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  #41  
Old 27.04.2017, 19:31
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

And anybody here have the wonderful feeling you get, when the Swiss (even though they supposedly have a "treaty" with your country of where you spent most of your career) wants you to declare your retirement income, even though that retirement income (in my case) was generated for 30 years of working in the US? The US will NOT tax my retirement income from CH, yet CH requires me to declare my retirement income after 30 years of working in the US. So much for equitable treaties, huh? And so what might this mean to the US couple in Vail? Just a taste of the "Swiss Rules".
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Old 27.04.2017, 19:37
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

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So I really "question" the comment about not needing Health Insurance.
I think the point was that the UK health system paid the balance - I guess the Swiss have arrangements over different things with different countries.
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  #43  
Old 27.04.2017, 19:37
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

Even if you are from the EU, you get taxed on your pension income- of course.
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  #44  
Old 27.04.2017, 19:41
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

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Thanks Salad Days for "not letting this point getaway". I am from the US, been here 8 years, retired in 2011. Paramount to me staying here was enough income, HEALTH INSURANCE, (they don't want you to "suck from the social system to pay for your health"), and of course, for me, that I have not been sucking off the social system too much. Said another way, they want to prevent you being just another social system drain, which I understand completely. So I really "question" the comment about not needing Health Insurance. I suggest you check again. I have the email address of the Immigration office (Migrationsamt) here in Oerlikon if that would help.
The rules, as is so often the case here, are different for EU/ETFA nationals and non-EU. As an American you need to have Swiss health insurance.

If you're an EU/ETFA national and only get a pension from one of those countries then there is an exemption you can apply for.

"2. Resident persons

Persons with a Swiss domicile and/or sojourn in Switzerland of more than three months are subject to compulsory health insurance in Switzerland. Also subject to compulsory health insurance in Switzerland are persons with a shorter stay, if they do not have an adequate insurance cover and persons who are working in Switzerland. The non-working, dependent family members of these persons also have to be insured in Switzerland. The insurance obligation does not only start after three months. It starts with the event which triggers the obligation (e.g. taking up employment).

There are, however, certain categories of persons which can be exempted from compulsory health insurance or are not subject to Swiss legislation.

Who is not subject to compulsory health insurance in Switzerland?
Persons who work exclusively in an EU/EFTA state
Persons who draw a pension from an EU/EFTA state but do not draw a pension from Switzerland (form E 121 or portable document S1 issued by the health insurance abroad).
Persons who draw unemployment benefits from an EU/EFTA state (portable document U2)"

https://www.kvg.org/en/overview-_con...0E15B9D1D6E172

Obviously the OP isn't an EU/ETFA national who meets any of the above requirements so they will need to have Swiss health insurance.

As for your pension, well the US doesn't consider Swiss pension fund contributions as exempt from their taxation either. And I assume, once you start drawing your Swiss pension, would also tax that as part of your worldwide income.
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  #45  
Old 27.04.2017, 19:58
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

I wasn't familiar with Vail, Colorado, so I googled it - it looks like it's a small mountain town with a huge ski resort. So basically similar to a place like Davos or so in Switzerland, sort of.

The obvious question running through my mind would be "why?"

Moving basically to a place that looks like the place I am moving from, with a language disadvantage (travel German does not equal Swiss German), might potentially be a lot more expensive, and so forth.

Definitely the move won't give them a tax advantage, since they still have to pay the difference to Uncle Sam, unless they are gazillionaire AND have EU or Swiss passports already, and plan to ditch the blue book as soon as they land in CH. If that is not the case, no real advantages and more complex paperwork filing.

Maybe it's because of health reasons, e.g. having conditions that require significant out of pocket cash payments in the US vs. getting good care with the basic Swiss insurance, and so forth.

Maybe they see this as their "home base" to travel around Europe, but then again, why pick the most expensive country?

Or maybe they're one of those posters that we periodically see on the EF "The US is going to the dogs, I like freedom, Switzerland is a libertarian paradise..." (NOT). I wouldn't bet on this since they've been to the country several times and should know, although visiting and living in a place are completely different things. Things one worries about when living in a place (like your neighbors dictating how many inches of grass you should cut and which day of the week) are no concern at all when on holiday.

We don't know. Food for thought.

Vail looks nice, btw. Maybe next time I am in that part of the country I'll take a little detour and drive there, it's only a 2-hour drive from Denver!
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  #46  
Old 27.04.2017, 20:45
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

I doubt having health conditions would get them a permit to live here, even if they do arrange Swiss health insurance. Anyway, I also don't think they'd meet the "close ties to Switzerland" criteria mentioned earlier - a few holiday visits aren't going to be enough.
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  #47  
Old 27.04.2017, 21:05
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

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I doubt having health conditions would get them a permit to live here, even if they do arrange Swiss health insurance. Anyway, I also don't think they'd meet the "close ties to Switzerland" criteria mentioned earlier - a few holiday visits aren't going to be enough.
Hehe, what if they were indeed EU passport-holders gazillionaires? They'd probably be sitting in Vail and laughing at the EF by now!
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  #48  
Old 27.04.2017, 21:08
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

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I wasn't familiar with Vail, Colorado, so I googled it - it looks like it's a small mountain town with a huge ski resort. So basically similar to a place like Davos or so in Switzerland, sort of.
But with orderly queues for the ski lifts.


(By the way, has anyone been appointed to replace Amb Suzi? )
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Old 27.04.2017, 21:38
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

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(By the way, has anyone been appointed to replace Amb Suzi? )
It looks like it's still vacant as of today. Otherwise, I haven't heard anything.
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Old 27.04.2017, 21:43
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

Sorry, long post coming...

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(By the way, has anyone been appointed to replace Amb Suzi? )
You're joking, right? He's barely nominated anyone for anything

http://www.afsa.org/appointments-donald-j-trump and https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...cker/database/

Now back to OP.

I'm from CO and I'm quite familiar with Vail. Swiss alpine resorts are a decent comparison, especially when it comes to cost.

That said, I think there are many factors that go into what makes somewhere a "good" place to retire. I'll try to approach OP's question from that standpoint, keeping in mind my own CO experience.

Key considerations I think about when looking at retirement options, and how I think it would work in CH for a CO transplant from Vail:

1. How far will my money go? Obviously the biggest issue for anyone. Depends on how rich you are and where you want to settle. Even someone from Vail that drops a decent amount here on vacation might be surprised at how expensive things can be on a daily basis - particularly if one is accustomed to eating out regularly. As others have said, the dual taxation can be a headache.

2. Weather. It can be really gray and dreary here, for months on end. CO weather is much nicer overall imo, but at least along the Front Range it's more dry and brown in terms of scenery.

3. Access to healthcare. Swiss healthcare is great, but it can get frustrating if you don't speak the local language to a decent level. Many doctors and nurses speak English, but not all do and almost all paperwork is in German, French or Italian. As we get older, we will probably need more access to healthcare and need to discuss detailed/complicated medical stuff. I'm not sure "tourist German" will be enough for OP.

4. Access to long-term care facilities, if needed. Aside from regular and emergency healthcare, what if one or both need long-term care due to illness or disability? I'd want to know I could afford such care and that I could speak the language of the caregivers.

5. Access to activities my spouse and I like. OP has been here on vacation and likes at least the touristy aspects. What about daily life? Is there enough here to keep them entertained (and not broke)?

6. Social network. There are dozens of threads about how hard it is to make friends in Switzerland when you're young. What about when you're "old" and retired and people are much more set in their ways? People tend to be friends with folks that have similar life experiences and viewpoints. How will that work for OP? I'm guessing there aren't thousands of American retirees here in nice, established communities like one might find in Florida or Arizona. At the same time, how practical would it be for friends and loved ones to come visit, both in terms of time and money?

7. Back-up plan. Regardless of where one plans to retire, life has a way of happening when we're making plans. What is the backup plan if Switzerland doesn't work out for some reason?

Just some food for thought.
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  #51  
Old 27.04.2017, 21:48
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

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Hehe, what if they were indeed EU passport-holders gazillionaires? They'd probably be sitting in Vail and laughing at the EF by now!
Wouldn't matter much if they were. It may make getting the permit easier, but they'd still need Swiss health insurance (no EU/ETFA pension), still have FATCA and its related problems, the language, etc.
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  #52  
Old 27.04.2017, 22:09
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

I got a fancy all this yak yak about costs and health insurance and tax enhancement is pure chicken shit to these people, they really don't care nor do they need to care.

They've been here, "several times" they know what it's like and what it costs and not only do they keep coming back, they now want to move here !
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  #53  
Old 27.04.2017, 22:28
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

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I got a fancy all this yak yak about costs and health insurance and tax enhancement is pure chicken shit to these people, they really don't care nor do they need to care.

They've been here, "several times" they know what it's like and what it costs and not only do they keep coming back, they now want to move here !
Disagree. They know holiday costs, they don't know health insurance though if they have the gazillions some of you seem to think they have that isn't a problem. But FATCA and US taxation will be and they certainly won't know the cost of that until they move out of the US.
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Old 27.04.2017, 23:18
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

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Disagree. They know holiday costs, they don't know health insurance though if they have the gazillions some of you seem to think they have that isn't a problem. But FATCA and US taxation will be and they certainly won't know the cost of that until they move out of the US.
Funny, all this debate and the OP hasn't been back to tell/dispute a thing. Either he's scared to death or laughing at all the presumptions.

Last edited by Oldhand; 27.04.2017 at 23:43.
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Old 27.04.2017, 23:45
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

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Funny, all this debate and the OP hasn't been back to tell/dispute a thing. Either he's scared to death or laughing at all the presumpsions.
Have you noticed how annoyingly often that happens?

Benefit of the doubt for the moment; op posted his one and only post at silly o'clock this morning, so he just might be back in a few hours.
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Old 28.04.2017, 01:08
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

Indeed I am back, and quite overwhelmed by all the responses

Many, many thanks. Lots of food for thought.

I should have mentioned that I have both US and German passports, which should help with some of the issues raised in the responses. My wife, however, has only a US passport. It doesn't sound like that would be an issue, but if someone knows differently, please let me know.

I've already researched the assets, income, banking and tax issues, and although I can't be certain, I think we can deal with them. Our total taxes would increase, but I don't think the amount would be unbearable. I've also looked at Germany and Austria, and I think the additional taxes in both places would be much higher.

Our plan would be to rent for at least a couple of years, so any mortgage issues can be deferred.

It would be wonderful if one or more of you would be willing to meet with us when we visit, and/or refer us to any English speaking retiree groups you know about.

And thanks again! What a great read!
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Old 28.04.2017, 01:30
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

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I should have mentioned that I have both US and German passports, which should help with some of the issues raised in the responses.
Your German citizenship is a complete game changer. No need to be a gazillionaire anymore (although it always helps), as an EU citizen you have the right to take up residence here as long as you can afford your morning Gipfeli without relying on the state. (OK, it will take a bit more, but the bar is far, far lower than for a non-EU retiree.)


In the future, it's always best to mention dual citizenship when you ask questions, as much depends on whether you are EU or non-EU. We could have saved ourselves three pages of speculation... but then again, rampant speculation is what makes EF entertaining.

Good luck with the move.
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Old 28.04.2017, 08:23
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

Yes, that will make things easier. As we don't know which area you're thinking of moving to advice on being able to meet with others would be vague at best, but there are usually different activities listed down in the Social Events section of the forum so you could check there and also look on the internet for meetup groups.

Do bear in mind that the Swiss government is currently looking at changing the conditions for getting and keeping all types of Swiss permits with a view to encouraging more foreigners to integrate so things like learning a Swiss language to a certain proficiency may be required to keep any permit you obtain. There's a thread on the subject here:

https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-...t-holders.html

It's all under discussion at present, but if you don't feel you could meet what's proposed then it may be worth looking elsewhere.

Still your first step is to contact the migration office of the canton you plan to move to and see what they have to say regarding your financial situation.
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Old 28.04.2017, 12:11
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

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I should have mentioned that I have both US and German passports, which should help with some of the issues raised in the responses. My wife, however, has only a US passport. It doesn't sound like that would be an issue, but if someone knows differently, please let me know.
You're right, should be no issue. What hasn't been mentioned: A resident EU/EFTA citizen has the right to what's called Familiennachzug, the right to have immediate family come along and take residency even though she "only" has US citizenship.
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Old 28.04.2017, 13:01
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Re: What's it like to retire in Switzerland?

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I wasn't familiar with Vail, Colorado, so I googled it - it looks like it's a small mountain town with a huge ski resort. So basically similar to a place like Davos or so in Switzerland, sort of.

The obvious question running through my mind would be "why?"

Moving basically to a place that looks like the place I am moving from, with a language disadvantage (travel German does not equal Swiss German), might potentially be a lot more expensive, and so forth.
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3. Access to healthcare. Swiss healthcare is great, but it can get frustrating if you don't speak the local language to a decent level. Many doctors and nurses speak English, but not all do and almost all paperwork is in German, French or Italian. As we get older, we will probably need more access to healthcare and need to discuss detailed/complicated medical stuff. I'm not sure "tourist German" will be enough for OP.

4. Access to long-term care facilities, if needed. Aside from regular and emergency healthcare, what if one or both need long-term care due to illness or disability? I'd want to know I could afford such care and that I could speak the language of the caregivers.

5. Access to activities my spouse and I like. OP has been here on vacation and likes at least the touristy aspects. What about daily life? Is there enough here to keep them entertained (and not broke)?
To answer BokerTov, I think 3Wishes* missed an important "access": Access to Europe. For me one of the beauties of living in Geneva is that the airport is nextdoor and you can fly to pretty much anywhere in Europe in an hour or so. In that time, where can you get to from Vail, CO? Retirement isn't all about sitting in a bathchair swaddled in a blanket looking at the view with a whiff of urine in the air - or I bloody hope it isn't.

*I realize 3W wasn't directly answering BT, but when I saw the list of accesses I couldn't help quoting them.
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