Hi Everyone
Just got back from events after a truly horrific dog walk.
Short version: our dog (on lead) was savaged by a large dog (off lead) for several minutes. This was not rough play or dominance but a true attempt to kill that the owners could not stop.
Emergency vet worked wonders to stitch and staple together our boy...estimated this and follows up will likely be >1000CHF.
Now the request for advice: We went to the Police to report this event, but after internal discussion Police said that this is "animal on animal violence" so not their place.
Police advised we go to juge de paix to chase for the vet fees back. This is not my biggest worry. My concerns are more about how do we get something done about a dangerous dog that is not kept on lead or muzzled. Where else can we go to get at minimum a muzzle enforced before someone is killed (no exageration - learnt afterwards from people that know them and say that this is intended/trained to be protection guard dog and NEVER on lead!)?
B

Not got any practical advice and I’m sure others will be along soon to help but just wanted ask how your poor boy is. What a shock for him and for you.

Terrible story, sad to read.

Owners of animals are liable for any damage the animal causes unless they can prove that they have been diligent and the damage would also have occurred under perfect supervision. I don't have the answer to the other part of your question, but I would also have started with police and at the minimum ask them where to report. There are usually cantonal veterinarians.

I am so sorry. I hope your pup recovers as quickly as possible.

Owners like this make my blood boil.

First thing, make an official report with the cantonal Veterinäramt. From a quick look at the VD website, and bearing in mind my French is terrible, the form to make a report of an aninal on animal injury is here:

https://www.vd.ch/fileadmin/user_upl..._congénère.pdf

In addition to filling out the form, call the Veterinäramt, stress how dangerous this dog was, and how poorly the owner responded, and ask for further advice to get the police to take this seriously.

Did you get the owner's name? If so, list the owner on the report. If not, you have to describe the owner and dog as best you can.

Do you have animal health insurance? If so also call them, ask if there is a way to proceed against the owner. They have a stake in getting the owner to cough up, so they might be more helpful.

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Now, here is the part of Swiss animal law that is so disheartening: It is entirely in local hands, and subject to local attitudes and local resources, whether anything is done or not. It shouldn't be this way, but anecdotes abound about how differently various authorities respond (or don't respond). Often it depends on how much a particular officer or bureaucrat can be bothered to respond, and sometimes it depends on who the victim and offender are.

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Here is VD law dangerous dogs, taken from the Tier Im Recht summary:

https://www.tierimrecht.org/de/recht/hunderecht/waadt/


Fällt ein Hund (jeglicher Rasse) aufgrund aggressiven Verhaltens auf, kann das Tier beschlagnahmt und in einem Heim platziert oder weitervermittelt werden, oder es können Massnahmen wie Ausbildungs- oder Verhaltenskurse, Leinenpflicht, Maulkorbzwang, Gebissschutzzwang, Sterilisation bzw. Kastration, ein temporäres oder dauerhaftes Hundehalteverbot angeordnet oder ein beschränkter Kreis von Personen bestimmt werden, die mit dem Hund umgehen dürfen. Kommt es zu einem Rückfall oder liegen schwerwiegende Probleme vor, kann das Tier auf Kosten des Halters euthanasiert werden. Der Kostenentscheid gilt zudem als definitiver Rechtsöffnungstitel gegen den Halter (Art. 26 und Art. 28 LPolC/VD).

Which DeepL translates to:

If a dog (of any breed) attracts attention due to aggressive behavior, the animal can be confiscated and placed in a shelter or passed on, or measures such as training or behavioral courses, compulsory leashing, compulsory muzzling, compulsory bite protection, sterilization or castration, a temporary or permanent dog-keeping ban can be ordered, or a limited group of people can be determined who are allowed to handle the dog. If there is a relapse or if there are serious problems, the animal can be euthanized at the owner's expense. The decision on costs is also considered as a definitive title of legal injunction against the owner (Art. 26 and Art. 28 LPolC/VD).

You will want to read the VD law in the original French, Art 26 and 28, linked at the top of the Tier In Recht page.

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Do you speak French? If not, have someone who does help you contact the Veterinäramt, and after that perhaps again speak to the police. Reference the relevant VD laws as appropriate. Ask if you can make an 'Anzeige' - I don't konw the term in French - an official accusation, either against the owner if you know the name or against 'person unknown' if you don't.

The reason it is important to do so is the VD law specifically mentions dogs with a history of aggression. Establishing that history would be helpful if this idiot owners lets it happen again.

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Your veterinarian should also be able to help guide you through the process of making a report. If fact, the vet is a mandatory reporter, so should be making one anyway.

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I know this post is full of 'shoulds'. It makes me so angry that laws on the books are often not treated with the attention that they should be.

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The primary concern, of course, is your dog. I hope he recovers quickly and fully. And, I hope there are no lasting effects of this attack to deal with. If you have any concerns, please call on a behaviorist for help.

And if you already have a trainer, or belong to a dog club, call on those experts to support you both in reporting this incident and dealign wth any aftermath.

Wishing you and your pup all the very best.

ETA:

I think this is the contact information for the VD Veterinäramt, Affaires vétérinaires:

https://www.vd.ch/themes/population/...nimaux/contact

FYI, poking around the text of the VD dog law:

https://prestations.vd.ch/pub/blv-pu...a-84702e56b1ef

Art. 23
Annonce de morsure [
3
]
1 Tout détenteur dont le chien a blessé une personne ou un animal par morsure doit porter secours à cette personne ou à cet animal et annoncer l'incident au service ou au poste de police le plus proche.
2 Les annonces concernant les chiens d'intervention des organes de police, des gardes-frontière et de l'armée sont régies par une procédure spéciale fixée par le Conseil d'Etat. Cette procédure différenciera les situations selon qu'il s'agit d'une morsure survenue dans le cadre du travail d'intervention du chien ou dans le cadre privé.
Art. 24
Annonces [
3
]
1 Les vétérinaires, les médecins, les communes, les organes de la police et les éducateurs canins sont tenus d'annoncer au service les cas où un chien :
a.
a blessé ou agressé des êtres humains ou des animaux ;
b.
présente des dispositions agressives élevées ou des signes de troubles comportementaux qui sont problématiques du point de vue sécuritaire.
Art. 25
Enquête
1 Lorsqu'il a connaissance d'un cas d'agression, de morsure ou de suspicion d'agressivité, le service examine le cas et juge de l'opportunité d'une enquête. Pour la réaliser, il sollicite les autorités communales.

Which DeepL translates to:
vArt. 23
Reporting of bites [
3
]
1 Any keeper whose dog has injured a person or an animal by biting must render assistance to the person or animal and report the incident to the nearest police department or station.
2 The reporting of intervention dogs of the police, border guards and the army is governed by a special procedure determined by the State Council. This procedure will differentiate between situations where the dog has been bitten in the course of its work and those where it has been bitten in the private sphere.
Art. 24
Announcements [
3
]
1 Veterinarians, doctors, municipalities, police authorities and dog trainers are obliged to report to the department cases where a dog :
a.
has injured or attacked humans or animals ;
b.
has a high level of aggression or shows signs of behavioural problems that are problematic from a safety point of view.
Art. 25
Investigation
1 If the department is aware of a case of aggression, biting or suspected aggression, it shall examine the case and decide whether an investigation is required. In order to carry out an investigation, it shall contact the communal authorities.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

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You might reference these in discussions with local authorities.

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Again, wishing you and your pup all the best.

Thanks everyone for your best wishes and great advice.

Our guy will be OK, but right now is of course a bit "down" - maybe just doesn't understand why he got attacked when he is so friendly and passive.

On the practical front, I will go to the Cantonal Vet (my French is fine) and make sure they understand this is no 50:50 situation. Apparently the emergency vet has to send in a report too, but I assume that is more some standard form to count events etc.

I have their car number plate so hopefully they have not blocked personal details release so I can go on the website and get name/address.

So appreciate the support I am being shown here
B

Totally irrelevant if the number is blocked, the Cantonal vet will soon unlock it (clue: it is in his job title....)

No need to, the number is enough. You won't know whether the car holder is also the dog owner anyways.

Your costs should be covered by the other's 3rd party liability insurance, that's what it's for. Do you have witnesses, or pictures taken during the attack, or some other form of confirmation? To enforce his responsibility against his will if necessary?

It won't hurt to inform the vet about the others you mention, who say this is intended to be a guard dog. The outcome doesn't indicate a competent trainer who is up to the task, assuming he tried to stop the attack in the first place.

So sorry to read about this and hope your dog makes a full recovery. This must have been very traumatic for you as well. I would definitely bring this matter to the attention of the cantonal veterinary authorities. They have the responsibility to investigate and the power to take a pet away from an owner if they believe it to be necessary. Your dog's regular vet should be able to help you with reporting this incident.

I am completely fed up with dog owners who will not use a lead, even where there are signs indicating it is a requirement. I have reached a point where I tell people off when their off leash dog begins to approach. The worst owners are those with multiple dogs off leash. I have seen very few examples of successful recall. Dog walking is not nearly as pleasant as it ought to be when one has to be worried about other dogs.

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I have a dog and live in Vaud, please tell us where this happened? What sort of dogs where involved? How did it end?

Thankfully, most dog owners are responsible, but a couple of years ago, my wife was peacefully weeding our front garden when a medium sized dog came bounding up to her barking. Of course her immediate startled reaction was to run into the house.

There were two women and five dogs outside. Two dogs belonging to one woman, the other three to another. All dogs off leash running around chasing each other. We went out to remonstrate, and the women with three dogs thought it funny that my wife had run. Utterly oblivious to her responsibilities.

The other woman - who lives nearby - was a little more apologetic. Especially when we mentioned the police.

__________________
Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

Been thinking about this comment.

'Official' Schutzhund training is regulated. See Art 74, SR 455.1 (TSchV)
https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2008/416/de#art_74

This includes dogs who will be use by the military, border control, police, cantonally-recognized private security companies, as well as dogs training for Schutzhund as a competitive sport.

I don't know if or how someone training their pet as a household guard dog would fall into that, but if the dog is undergoing 'real' Schutzhund training, this should be mentioned, especially in light of the attack.

I bring this up because if the dog is involved in official Schutzhund training, the attack speaks to the need to assess suitability for the training, which is something the Veterinäramt and/or the Schutzhund training institution might be interested in.

On the other hand, if the dog is not part of an official Schutzhund training course run by accredited professionals, but rather being trained by the owner to be 'just' a guard dog around the home, then there is the question of how the dog is being trained, whether whatever the owners are doing to train their 'guard dog' is appropriate. Training that promotes aggression is forbidden.

See Art 18 and 19 of the Vaud dog law:
https://prestations.vd.ch/pub/blv-pu...a-84702e56b1ef


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That you only heard this second hand, however, means that you need to be clear that you are simply repeating what you were told by someone else, that you don't have personal knowledge. It could well be that the aggression had nothing to do with the owner's training methods, so do be a bit careful how (or if) you proceed with this.

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Just a thought, which might or might not be relevant in this case.


Again, wishing your dog all the very best.

It is not a laughing matter to be approached and startled by a dog. Recently a similar thing happened to me while trimming our front hedge. It is behind a fence set back from the road but needs to be trimmed on the roadside too. I was standing on the space between the curb and the fence, with sharp tools, when all of a sudden something knocked me. There was a dog, one of 3, all off leash.

The owner thought it was funny. Are you afraid of dogs she asked me? I replied that I was busy working, as she would have seen, and wasn't expecting a dog to approach me. And then there was the usual "he is harmless" speech. As I was using tools it could have been dangerous for the dog or me.

Then she comtinued onto the park where there is a sign which states dogs must be on a leash. The sign is only in Italian, no image, which is unfortunate for those visiting here. I told her and she ignored me.

A few days later my husband was with our dog in the park, it is part of the forest, and there she was with all her dogs off leash. Of course unless you have many hands you can't leash all your dogs in seconds. One dog approached ours. Our dog gave the "warning, back off bark" but her dog didn't walk away and the owner wasn't quick enough with the leash and recall was useless.

My husband said there was a minor altercation, our dog was fine. Not sure about hers as she went in the other direction, in a hurry. My husband told her next time we see her with the dogs off leash we will call the police. There can be a huge fine involved, as per the rules on the sign.

__________________

I was once at the bottom of a ski slope, skiing to the entry to the chair lift and an unleashed small dog came running at me. If I hadn't shifted to the left sharpish, that poor animal could have lost a paw. Skis are sharp.

To close the story, since I am one of those who always looks for closure when people ask for help/advice I must owe it in my case!

Cantonal vet informed. Our guy is making good progress. Physical scars inevitable, but hopefully nothing mental (I worry as when I was a kid we had a labrador that was attacked by a boxer, seemed to make a full recovery, and was normal 99.999% of the time...but ever after whenever he saw a boxer he became a boiling ball of rage).

Separately the owners tracked us down, apologetic etc, and confirmed their dog is now dead, by their independent decision.

@markalex - luckily not relevant now but to answer your specific questions it was a doberman looking dog, and this was by the "toblerones" in Gland.

B

What a sad ending for their pooch. I hope they are paying your pup's vet bills and never, ever get another dog.

It was the right thing to do after a vicious, unprovoked attack. The cantonal vet can ban someone from owning an animal.

Boomer, wishing your dog a full recovery.

Is there any way to confirm this? Otherwise, it looks like owners being scared of prosecution, they contact you to tell "the dog is dead", therefore you quit.

Trust, but verify.

My first thought as well.