrase that means something different to everyone so my evaluation would be much different than yours I would say but, overall, I find the Nordics much more enjoyable on many levels, even with the long dark winters. Switzerland sure would be a change....
Södermalm - born and raised

If I was married with children I would choose Sweden over any country I think...it's safe and most of the things are taken care of for you...

But at the moment I feel a change is what I need...the winter is comming and I don't know how cold it'll be this time (the two last winters have been very cold - up to minus 22c)...

Did you live in Stockholm when you were in Sweden?
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Old 15.09.2011, 10:53
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

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Did you live in Stockholm when you were in Sweden?
Stockholm and Helsinki - so I'm familiar with the cold, dark, long winters. Once it starts snowing, though, it gets better. I miss the sea most of all.

Like I say, this would be a change, but it's a bit like finding yourself in the middle of a Mad Men episode. If that sounds like fun to you, then you'll have a blast.
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Old 15.09.2011, 13:56
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

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Like I say, this would be a change, but it's a bit like finding yourself in the middle of a Mad Men episode.
so true.

Also, yes taxes are higher in Sweden, but they also pay for things that you have to pay for separately in Switzerland - for example health insurance and child care. But sure, try - weather is indeed nicer.
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Old 16.09.2011, 11:17
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

Thank you all for helpful and informative posts

One thing the Swedish system takes care of is the actual payment (if you so will) of insurance and so on...what kind of figures are we looking at in Switzerland (Zürich)?

What kind of other fees and obligations do you have during a month?
(Housing, transportation, electricity are pretty obvious)

What areas are good for living? Is there any point to having a car or is the public transporation (+ the occasional taxi ride, btw is taxi expensive?) enough?

All info is greatly appreciated
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Old 16.09.2011, 11:33
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

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Good link! Thanks!

How are Swedes looked upon in Switzerland? Good or bad reputation?
They are considered über-humans and basicly regarded as god-like creatures.

- Yes, your degree acutally means something here.
- You will get a B-permit (5 years) when you get a job, the company will help you with that.
- Luzern is the best place to live
- You pay for your own health insurance, around 200-300 chf/month.
- The company covers accidents.
- No point having a car, the train system is excellent (not even comparrable to SJ)
- Hard to say but a 3:rd of your net salary should cover rent. I pay CHF 1500 for a central renovated 3,5 room apt in LZ (in ZH it would be 2500 with a good location) The next big post is insurance, the rest is pretty much the same as in SWE.
- You will earn 2-3 times more and pay around 20% taxes so dont even worry about costs, just move here.
- You will enjoy longer and hotter summers, a very reasonable autumn and fun winters with skiing/snowboarding. Here, you actually kinda look forward to the winter unlike in Sweden.
- Quality of life is my main reason to stay here (the money doesnt hurt either but its not like im laughing on my way to the bank everyday, you get used to never being broke after a while)

Its a pretty sweet place to relocate to and overall feels like an upgrade from the allready orderly and well functioned country of Sweden. The only thing i miss is family/friends and certain things as Kalles Kaviar (but they have that at IKEA).
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Allthough stated as an absolute truth, 90% of what I post is pure speculation.

Last edited by swedishguy; 16.09.2011 at 11:51. Reason: thought of more stuff.
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Old 16.09.2011, 12:09
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

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Thank you all for helpful and informative posts

One thing the Swedish system takes care of is the actual payment (if you so will) of insurance and so on...what kind of figures are we looking at in Switzerland (Zürich)?

What kind of other fees and obligations do you have during a month?
(Housing, transportation, electricity are pretty obvious)

What areas are good for living? Is there any point to having a car or is the public transporation (+ the occasional taxi ride, btw is taxi expensive?) enough?

All info is greatly appreciated
Cars will cost roughtly the same as in Sweden except that you will most likely need to have a parking spot or a garage for it (depending on where you live). If you have had your Swedish car for more than 6 months prior to moving here you can bring it tax free. After that you have 12 months to register it locally. Garages and parking places cost typically between 100-200CHF/month.

-Health insurance will cost you roughly 200-400 CHF/month from the day you arrive: http://en.comparis.ch/
-Rents in Zurich will be roughly 50%-150% more than Stockholm: http://www.homegate.ch/en?a=default&l=default
-To get some idea on general food prices, you can check out: http://www.coopathome.ch/ or http://www.leshop.ch/leshop/Main.do?...OP_SUPERMARKET
-Insurance costs (car, home, travel) will be something similar to Sweden, propably about 50% more: http://en.comparis.ch/
-Tv-permit will cost you another CHF 450/year.
-Public transportation will cost something similar to Stockholm depending on where you live and how many zones you have on your ticket: http://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html
-And here is a link to calculating your taxes: http://www.google.com/search?q=tax+c...or+switzerland
-Eating out will cost you 50%-100% more.
-Taxi prices will be similar to Stockholm.

And last but not least, if you would like to eat beef, forget about it because it's too expensive. Bring your own reindeer meat instead ;-)
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Old 16.09.2011, 15:18
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

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They are considered über-humans and basicly regarded as god-like creatures.

- Yes, your degree acutally means something here.
- You will get a B-permit (5 years) when you get a job, the company will help you with that.
- Luzern is the best place to live
- You pay for your own health insurance, around 200-300 chf/month.
- The company covers accidents.
- No point having a car, the train system is excellent (not even comparrable to SJ)
- Hard to say but a 3:rd of your net salary should cover rent. I pay CHF 1500 for a central renovated 3,5 room apt in LZ (in ZH it would be 2500 with a good location) The next big post is insurance, the rest is pretty much the same as in SWE.
- You will earn 2-3 times more and pay around 20% taxes so dont even worry about costs, just move here.
- You will enjoy longer and hotter summers, a very reasonable autumn and fun winters with skiing/snowboarding. Here, you actually kinda look forward to the winter unlike in Sweden.
- Quality of life is my main reason to stay here (the money doesnt hurt either but its not like im laughing on my way to the bank everyday, you get used to never being broke after a while)

Its a pretty sweet place to relocate to and overall feels like an upgrade from the allready orderly and well functioned country of Sweden. The only thing i miss is family/friends and certain things as Kalles Kaviar (but they have that at IKEA).
I can do without Kalles, lösgodis, and marabou, just as long as the winters are somewhat mild, there actually is an autumn, and education actually means something!

Well I can tell we have the same mentality, I'll have to look in to Luzern but is seems the area i prefer to work in (Banking/IT) is mostly based in Zürich! But I have heard good things about Luzern as well

Thanks for a good post!
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Old 16.09.2011, 15:23
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

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Cars will cost roughtly the same as in Sweden except that you will most likely need to have a parking spot or a garage for it (depending on where you live). If you have had your Swedish car for more than 6 months prior to moving here you can bring it tax free. After that you have 12 months to register it locally. Garages and parking places cost typically between 100-200CHF/month.

-Health insurance will cost you roughly 200-400 CHF/month from the day you arrive: http://en.comparis.ch/
-Rents in Zurich will be roughly 50%-150% more than Stockholm: http://www.homegate.ch/en?a=default&l=default
-To get some idea on general food prices, you can check out: http://www.coopathome.ch/ or http://www.leshop.ch/leshop/Main.do?...OP_SUPERMARKET
-Insurance costs (car, home, travel) will be something similar to Sweden, propably about 50% more: http://en.comparis.ch/
-Tv-permit will cost you another CHF 450/year.
-Public transportation will cost something similar to Stockholm depending on where you live and how many zones you have on your ticket: http://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html
-And here is a link to calculating your taxes: http://www.google.com/search?q=tax+c...or+switzerland
-Eating out will cost you 50%-100% more.
-Taxi prices will be similar to Stockholm.

And last but not least, if you would like to eat beef, forget about it because it's too expensive. Bring your own reindeer meat instead ;-)
If possible I like to avoid having a car, comming from a country where cars are seen as a luxury, and living in the city centre made me used to not having a car.

My impression of Switzerland seems pretty accurate, things generally cost more but you actually get some value for it.

All the facts and figures help me a lot so thanks once again I'll probably not move to CH during this year, but my motivation just keeps growing!

Thank you all for making this into a great thread!
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Old 16.09.2011, 15:50
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Re: Stockholm to Zürich

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No one lives in the nordics for the weather either

The way I see it no place on earth is perfect. No matter where you move you'll always have something to complain about.

Me wanting to leave Sweden hasn't relly that much to do with taxes as it has to do with quality of life. I have been to Switzerland on numerous occasions, and from what I can see it has a lot more "content" and more things to do.

I also managed to see that they have other values when it comes to some things.

I always have the option of moving back, but I feel like I need a chage, and why not follow my gut?

Overall if you compare the quality of life in Sweden to the life in Switzerland, would you say it's the same? Bad? Good?

Thank you in advance
Moved from sweden more than 10 years ago...

Quality of life - in general:
Single or without children = Switzerland
Married with children = Sweden


Better in Switzerland:
- You have more responsibility of your life
- The Coffee - omfg!
- Transportation system
- Can buy alcohol on Sundays!
- Recreation activities (skiing, MTB, etc)
- "Middle of europe"
- The Alps
- You can deduct your CSN loan


Better in Sweden:
- The Humour (non-existing here, unless you think "banana-peel" humour is fun)
- The Music (non-existing here)
- The Food (inget julbord )
- Solidarity (you will often hear in Switzerland: "isch nöt mein Problem" or "Selber Schuld!")
- Self-objectivity (we swedes can actually listen to critics without bursting into tears or lash out)
- Less nationalistic (the SD of Switzerland - SVP gets 30% and is biggest party - it's horrible)
- People are not so tense as in Switzerland, people in Switzerland tend to get stressed very fast...
- Water - the lakes and the ocean...
- Paternity leave, I got 1 day paid here in Switzerland...no I'm not joking...

...but if you're IT engineer in Zürich and is single, you will have a blast!
I know I had!
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