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  #41  
Old 22.06.2017, 08:35
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

Since the topic has been raised, a point of pedantry re: qualifications for dog sitters:

Articles 101 and 102 of the Animal Welfare law (TSchV, SR 455.1) regulate what is needed to care for dogs in exchange for pay.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...796/index.html

The law states that to care for up to 5 dogs, a dog carer needs the same qualifications as an owner. Prior to 1 Jan 2016, that did indeed mean a dog sitter or dog walker needed to fulfill education requirements, the SKN.

But now that the SKN for owners has been abolished, by extension that means that there no longer is a required education course for sitters/carers who take in up to 5 dogs.

Here's a quick summary of what is needed in order to care for a dog in exchange for pay, from canton ZH but the rules are federal and so apply everywhere:

http://www.veta.zh.ch/internet/gesun...ar2017-def.pdf

So:

Up to 5 dogs, no special education is needed anymore.
6-19 dogs: Carers must have the FBA and a permit from the Veterinäramt
20+ dogs - Tierpfleger diploma, permit from the Veterinäramt


---

My own 5Rp: Just as I think abolishing the SKN was a terrible move, with significant adverse effect on our dogs, I also wish the education requirement for casual sitters had not gone by the wayside. As I interview sitters, I am shocked at how very clueless, how poorly prepared to take on responsibility, many are. The SKN was far from perfect, but it was a step in the right direction. Now we have taken a huge collective step backawards.

/soapbox, back to discussing the OP's move...


ETA:

Do be prepared for sticker shock when you see dog care prices, though. If your dogs can be kenneled or can live in a group with other dogs (Hort) that option usually runs ca 25-100 per dog per day. With three dogs you might be better off finding someone who is willing to move into your house while you are away. This usually runs 200+ per day, but nonetheless somewhat easier to find than someone who will take all three in to their home. But do be prepared for a long exhaustive search - there are not many qualified, experienced, responsible dog sitters out there who can responsibly care for multiple dogs at one time.

Last edited by meloncollie; 23.06.2017 at 14:58.
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  #42  
Old 22.06.2017, 09:39
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

I don't think it has been emphasized that dogs need rabies vaccinations about 2 weeks before they travel. Your UK vet can inform you. As Meloncollie says, the laws on dog keeping were mostly scrapped on 1. January 2016, but you still need all your dogs to be ID chipped, registered on ANIS with a dog passport, and have documented vaccinations.

Before you arrive you need to complete the relevant Swiss customs form, and include all your belongings, dogs, cars etc. as personal tax-free pocessions. Anything not mentioned on the form will be taxed when you bring it over later.

You can trawl the Forum for information, or you can buy the book,
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Living-Work...in+Switzerland
just make sure you are buying the latest version.
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  #43  
Old 22.06.2017, 10:07
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

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I don't think it has been emphasized that dogs need rabies vaccinations about 2 weeks before they travel. Your UK vet can inform you. As Meloncollie says, the laws on dog keeping were mostly scrapped on 1. January 2016, but you still need all your dogs to be ID chipped, registered on ANIS with a dog passport, and have documented vaccinations.
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The dogs are all chipped and have passports. I will have to prepare the rabies shots and I had hoped that visiting the vet would help me run through the other formalities asap.
The OP seems to have that one covered. He has obviously been doing his homework in preparation for this move.
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  #44  
Old 22.06.2017, 12:52
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

Your housing budget should allow you to find a nice home in the Biel/Bienne region. Rents here are nothing like in the expensive cities of Switzerland. I checked on comparis.ch and found hat if I entered 'Pieterlen' (a village close-by) +20km I received much more hits than if I did the same search with 'Biel'.

Among others a house in Ipsach is listed which is a very nice village if you are not looking to put kids into French-speaking schools. Another one in Magglingen/Macolin up on hill. The hill part would bother me because I like to commute by bike but would work for someone with dogs and two cars. There are more.

Möösli and Mühlefeld would be my preferred quarters in Biel but then I don't like having to drive.

Good luck with your search.
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  #45  
Old 22.06.2017, 12:57
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

Just avoid living in Canton Neuchâtel, their taxes are among the highest.
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Old 22.06.2017, 14:50
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

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Just avoid living in Canton Neuchâtel, their taxes are among the highest.
Does medical insurance in Canton Neuchâtel differ greatly from Biel/Bienne?
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  #47  
Old 23.06.2017, 12:09
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

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Your first problem is finding somewhere to do that maintenance.

Actually your first problem might be finding somewhere to do any work required as the result of an inspection triggered by importing a car. Or were you planning on buying an older car here that's already "in" the Swiss system?

The hefty depreciation you see here is the result of the costs of running an older car.
Yes, I have been lucky to have a flat garden where I can do the work. But any flat surface will do, all I need is a ramp to lift the front of the car for most basic stuff. But you are right... that is not a given. I do not like working on the public road/spaces, and I am sure it would not be appreciated by neighbours.

I was planning on bringing my youngest, cleanest car (only 14 years old
). For number two my old banger would not stand a chance. I would buy a second hand Swiss car to avoid the hassle to get it through MFK. Also having a RHD in the continent is ok, but car parks, security checkpoints and overtaking are a pain.

For depreciation, yes, I meant the depreciation of new/newer cars. I avoid that driving older stuff.

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Well, shouldn't be too difficult for your relocation agent. I've found 4 within 20km of Bienne for under 3k a month on immoscout24.ch.
Thanks, yes I hope we will be fine. But the fact Switzerland is small is quite well reflected in the number '4'

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Yes, they do have access to properties not listed, this was the case when we moved here. They'll show you say 20 properties (well, I picked a random number...you really have to be very picky for that) out of which at least 5 are not listed on interwebs . My advice is to ask them to discreetly inquire about the neighbourhood to see if you'd fit in, well, they usually do that themselves but you never know.

Hehe, I know. I was joking around the idea that we might not be aware of the many and "hidden" Swiss rules and regulations...just think of it - even a dog sitter should be someone properly certified here.
Anyhow, I wish you a smooth transition. Enjoy.

Btw, the insurance depends on the driver (and the risks associated with the demographic group he is allotted to) in a much larger proportion than on the vehicle itself.
Thanks for confirming that there will be properties 'off the radar'. I am sure we will be fine.

My apologies for having missed your point about car maintenance A large proportion of people on car forums really seem to believe that car maintenance is voodoo and can only be done by a badged up overpriced magician

About Swiss car insurance, can anyone drive your car like in Belgium, or is it named drivers only?

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yes, if it is a simple car and you change the oil or the spark plugs, or the filters, or the brakes.

But most cars now have electronic diagnostics that need checking, the tappets are hydraulic, the clutch is non existent for you and me, etc etc,

On a modern car, self maintenance is a myth, you can do the basics but not the essential really, unless you are exceptionally well equipped*
I fully agree here, that is why I avoid any car younger than 10 years. Before you can change many parts it seems to want to 'phone home' for permission before you can start the engine! However, luckily the most frequent stuff is still quite basic (oil, filters, mechanical steering parts, brakes, etc). However resetting the little blinky light on the dash is a different matter.

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greenmount's mention of certifications for a dog sitter applies here. The Swiss really do like the idea of you using professionally qualified people, and if you look at it from an Economics point of view, it is an encouragement to utilise the Division of Labour
In general I agree with both using professional qualified people (but only if they really are) and supporting the local economy. However, I like working on my own cars
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  #48  
Old 23.06.2017, 12:31
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

Well, I was specially looking for a detached house, pets allowed and at least 3 rooms within 20km of Bienne. Obviously if you change those parameters you'll get a different result. Of those 4 all were 6.5 room places so should be able to find something smaller within your budget.
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  #49  
Old 23.06.2017, 12:42
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

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Do be prepared for sticker shock when you see dog care prices, though. If your dogs can be kenneled or can live in a group with other dogs (Host) that option usually runs, ca 25-100 per dog per day. With three dogs you might be better off finding someone who is willing to move into your house while you are away - this usually runs 200+ per day, but nonetheless somewhat easier to find than someone who will take all three in to their home. But do be prepared for a long exhaustive search - there are not many qualified, experienced, responsible dog sitters out there who can responsibly care for multiple dogs at one time.
Thank you for the input on dog care. Wow, they are some serious charges. When I googled, there were a couple of kennels in the area, but I had not anticipated such prices. Any recommended kennels bye the way? I am willing to drive quite far if they are good.

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I don't think it has been emphasized that dogs need rabies vaccinations about 2 weeks before they travel. Your UK vet can inform you. As Meloncollie says, the laws on dog keeping were mostly scrapped on 1. January 2016, but you still need all your dogs to be ID chipped, registered on ANIS with a dog passport, and have documented vaccinations.

Before you arrive you need to complete the relevant Swiss customs form, and include all your belongings, dogs, cars etc. as personal tax-free pocessions. Anything not mentioned on the form will be taxed when you bring it over later.
I give my dogs rabies shots as standard because the risk of having to move for my work was always there. Interesting about the abolishment of some of the dog keeping laws, but I assume I still need to register my dog at my local registry office? I plan on discussing it with the local vet.

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Your housing budget should allow you to find a nice home in the Biel/Bienne region. Rents here are nothing like in the expensive cities of Switzerland.

Good luck with your search.
Thanks for the help. Yes, it seems that we will be fine, it was just the relatively low search result numbers that had me worried.

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Just avoid living in Canton Neuchâtel, their taxes are among the highest.
When I used some of the online income calculators, the income tax varied quite a lot across Switzerland, but all the neighbouring Cantons (Jura, Neuchâtel, Bern, etc) seemed to have pretty similar values, which were amongst the highest of the country. Are there other costs that I need to consider that can vary related to the Canton (car related, waste disposal, public transport, schooling, etc)?

As far as I can tell your communal tax (similar to council tax in the uk) is part of your income tax.
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Old 23.06.2017, 12:45
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

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Well, I was specially looking for a detached house, pets allowed and at least 3 rooms within 20km of Bienne. Obviously if you change those parameters you'll get a different result. Of those 4 all were 6.5 room places so should be able to find something smaller within your budget.
Thank you. Yes, it seems that the 'pets allowed' is clearly not typical. However, the properties exist, that is what matters!
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Old 23.06.2017, 13:03
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

If you see a place you like you can always ask. Sometimes it works, though not sure it would with 3 dogs. Still worth a try if you really like somewhere.

Sorry but no, commune tax is not part of your income tax if your salary is over 120k. You'll be filling in a tax return each year and paying your tax once you receive the invoices from Federal, cantonal and commune. You can either pay them in one lump sum or spread out in monthly segments. If your salary was under 120k then you'd be taxed at source for these.
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Old 23.06.2017, 13:11
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

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When I used some of the online income calculators, the income tax varied quite a lot across Switzerland, but all the neighbouring Cantons (Jura, Neuchâtel, Bern, etc) seemed to have pretty similar values, which were amongst the highest of the country. Are there other costs that I need to consider that can vary related to the Canton (car related, waste disposal, public transport, schooling, etc)?

As far as I can tell your communal tax (similar to council tax in the uk) is part of your income tax.
I wouldn't worry too much about the taxes. Between those three cantons you won't see much difference in your disposable income if any at all. What you gain in some things you lose in others.
Fribourg canton would probably be cheaper to live but then you're moving further away from work.
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Old 23.06.2017, 13:58
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

Below is a link to the government tax calculator, if you can play with it you can see the tax liabilty (federal, cantonal, local) varies a lot between Swiss villages, but if you earn less than Fr 120'000 then you will pay the official cantonal average rate,

http://www.estv2.admin.ch/d/dienstle...uerrechner.htm

The health insurance varies with where you live too,

https://www.comparis.ch/krankenkasse.../input/wohnort

all the companies offer private insurance, but if you want the cheaper UK type GP practise cover then choose HMO or Telmed policy.

Have you read the book yet?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-li...in+Switzerland
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Old 23.06.2017, 17:28
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

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If you see a place you like you can always ask. Sometimes it works, though not sure it would with 3 dogs. Still worth a try if you really like somewhere.
Good point about asking about dogs. However, I assume it would be wise to put this in the rental contract though. I would not want to get kicked out on a whim...

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I wouldn't worry too much about the taxes. Between those three cantons you won't see much difference in your disposable income if any at all. What you gain in some things you lose in others.
Fribourg canton would probably be cheaper to live but then you're moving further away from work.
I considered Fribourg because it is also very pretty, but the drive is just beyond what I find comfortable.

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all the companies offer private insurance, but if you want the cheaper UK type GP practise cover then choose HMO or Telmed policy.

Have you read the book yet?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-li...in+Switzerland
I had wondered whether to opt for 'normal' or 'via house doctor' options whilst I like flexibility, in general going to see your GP first does not seem like a bad idea, unless it causes delay... I suspect access to GP's will be much more efficient in CH.

I have come across this book several times, but to be honest have not bought it... yet. I guess it will save time (and needless questions on this forum).
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Old 23.06.2017, 17:40
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

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I considered Fribourg because it is also very pretty, but the drive is just beyond what I find comfortable.
Just in case you at some point might again consider Fribourg, be aware that FR is a BSL canton. Check to see if your breeds, or mixes thereof, are affected. (Did you mention your dogs' breeds? Apologies if I missed that...)

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I suspect access to GP's will be much more efficient in CH.
Much depends on where you live, especially for those out in the boondocks.

It took me a couple of years before I found a GP taking on new patients. And then I took me a couple of years more before I found a competent GP willing to take on new patients. Ditto specialists, especially a gynecologist, especially if you need to consult in something other than the local language.

If you go for a Hausarzt model, first make sure that the doctor you wish to see is willing to take on new patients.

Please note that lack of access tends to be a localized problem, you might not run into this. But make checking the local situation a priority as you decide on insurance models.
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Old 23.06.2017, 17:54
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

Yes, as I said in my first post, don't assume, check and double check and if possible get it written into the rental contract.

Even for places that say pets allowed, check for your particular circumstances. A small dog may be fine, 3 Mastiffs (as an example) may not - you get my point. Always, always check whichever property you're interested in renting. The last thing you want to do is sign a rental agreement and then find your dogs aren't welcome. You could end up paying several months' rent until you reach the next contractual termination date of the lease.
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Old 23.06.2017, 17:55
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

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...Much depends on where you live, especially for those out in the boondocks...
^This. We're not quite in the boondocks but the GP offerings near us are limited. We opted to pay more so we could go to whatever doc we want, without needing a referral first. The specialists send reports back to the GP anyway.

We usually contact the GP for a recommendation on which specialist to see, because if we've found if you name-drop your GP to one of his buddies from medical school, you get an appointment much sooner than if you'd randomly chosen the specialist from the phone book.
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Old 23.06.2017, 17:55
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Re: Is 120k CHF salary enough to live comfortably?

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Just in case you at some point might again consider Fribourg, be aware that FR is a BSL canton. Check to see if your breeds, or mixes thereof, are affected. (Did you mention your dogs' breeds? Apologies if I missed that...)

Much depends on where you live, especially for those out in the boondocks.

It took me a couple of years before I found a GP taking on new patients. And then I took me a couple of years more before I found a competent GP willing to take on new patients. Ditto specialists, especially a gynecologist, especially if you need to consult in something other than the local language.

If you go for a Hausarzt model, first make sure that the doctor you wish to see is willing to take on new patients.

Please note that lack of access tends to be a localized problem, you might not run into this. But make checking the local situation a priority as you decide on insurance models.
This is excellent help thank you.

I have a great dane and two labrador mixes (but mainly labrador).

For the health insurance, that is critical information. If I have any doubt, I should stick to the normal one for the first year until I an confident with my local options. That leaves my gamble on how healthy we feel this year regarding the franchise
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