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Old 27.12.2019, 17:32
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Moving to Switzerland :)

Hi,

I am 44-year-old, father of two daughters - 10 and 5 year old. I am a Bulgarian citizen, born in Sydney, working in IT. From February 2020 I will be working in Rotkreuz, Canton Zug. My wife, two daughters and my mom will coma along in the summer.

I am moving to Switzerland as I like my job opportunity, the country and its location, the education system, quality of life. I think all this will allow me to have a much better work-life balance in comparison to my life as an IT free lancer, spend more time for myself and my family, allow my kids to get a broader view of the world, allow our family to be together more in Switzerland and on vacations.

Now, I have until summer to make up my mind where for my family to live. I have a list of criteria that I will investigate upon both on my own and also by posting different threads in this forum. Here is the criteria:

1. Total of rent+tax+medical insurance. As far as I understand higher tax can be compensated by lower rent, especially in my case where I will need an apartment of 3-4 bedrooms, thus making the difference in rent bigger.
2. Proximity to Rotkreuz - max 1 hour in one direction door-todoor commute
3. Climate - want to live in a place which is not cloudy or foggy throught winter months. Sun is with the biggest priority from all the geographical aspects.
4. School system. Of utmost importance is that my 10-year-old who will finish 4th grate with an IB diploma gets in a school that would allow her to use her full potential and go to a Gymnasium. This is also valid for my 5-year-old but she has time for this. I am reading about Curriculum 21 (lerhplan 21) and integrated secondary school and cantons that would implement both (like Luzern) will have priority.
5. International working environment. This is important so that my wife has a chance of finding a job with her English skills. Hopefully in 2 years her German will be good enough to find a job in English/Germa, but still this is important to have a chance for just and English job. She is a lawyer, specialised in recent years in mediation, conflict resolution and empathy.
6. Relative proximity to Zurich, where the Bulgarian weekend school is located

I will start looking at cantons first (not sure if municipalities within cantons are very different) and then go from there to city level. Currently I am considering maunly cantons Luzern, Zug, Zurich, may be also Zchwyz, Aargau.

My decision will be So far I consider canton

I think this is it If I am forgetting anything or just any thought, will be happy to here from you!
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  #2  
Old 27.12.2019, 18:32
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

Welcome, and what a lovely, informative first post!
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Old 27.12.2019, 19:02
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

Welcome to the forum and soon to Switzerland.

You'll definitely need to look for a 4 bedroom with all those people - one for you and wife, one each for the daughters and one for mom.
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Old 27.12.2019, 22:25
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Welcome, and what a lovely, informative first post!
Thank you

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Welcome to the forum and soon to Switzerland.

You'll definitely need to look for a 4 bedroom with all those people - one for you and wife, one each for the daughters and one for mom.
Thank you

For the kids it is possible we will get a single bigger room,depends on availability and prices

By the way, is there an agency or a person who provides consulting services for expats, so that I provide all the criteria / questions I have and they come back with possible locations that could suit me?

Last edited by 3Wishes; 29.12.2019 at 10:20. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 27.12.2019, 23:53
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

Welcome! Wishing you a very good start in this beautiful country :-)
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Old 28.12.2019, 18:15
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

Thank you, Astrea
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Old 29.12.2019, 05:13
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

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By the way, is there an agency or a person who provides consulting services for expats, so that I provide all the criteria / questions I have and they come back with possible locations that could suit me?
Have a look at these threads:
https://www.englishforum.ch/search2....location+agent
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Old 29.12.2019, 13:06
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

1. Difference in rent (in my experience) between Kt. ZG and ZH probably not all that great when it comes to 3/4 bedrooms

2. / 3. Rotkreuz is on a main trainline between Luzern and Zurich. Thalwil for example - takes 25 mins there direct to Rotkreuz. Weatherwise, probably more sun in Thalwil, ZG is greyed / fogged over quite a bit in Winter.


4. How is your 10 year olds German? Integration will not be easy for her without the language.

5. Go more direction Zurich, less direction Luzern.
6. Eh, see above.

Looks like you have a lot of considerations, good luck with it.
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Old 29.12.2019, 13:34
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

Does your mother have a permit?

Tom
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Old 29.12.2019, 13:48
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

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4. How is your 10 year olds German? Integration will not be easy for her without the language.
See, however, the many threads on this forum about private, fee-paying, international schools vs. local, government, free schools.

Here's a thread about the integration class, to catch up in the local language.
https://www.englishforum.ch/family-m...ion-class.html
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Old 29.12.2019, 14:28
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

Not easy for a 10 year old but doable. My daughter came at that age and is now in Gymi. She repeated grade 4 upon arrival, to give her time to adjust for language. She tried for gymi after grade 8, but the school did not recommend her, she did not pass the exam. After grade 9 she did get the recommendation for gymi from the school and is now in her first year of Gymi and doing very well, even passing German. She is a little older than the others in her class, but the extra maturity is only helping. Just remember, that not getting into gymi (if that should happen) is not a disaster, there are many other ways to a degree in Switzerland and the apprenticeship programs are excellent. Your daughter needs to want to go to Gymi or she will have a hard time staying in the program, it really is very demanding.

OP, hope you find the perfect place to live, don't know the area that well, so can't help in that departement.
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Old 29.12.2019, 18:30
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

Getting out of Rotkreuz in the evening with a car is the pits.
Recommend finding something to rent in Rotkreuz itself.
Wait a year and then decide from there once you learn the territory and get advice from your new Roche colleagues.
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Old 02.01.2020, 14:44
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

Thank you, doropfiz! I forgot to mention in my thread (which I will do in a moment) that I have relocation package as part of my job. So I actually might use consulting services in relation to the specific questions on which canton/place to live, specifically: rent+tax+health insurance expenses, climate, school system/specific schools
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Old 02.01.2020, 15:19
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1. Difference in rent (in my experience) between Kt. ZG and ZH probably not all that great when it comes to 3/4 bedrooms

2. / 3. Rotkreuz is on a main trainline between Luzern and Zurich. Thalwil for example - takes 25 mins there direct to Rotkreuz. Weatherwise, probably more sun in Thalwil, ZG is greyed / fogged over quite a bit in Winter.


4. How is your 10 year olds German? Integration will not be easy for her without the language.

5. Go more direction Zurich, less direction Luzern.
6. Eh, see above.

Looks like you have a lot of considerations, good luck with it.
Thanks, the_flag_is_a_big_plus

At the moment I am considering any place in canton Zug, Luzern and Thalwil or nearby to it town. With regards to climate, my wife's future work and location I am also leaning towards Thalwil. Need to check more the school system in Zurich (integrated secondary schools and lerhplan 21) and the schools in Thalwil to make my mind on it.

For my 10-year-old - she has studied German for 4 years but mostly speaking, songs stuff like that. She will start to study it harder in the next 8-9 months. Hopefully she will reach a level, where after a year in Swiss school she could feel comfortable. Not sure yet how this will go though

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Does your mother have a permit?

Tom
Hi Tom,

Have no idea about this, did not think this might be an issue... She would be a pensioner from an EU country, hopefully it will not be a problem for her to get the necessary permit and then live with us.

I would need to check this but not sure where. Probably when I arrive in February

Last edited by roegner; 02.01.2020 at 15:27. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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Old 02.01.2020, 15:30
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

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Have no idea about this, did not think this might be an issue... She would be a pensioner from an EU country, hopefully it will not be a problem for her to get the necessary permit and then live with us.
From a German website:

"Aufenthaltsbedingungen / Visum
Eine Aufenthaltsbewilligung erhalten deutsche Rentner in der Schweiz nur, wenn sie über ausreichende finanzielle Mittel verfügen. Als regelmäßige Einnahmen für den Lebensabend müssen EU-Bürger eine Jahresrente von umgerechnet mindestens 50.000 Schweizer Franken oder entsprechendes Vermögen nachweisen. "

She needs to be able to show sufficient income (50k CHF per annum) or sufficient wealth. This page is from 2014 so the amount may be higher now. Better check.
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Old 02.01.2020, 15:38
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See, however, the many threads on this forum about private, fee-paying, international schools vs. local, government, free schools.

Here's a thread about the integration class, to catch up in the local language.
https://www.englishforum.ch/family-m...ion-class.html
Thank you, doropfiz

My kids will definitely be attending a a local Swiss school. We can afford a private school for them in Bulgaria, but in Switzerland it is a completely different story. Plus, currently we plan to stay for some time so it will be not a problem for them to go to a local school.

Regarding integration classes - thanks, the thread was helpful! I will investigate further. As a final option - as part of the relocation package I get integration classes for my kids if they are not provided in the school/city. But will look into this topic in more detail along the way.

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Not easy for a 10 year old but doable. My daughter came at that age and is now in Gymi. She repeated grade 4 upon arrival, to give her time to adjust for language. She tried for gymi after grade 8, but the school did not recommend her, she did not pass the exam. After grade 9 she did get the recommendation for gymi from the school and is now in her first year of Gymi and doing very well, even passing German. She is a little older than the others in her class, but the extra maturity is only helping. Just remember, that not getting into gymi (if that should happen) is not a disaster, there are many other ways to a degree in Switzerland and the apprenticeship programs are excellent. Your daughter needs to want to go to Gymi or she will have a hard time staying in the program, it really is very demanding.

OP, hope you find the perfect place to live, don't know the area that well, so can't help in that departement.
Thanks, swisscanmom

My daughter is an international IB school now and she does really well. She likes to study and she like to have good results. That is why for now she has the potential for Gymi, we just want to make sure German is not an obstacle (and other cultural apsects). She will be 11-year-old and 5th grade in September 2020. As she started at 7 I think she will already be a year older so would not like her to lose one more year - 2 year difference seems to much to me in this age. Also, as far as I understand, she will have up to mid 6th grade to get the Gymi recommendation, am I correct? So provided she knows German by then good enough I think it is not impossible.

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From a German website:

"Aufenthaltsbedingungen / Visum
Eine Aufenthaltsbewilligung erhalten deutsche Rentner in der Schweiz nur, wenn sie über ausreichende finanzielle Mittel verfügen. Als regelmäßige Einnahmen für den Lebensabend müssen EU-Bürger eine Jahresrente von umgerechnet mindestens 50.000 Schweizer Franken oder entsprechendes Vermögen nachweisen. "

She needs to be able to show sufficient income (50k CHF per annum) or sufficient wealth. This page is from 2014 so the amount may be higher now. Better check.
Thank you, Roegner! I will check. But in this case, she will be accompanying me as she is getting too old to stay on her own, so I am pretty sure it is a special case that would evaluate also my possibility to support her. But I need to check it when I arrive in Rotkreuz, for sure. Also, may be every canton will have there own rules on this....

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Getting out of Rotkreuz in the evening with a car is the pits.
Recommend finding something to rent in Rotkreuz itself.
Wait a year and then decide from there once you learn the territory and get advice from your new Roche colleagues.
Thank robBob! I would definitely choose a place which would allow me to commute by train, should I decide to be outside of Rotkreuz or the canton of Zug.

I will try to find the place where we would like to stay long term - I have three months for that after my arrival. I would do the possible to avoid my kids changing schools, towns after a year.

Last edited by roegner; 02.01.2020 at 15:54. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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Old 02.01.2020, 15:53
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

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Thank you, Roegner! I will check. But in this case, she will be accompanying me as she is getting too old to stay on her own, so I am pretty sure it is a special case that would evaluate also my possibility to support her. But I need to check it when I arrive in Rotkreuz, for sure. Also, may be every canton will have there own rules on this....
Best to check that out now. And no, the rules are the same in all Kantons.
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Old 02.01.2020, 15:56
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

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Hi,

I am 44-year-old, father of two daughters - 10 and 5 year old. I am a Bulgarian citizen, born in Sydney, working in IT. From February 2020 I will be working in Rotkreuz, Canton Zug. My wife, two daughters and my mom will coma along in the summer.

I am moving to Switzerland as I like my job opportunity, the country and its location, the education system, quality of life. I think all this will allow me to have a much better work-life balance in comparison to my life as an IT free lancer, spend more time for myself and my family, allow my kids to get a broader view of the world, allow our family to be together more in Switzerland and on vacations.

Now, I have until summer to make up my mind where for my family to live. I have a list of criteria that I will investigate upon both on my own and also by posting different threads in this forum. Here is the criteria:

1. Total of rent+tax+medical insurance. As far as I understand higher tax can be compensated by lower rent, especially in my case where I will need an apartment of 3-4 bedrooms, thus making the difference in rent bigger.
2. Proximity to Rotkreuz - max 1 hour in one direction door-todoor commute
3. Climate - want to live in a place which is not cloudy or foggy throught winter months. Sun is with the biggest priority from all the geographical aspects.
4. School system. Of utmost importance is that my 10-year-old who will finish 4th grate with an IB diploma gets in a school that would allow her to use her full potential and go to a Gymnasium. This is also valid for my 5-year-old but she has time for this. I am reading about Curriculum 21 (lerhplan 21) and integrated secondary school and cantons that would implement both (like Luzern) will have priority.
5. International working environment. This is important so that my wife has a chance of finding a job with her English skills. Hopefully in 2 years her German will be good enough to find a job in English/Germa, but still this is important to have a chance for just and English job. She is a lawyer, specialised in recent years in mediation, conflict resolution and empathy.
6. Relative proximity to Zurich, where the Bulgarian weekend school is located

I will start looking at cantons first (not sure if municipalities within cantons are very different) and then go from there to city level. Currently I am considering maunly cantons Luzern, Zug, Zurich, may be also Zchwyz, Aargau.

My decision will be So far I consider canton

I think this is it If I am forgetting anything or just any thought, will be happy to here from you!
Sun and no fog in winter. Forget it unless you want to live in the mountains. Winter lowland=fog

Here the grafik for Zurich. Where you dont see any symbol it simply means total blackout!

moving-switzerland-unbenannt.png

Last edited by omtatsat; 02.01.2020 at 16:14.
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Old 02.01.2020, 16:27
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

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Best to check that out now. And no, the rules are the same in all Kantons.
Hi Roegner, Thanks a lot!

I checked - it is fine:
1) I am a citizen of EU-28 EFTA countries:
https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...r_schweiz.html

2) Based on that, here is the fact sheet valid for me:
https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...actsheets.html

3) The pdf Family reunification (https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...nnachzug-e.pdf) states:

According to the Agreement on the Free Movement of Persons (AFMP) between Switzerland and the EU, citizens of EU/EFTA1 who have been granted the right to stay in Switzerland may extend this right to certain family members.
EU/EFTA nationals holding a Swiss residence permit or short-stay permit for EU/EFTA citizens (employees, self-employed persons, economically inactive persons, service providers) may bring:
- their spouse as well as their own children or their spouse's children (who are under the age of 21 or receive support);
- their own parents or their spouse's parents who receive support (this option is not available for students).
This provision applies regardless of the nationality of these family members.
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Old 02.01.2020, 16:33
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Re: Moving to Switzerland :)

Simply live in Zug. 20 mins to Zurich with train. And 8 min to Rotkreuz. Even after 2 years German your wife would be unlikely to find work in a German speaking environment. In an English environment yes but even then very difficult
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