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-   -   Moving/Retiring to CH (https://www.englishforum.ch/introductions/296732-moving-retiring-ch.html)

Christine 13.02.2020 19:52

Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Hello Everyone,

I'm Christine, a US citizen, married for 20 years to my husband who has dual US/Swiss citizenship. We are making the exciting/nerve-wracking decision to relocate to CH in the coming year. The US is not a place I recognize much anymore, honestly, but that is just part of it. We also have an autistic son who is about to turn 18 and Switzerland is, from what we can tell, a much more inclusive environment (My sister in law has Downs Syndrome). We want him to have a rich and full life and where we live in the US things are rather bleak in that regard. It is depressing, really. All of our relatives live in Switzerland. We have a flat where we can stay for cheap temporarily (and maybe longer), and my youngest son is considering possible careers/university (he's 15) and we would like him to feel able to attend school in Switzerland. All that being said, My husband is 62 so we are at an age where the transition has a lot of ramifications. He works in an international field and we are fairly sure he could find work and when he retires in 5 years we will have both US and Swiss pensions to draw on. I've been reading through the archived messages on this forum and am so thankful for all the information available!! Specifically I'd love to connect with anyone on this forum who has relocated to Switzerland from the US with a disabled dependent -- this is our biggest motivator and concern. We have been spending 3 months/year in Switzerland for the past 5 years so I feel like I have a healthy respect for the challenges but we also love it and I'm excited to make this change.

doropfiz 13.02.2020 20:01

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Welcome to the Forum. That's an interesting life-change you're considering.

Just checking: are your sons both [registered as] Swiss, too, like your husband?

Who speaks which languages?

MusicChick 13.02.2020 20:03

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Hello Christine and welcome to our community.

You have placed your post in the correct forum, it is well written, too. I have approved your post while thinking good luck with the move and most of all, don't move before your hb has a job here, really. At 62 it may not be so easy. Will you be moving for a job? Things might be challenging for your children at their age if they do not speak the local language...and in terms of inclusion, it really depends.

Cheers, on behalf of admin.

Christine 13.02.2020 20:05

Thank you. Yes, my children all are dual citizens. I'm the only one who is not a US citizen. However I am studying German now and hope to start the application this summer when we are there. My children all speak German but not fluently. They are also hard at work now and I hope they will improve quickly.

Thank you. We are hopeful about the job prospects and he already has some interviews lined up. But he can also work remotely at his current job if he needs to, which he does now for 3 mos/year. And yes, I agree that it might be challenging for our youngest, especially.

Guest 13.02.2020 20:12

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3148021)

Cheers, on behalf of the moderating team.

FTFY


Hi there Christine. Welcome to the forum, I hope you find the info you need.

It is possible you might not find CH as inclusive as you hope and Swiss hirings get notoriously difficult as one ages.

Christine 13.02.2020 20:15

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
That is, not a *Swiss* citizen.

roegner 13.02.2020 20:20

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christine (Post 3148027)
That is, not a *Swiss* citizen.

No worries, we got that :)

Welcome, hope it all works out for you!

MusicChick 13.02.2020 20:21

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christine (Post 3148024)
Thank you. We are hopeful about the job prospects and he already has some interviews lined up. But he can also work remotely at his current job if he needs to, which he does now for 3 mos/year. And yes, I agree that it might be challenging for our youngest, especially.

Yes, I would not move with a 15yr old here. After they finish high school it would be easier. But then local uni is out of question if they aren't fluent in German. On the other hand, sounds like you, guys, have relatives here, so probably run everything by them and see?

doropfiz 13.02.2020 20:22

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
You say you'll have both US and Swiss pensions, at least in 5 years' time, so that sounds good.

I'm sure you'll surmise that most of the people moving here are younger than you and your husband, and so the answers tend to be different. I'm not sure whether you have qualifications and whether you yourself intend to look for work. Even so, you might find it informative to have a read through Kiwi2Swiss's thread of a few years ago.
Although their initial set-up is different from yours, she and her husband were also, as they say here, "no longer 20 [years old]". They were in Switzerland for a few years and then decided to return to NZ.

https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...fications.html

Christine 13.02.2020 20:23

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Thank you! I guess it is the same all over -- No place is as inclusive as we hope it will be and getting older sucks :-) But we are ever optimistic!!

Belgianmum 13.02.2020 20:26

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3148032)
Yes, I would not move with a 15yr old here. After they finish high school it would be easier. But then local uni is out of question if they aren't fluent in German. On the other hand, sounds like you, guys, have relatives here, so probably run everything by them and see?

Why do they need to be fluent in German to go to a local uni?

There are universities in the other linguistic regions of Switzerland too.

MusicChick 13.02.2020 20:33

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Belgianmum (Post 3148036)
Why do they need to be fluent in German to go to a local uni?

There are universities in the other linguistic regions of Switzerland too.

They are learning German already if you read OP. If they restart IT/Fr from scratch now, won't make it easier. Most unies need C1 for entry.

Christine 13.02.2020 20:33

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Thank you for the link. I will certainly read this. I am a full-time caregiver for my son so I would not be looking for employment.

Belgianmum 13.02.2020 20:37

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3148041)
They are learning German already if you read OP. If they restart IT/Fr from scratch now, won't make it easier. Most unies need C1 for entry.

It doesn’t say they’re learning German anywhere in the OP nor in the post you quoted nor in their location.:rolleyes:

I only saw the German reference in the other post after making my comment. That doesn’t necessarily mean that they don’t already speak French or Italian already.

I do agree that 15 is a very difficult age to come here and would only really be feasible if he went to an International school.

MusicChick 13.02.2020 20:46

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christine (Post 3148042)
Thank you for the link. I will certainly read this. I am a full-time caregiver for my son so I would not be looking for employment.

It may be difficult to have an inclusion as a goal when your autistic adult child is not speaking German. If you can, or your hubby, contact local societies and groups for autists and brainstorm with them. I will not give you our Francophone contacts but somebody will come up with something. Churches here are very inclusive, usually, full of networking and knowlegeable contacts. I also hope that your hb is a high earner, since a couple of grown dependants on one salary and a special needs child might be tough. I like your spirit, ever optimist!

Christine 13.02.2020 20:52

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
I've been reading and trying to envision what this would mean for my 15 year old. He has a somewhat decent fluency in German and has a few friends his age. Is it something about the particular school demands at that age? He is now in a specialized math and engineering program at school. Would that not translate to something similar in the Swiss system? I've been reading on the education forum but it isn't that clear.

Belgianmum 13.02.2020 20:56

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christine (Post 3148053)
I've been reading and trying to envision what this would mean for my 15 year old. He has a somewhat decent fluency in German and has a few friends his age. Is it something about the particular school demands at that age? He is now in a specialized math and engineering program at school. Would that not translate to something similar in the Swiss system? I've been reading on the education forum but it isn't that clear.

At 15 he is past the age of obligatory schooling in Switzerland so there is no obligation for them to provide schooling for him.
If he has a decent level of German and is good in maths and technical stuff he may be able to get a place in a technical school and study for a CFC and maturité professionnelle ( not sure of the German terms for those) and try for uni via that route. His German almost certainly won’t be good enough for him to go directly to gymnasium here.

Christine 13.02.2020 21:02

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3148050)
It may be difficult to have an inclusion as a goal when your autistic adult child is not speaking German. ... I like your spirit, ever optimist!

Thank you!!

Actually, my autistic son does not speak at all -- he types. And his German is the best for all of us learning. He has his father's knack for languages (He speaks nine!).

And thanks for saying that about our Spirit. We have lived all over the world and now have many things pulling us towards Switzerland, and many people helping make it possible for us. We are lucky!

MusicChick 13.02.2020 21:05

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christine (Post 3148061)
Thank you!!

Actually, my autistic son does not speak at all -- he types. And his German is the best for all of us learning. He has his father's knack for languages (He speaks nine!).

And thanks for saying that about our Spirit. We have lived all over the world and now have many things pulling us towards Switzerland, and many people helping make it possible for us. We are lucky!

Good for you.

I come across people like your son, memorising all grammar rules there are in a couple of evenings! :thumbup:

Jim2007 13.02.2020 21:34

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christine (Post 3148019)
My husband is 62 so we are at an age where the transition has a lot of ramifications. He works in an international field and we are fairly sure he could find work and when he retires in 5 years we will have both US and Swiss pensions to draw on.

At 62 I would be very pessimistic about his chances of finding work... 55 seems to be the magic age. And there are plenty of well educated and experienced people on this form over 55 and struggling to find something.

Christine 13.02.2020 21:41

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
It is astounding to me, really, because I do not have this knack. When my Mother in Law was alive she spoke no English and I spoke no German so my non-speaking son would sit between the two of us and be our translator. Not a perfect system but what fun that was!

runningdeer 13.02.2020 21:43

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christine (Post 3148053)
I've been reading and trying to envision what this would mean for my 15 year old. He has a somewhat decent fluency in German and has a few friends his age. Is it something about the particular school demands at that age?.

As Belgian mum and others have said, it is a very difficult age to move here. He is past the age of mandatory schooling and past the streaming, thus if university is planned, it will be very difficult if not impossible. He would have to pass difficult tests to enter gymnasium (high school) that without perfect German, perfect French, and very good handle of the other subjects tested in german/French from Swiss secondary schooling, I'm afraid the chances are nil. Paying for international school or following trades or apprenticeship is likely scenerio. Only about 10-20% of students here, depending on region, test into the gymnasium stream and follow the university route.

I would also like to have you examine the situation for your older son here before you make the move. I also have a child with special needs and I would say the opposite to your impression of 'inclusiveness'. I find the situation in the US more accepting, providing the necessary treatments and opportunities, plus often the financial means for treatment and therapies. If your son needs any kind of therapies or treatments beyond basic healthcare, really examine this. The healthcare here does not cover disabilities nor their therapies. And invalidity insurance, the common Swiss approach to some aspects, there's a good chance he may not qualify. Some treatments may be provided by schools or cantons but he's past the age for these most likely. So if he needs any type of therapy, make sure you have large funds set aside to pay privately or clearly talk to the relevant authorities about the coverage before you decide to move.

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm but wanted to provide a true picture after been there, done that. If you don't examine the details of these things before you move, you could be in for many surprises.

Christine 13.02.2020 21:49

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Thank you. We aren't too worried about that because he can keep working remotely at his current job if he doesn't find anything locally.

MusicChick 13.02.2020 22:00

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christine (Post 3148091)
Thank you. We aren't too worried about that because he can keep working remotely at his current job if he doesn't find anything locally.

Some people had the same set up and got stranded. Which is I guess a bit easier in their 30s and not with a trailing spouse and grown kids (they cost a lot here, simple things like books, clothes, insurance policies, courses, private tutors, hobbies, sports...social life is expensive). Your family here might also treat you differently when you visit and pay them rent, staying in their place and when you might need a back up, help....etc. He will be in his element, you and kids not. I know you see it positively compared to the US somewhat fake lives there. Here it is real, but it can be very difficult reality. Not trying to discourage you, only have you think about yourself. Made the leap myself, what later proved reality was more than hard.

Christine 13.02.2020 22:01

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by runningdeer (Post 3148084)

I would also like to have you examine the situation for your older son here before you make the move. I also have a child with special needs and I would say the opposite to your impression of 'inclusiveness'. ...

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm but wanted to provide a true picture after been there, done that. If you don't examine the details of these things before you move, you could be in for many surprises.

Thank you, Runningdeer. This is precisely what I am turning to the forum for. My son is extremely healthy and very athletic so does not make use of any therapies and does not require any specialized healthcare. As I mentioned, my husband's sister has DS -- she is 65 now -- and her quality of life is far above what I see for many in our community but for the very wealthy. We have another relative (now deceased) who was very disabled and homebound. I was impressed with the level of skilled professional care she received.

I'm curious about your thoughts about disability in the US. Have you had the experience of living here? I'd be curious where, if you don't mind telling me. We live in a fairly small city -- but one with 2 universities -- and the long term situation is very depressing.

We are doing a lot of research at the moment and coordinating with family at home. My son is a Swiss citizen so I guess we just feel the obligation to find out where his opportunities for a good life will be the most optimistic.

I appreciate your thoughts very much.

Christine 13.02.2020 22:12

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3148093)
Here it is real, but it can be very difficult reality. Not trying to discourage you, only have you think about yourself. Made the leap myself, what later proved reality was more than hard.

Yes, as my husband is fond of telling me: A vacation is not real life!

These are good reminders and I appreciate it. We have lived together with our children in countries where neither of us was fluent in the language and somehow made it work. Besides, we can always leave if it doesn't work out. We are lucky to have a place to live in two countries no matter what. How lucky that we have the opportunity to try.

Guest 13.02.2020 22:13

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim2007 (Post 3148078)
At 62 I would be very pessimistic about his chances of finding work... 55 seems to be the magic age. And there are plenty of well educated and experienced people on this form over 55 and struggling to find something.


I echo Jim's thoughts. My OH works for a Swiss bank and it seems, whenever there are cutbacks, those picked tend to be in the retirement bracket 58-62 years of age (sad but true!). What is really sad, is that those chosen to receive redundancy/early retirement are quite productive (at least in OH's experience!). Meanwhile, there are many in my OH's view, who are in their 40s and Swiss and who take vacations, sick time, cigarette breaks you name it. In short, there is much dead wood but the ones asked to leave are often those who are older. My guess is they are expensive given pension contributions by the employer.

That said, I have friends here whose husbands have been retired or let go, and some have managed to carve out very successful consulting careers. I wish you success OP! It is not easy to navigate moving to a new country but at least you are doing your homework.

I hope all works out well for you and your family!:)

3Wishes 13.02.2020 22:24

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by terrifisch (Post 3148097)
...there are many in my OH's view, who are in their 40s and Swiss and who take vacations, sick time, cigarette breaks you name it. In short, there is much dead wood ...

Maybe I'm mis-reading you here. I understand about excessive breaks and faking sick leave, but surely employees are entitled to vacation and should take it so they can come back refreshed and ready to work again. There's a mentality in the States that taking vacation means you're not serious about your job, but I think that's the wrong approach. People need a break now and then. :)

Christine 13.02.2020 22:24

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by terrifisch (Post 3148097)
... those picked tend to be in the retirement bracket 58-62 years of age (sad but true!). ... I wish you success OP! It is not easy to navigate moving to a new country but at least you are doing your homework.

I hope all works out well for you and your family!:)

It really is the same all over!

My husband's current job is very, very, very secure and he can keep it until he retire's, working remotely. We were considering that a Plan B but perhaps what I'm hearing is that if he finds one locally then it may not be as secure over a five year period. That's good food for thought!

Jim2007 13.02.2020 22:34

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christine (Post 3148102)
It really is the same all over!

My husband's current job is very, very, very secure and he can keep it until he retire's, working remotely. We were considering that a Plan B but perhaps what I'm hearing is that if he finds one locally then it may not be as secure over a five year period. That's good food for thought!

With all due respect, there is a very big difference working remotely in the US versus Europe. I have know people who have thought the same, only to discover after a year or so, that there employer are not so excited about it anymore - there are a lot of extra legal requirements to deal with plus the distance...

I would suggest you run the numbers and make sure you could survive with out an income from say a year after arriving to pension age without an income and see how it works.

Christine 13.02.2020 22:49

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim2007 (Post 3148106)
With all due respect, there is a very big difference working remotely in the US versus Europe. I have know people who have thought the same, only to discover after a year or so, that there employer are not so excited about it anymore - there are a lot of extra legal requirements to deal with plus the distance...

I would suggest you run the numbers and make sure you could survive with out an income from say a year after arriving to pension age without an income and see how it works.

Ack! I appreciate you bringing this to my attention. But really, my husband's job is secure. There is zero possibility of him not being able to continue doing what he does now. Trust me on this. And we have been doing it for 3 months every year for the past 5 years so we have some experience living/working in CH. We were hoping to transition to local employment because of a job opportunity that might be available and the idea that it might be interesting for him to do something new about 26 years.

roegner 14.02.2020 06:04

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
As other have mentioned, the chances of finding a local job at 62 are very slim.

You mentioned somewhere a Swiss pension? Did your husband work here before? Because what you can pay in here for pension in the 3 years until retirement at 65 is not much and will only give you a very small pension.

Medea Fleecestealer 14.02.2020 06:55

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Welcome to the forum. :)

You haven't mentioned the financial side of things, but as US citizens there are things you need to be aware of.

First, getting a bank account here. Since the US passed it's FATCA law, Americans are persons non gratis to most banks so they will not accept you as clients. Only UBS, Credit Suisse and PostFinance are open to Americans and to open an account here you'll need to sign a W-9 form to allow the bank to send the account details on to the IRS. It won't matter that your family are also Swiss citizens, any taint of America will count against them. This may or may not also affect any plans you may have to get a mortgage here to buy property. They might be open to giving you one, then again they may say no and restrict you to just the basic salary/checking account.

As US citizens you have continuing tax filing obligations with the IRS so start your research on that here.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/tax-...ident-aliens-1

You will also have to file an FBAR form if any foreign, i.e. outside of US, account/s comes to more than $10,000 at any time of the year.

As for inclusiveness this may depend on individual circumstances, but my observations are that people with disabilities whether they be physical or otherwise are not as included in daily life as they are in other countries. Many live separately from their families in special homes where they may also have work facilities so do not mix that much with others. They are more segregated than is the case elsewhere. It's changing slowly, but you may find it not as welcoming as you expect. There is this organisation which may also be helpful to you

https://allspecialkids.org/

omtatsat 14.02.2020 07:15

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christine (Post 3148019)
Hello Everyone,

I'm Christine, a US citizen, married for 20 years to my husband who has dual US/Swiss citizenship. We are making the exciting/nerve-wracking decision to relocate to CH in the coming year. The US is not a place I recognize much anymore, honestly, but that is just part of it. We also have an autistic son who is about to turn 18 and Switzerland is, from what we can tell, a much more inclusive environment (My sister in law has Downs Syndrome). We want him to have a rich and full life and where we live in the US things are rather bleak in that regard. It is depressing, really. All of our relatives live in Switzerland. We have a flat where we can stay for cheap temporarily (and maybe longer), and my youngest son is considering possible careers/university (he's 15) and we would like him to feel able to attend school in Switzerland. All that being said, My husband is 62 so we are at an age where the transition has a lot of ramifications. He works in an international field and we are fairly sure he could find work and when he retires in 5 years we will have both US and Swiss pensions to draw on. I've been reading through the archived messages on this forum and am so thankful for all the information available!! Specifically I'd love to connect with anyone on this forum who has relocated to Switzerland from the US with a disabled dependent -- this is our biggest motivator and concern. We have been spending 3 months/year in Switzerland for the past 5 years so I feel like I have a healthy respect for the challenges but we also love it and I'm excited to make this change.

Getting work at 62 would be an uphill battle. They get rid of them here in their early 50's on the grounds of too expensive. And as far as a swiss pension goes ( assuming he finds work ) it would be very very little after 4 or 5 years work.Unless of course he has already worked here for many years. If you are financially well off then not so big a problem.

greenmount 14.02.2020 07:35

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 3148119)
As other have mentioned, the chances of finding a local job at 62 are very slim.

You mentioned somewhere a Swiss pension? Did your husband work here before? Because what you can pay in here for pension in the 3 years until retirement at 65 is not much and will only give you a very small pension.

I hope, for the sake of OP, that this is the case indeed, otherwise it would be really difficult to live here without sufficient funds.

But anyways, if the husband is Swiss it makes sense for him, not so sure if it makes that much sense for OP and her children. Especially for the 15 y.o. one, what a shock it will be. From all possibilities to very few.....hmmmm, I wouldn't do that to him. Seriously, a lot of parents overlook what it really means to uproot their children. Children adapt, true, yet one never knows if they will thank you later or deeply resent you. If I were OP, I would make sure my child and I! understand what is being asked from him, what are his options in the new education system, will he be happy with maybe going to a different path than planned etc. etc. Lots of questions to be answered when taking this decision, and each family member's interests to be taken into consideration...IMHO.

omtatsat 14.02.2020 07:38

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Why not California ( if you dont already live there ). Great climate,simple living. Does not make sense to come to the most expensive country in the world!

Guest 14.02.2020 08:47

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Wishes (Post 3148101)
Maybe I'm mis-reading you here. I understand about excessive breaks and faking sick leave, but surely employees are entitled to vacation and should take it so they can come back refreshed and ready to work again. There's a mentality in the States that taking vacation means you're not serious about your job, but I think that's the wrong approach. People need a break now and then. :)

I was referring to excessive sick leave and smoke breaks :).

meloncollie 14.02.2020 08:52

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Christine, what would your younger child's plans for further education be in the States? Is he planning on university?

As others have pointed out, he is at a difficult age to make this move. The last thing you'd want to do is to screw up his education path, with all the potential consequences that could bring.

A friend with a highly academic, university-bound child your son's age chose to have the youngster remain in the US to complete high school, living with friends, while the parents moved to Switzerland. The youngster graduated, applied to, and received offers and scholarships from, several top universities. He chose delayed admittance, and then took a gap year in Switzerland to see if he liked the country, while looking into Swiss and European universities.

If your younger child is university-bound, perhaps that might be a possibility for him?

I'll second the other caution that other posters have raised: Ageism is very much an issue in Swiss employment. At 55 one starts to feel that a target has been drawn on one's back, making it past 60 is becoming a rarity in some sectors of the corporate world these days. Add to that the general lack of employee protections, the only effective security one has here is the notice period defined in the contract, generally 3 months.

Sooo... perhaps count on your husband's distance job continuing for the foreseeable future, until the family is firmly established. And if possible, leave the door open to continuing to work for his US employers in some capacity even if he takes on Swiss work. Maybe consider consultancy or freelancing rather than a permanent Swiss role?

Wishing you and the family all the best with this move.

MusicChick 14.02.2020 08:54

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by omtatsat (Post 3148133)
Why not California ( if you dont already live there ). Great climate,simple living. Does not make sense to come to the most expensive country in the world!

To come is ok but to come and retire might be tough. Their attitude is a deal breaker, though, and I like theirs.

Island Monkey 14.02.2020 09:24

Re: Moving/Retiring to CH
 
I absolutely would not do this to your 15 year old. Can you not wait a few years until he graduates high school? Then he can go to Uni in the US, UK or Ireland etc when you have moved. But if you move him while still in high school you are utterly going to screw up all his options!

If you are desperate to move now, put him into a private American school when you get here.


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