Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Language corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 28.12.2010, 20:25
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

Actually I don't have any tips, except that one multilingual PA told me to practice all languages everyday. I don't mix the first and second language it is the third and forth. I end up thinking that what I say makes sense. So, any tips like cognitive compartmentalizing or something?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 28.12.2010, 20:30
The_Love_Doctor's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zugerberg, Zug
Posts: 3,266
Groaned at 72 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 3,697 Times in 1,745 Posts
The_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

four languages! hmmm gonna be tricky! it's difficult to just speak 2 languages perfectly, but the only tip I can give is practice, from reading, to listening to speaking and if possible writing...

the only time you confuse languages is when you improvise and want to say something in one language that is said in another when in fact it doesn't always work... actually it's best to say it in that language "par example"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 28.12.2010, 20:45
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

Quote:
View Post
four languages! hmmm gonna be tricky! it's difficult to just speak 2 languages perfectly, but the only tip I can give is practice, from reading, to listening to speaking and if possible writing...

the only time you confuse languages is when you improvise and want to say something in one language that is said in another when in fact it doesn't always work... actually it's best to say it in that language "par example"
I think that's exactly it! I don't want my expression to be moulded by the language I speak, I want my thoughts to mould the language and I guess that just doesn't work.

My language skills are not that great, but I have problems when stepping outside my area of comfort. The content of the message is hampered by the form, so I tend to give up, refuse to talk or just stick to familiar subjects and the usual culturally acceptable way of expressing them- I wonder if I am making sense here?

When speaking a different language I put that hat on and do tend to become a slightly different person. When I try to be myself in the 3rd or 4th language it I use mixed sentences- it is so frustrating.

I hate it!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 28.12.2010, 20:48
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

Rather raunchy but here's Hollie McNish with the same question- I think?

Hollie McNish seems to enjoy it- in parts!

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 28.12.2010, 21:02
The_Love_Doctor's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zugerberg, Zug
Posts: 3,266
Groaned at 72 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 3,697 Times in 1,745 Posts
The_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

Quote:
View Post
I think that's exactly it! I don't want my expression to be moulded by the language I speak, I want my thoughts to mould the language and I guess that just doesn't work.
It's a very interesting point... however the thought process and expressing thoughts are influenced greatly by the language one speaks... as you probably would have noticed when people say things and it just doesn't sound quite right, because the thought process was in a different language and when it comes out it doesn't necessarily make sense... or sometimes it just sounds odd...

Quote:
View Post
My language skills are not that great, but I have problems when stepping outside my area of comfort. The content of the message is hampered by the form, so I tend to give up, refuse to talk or just stick to familiar subjects and the usual culturally acceptable way of expressing them- I wonder if I am making sense here?
This is of course where practice comes into play, I mean your comfort zones are surrounding topics, areas of discussion where you have enough vocabulary, adequate grammatical structure, and logical thought process to express your opinion, feelings or the thought process itself. "the form" as you say is grammar if I understand you correctly, don't give up or refuse, just stick to what you know, and be clear about what you don't know, learn how to express that in your third or fourth language.

Quote:
View Post
When speaking a different language I put that hat on and do tend to become a slightly different person. When I try to be myself in the 3rd or 4th language it I use mixed sentences- it is so frustrating.
I hate it!
Again another interesting point, does the language we speak affect our personality / persona? it takes years to develop a personality in a new language because at the very beginning it tends to be quite factual stuff, you know the usual how are you, i'm fine type of thing, and this develops with time to include emotions, humour and so on...

I try to improve my second language / adopted mother tongue, english, to the most I can and generally touch up on the others...

Language is about practice and being in an environment where you are exposed to that language, like any other skill, if you don't practice it fades away and weakens...

Do you really need to speak four languages??

I would also add that trying to be just as good in all languages you speak is not very efficient, as the time spent on four languages for instance, could be spent improving and perfecting just one or two... which is better in my opinion...

Last edited by The_Love_Doctor; 28.12.2010 at 21:09. Reason: after thoughts and corrections...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 28.12.2010, 21:06
The_Love_Doctor's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zugerberg, Zug
Posts: 3,266
Groaned at 72 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 3,697 Times in 1,745 Posts
The_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

Quote:
View Post
Rather raunchy but here's Hollie McNish with the same question- I think?

Hollie McNish seems to enjoy it- in parts!

Ha very amusing... don't know who she is though
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 28.12.2010, 21:47
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 31,392
Groaned at 2,324 Times in 1,692 Posts
Thanked 38,063 Times in 17,976 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

We mix them at work all the time, all four Swiss plus English.

One of my favorite expressions is "très knapp"

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 28.12.2010, 22:03
10:30's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Basel
Posts: 472
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 509 Times in 194 Posts
10:30 has a reputation beyond repute10:30 has a reputation beyond repute10:30 has a reputation beyond repute10:30 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

Quote:
View Post
Do you really need to speak four languages??

I would also add that trying to be just as good in all languages you speak is not very efficient, as the time spent on four languages for instance, could be spent improving and perfecting just one or two... which is better in my opinion...
Some of us need to switch between lots of languages daily. There are more or less six languages which I use every week. The key point here is that I am using languages. I use them like tools - not perfect, but they get the job done. If I need to do something special with one of them, like writing a letter to an Amt, I get someone who is a native speaker to look over it for me. Bit by bit, depending on the situations I find myself in, each language is improving, but as long as I can do what I need to do in each language, I really don't care how perfect they are.

What I have real trouble with is not mixing the languages. I've been writing letters to the US lately and have run into real trouble translating words that I normally use in other languages, even when speaking English. Words that I've learned here, for example, I find difficult to come up with in English. Sometimes the word doesn't exist. Sometimes the whole concept doesn't exist. This is one reason that EF is so helpful for me; I can practice my "native" English instead of my "international" English.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank 10:30 for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 28.12.2010, 22:22
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

I like it when people mix, but when I first went to Switzerland the Swinglish annoyed me, I looked down on people who seemed to have resorted to Semi-lingualism, then of course I started doing it myself. Language is so value-laden.
I just have days when I refuse to speak anything other than English. When I came to the US from Swizerland it was vice versa. My son and daughter often get sick of speaking one language and will switch it up. I must be getting old, I only want to try to speak one language well. I worry that I am losing a lust for creativity they say that you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Some phones have a problem with Texts in languages that are written from right to left. Some people still send the texts knowing that the reader will decipher it and change the direction- just reading from left to right.

Like

I want a new job, would be sent correctly but received boj wen a tnaw I.

Weird Huh a bit like Pig Latin?

I wonder what happens with Asian languages written in characters if the resading direction gets messed up
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 28.12.2010, 22:51
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

Quote:
View Post
So, any tips like cognitive compartmentalizing or something?
The question being the 3rd and 4th language, I would say that you have reached a step in those languages where you do not experience progress anymore. As this is not a linear process, there is nothing unusual. In order to break this limit you are experiencing in those languages, you need to get an intensive go at each of them for a sensible period of time. Getting to the next level is the goal, then you can think about how you keep it up.

I relate very much to that, and I went the extreem way. I packed my things and changed country four times just for the languages. Now, I experience the same tendencies to think independently of any of my five languages but within the cognitive frame of those five languages. However, the insecurity (thus mix up when speaking) appears mostly with the ones I do not keep up with sufficiently at a given period. In other words, the more I practice a language, the less it is likely to have this language mixed up with my even stronger languages. For example: I was not mixing much dutch into my german when I was in Amsterdam, because I was experiencing dutch daily and had it very present in my mind what is dutch, what is german - because I was hearing dutch all the time and related to my german myself. Now that I do not hear dutch every day, I wonder sometimes if the expression I know is dutch or german... I just know that I know the expression, but I don't know in which language I know it. Add to that danish and my bad english and you'll have my daily life. As French and German teacher here, I have to get those two the absolute priority, but I do have to train my ear and my eye to keep the awareness of what is dutch and what is danish, otherwise, I do make short cuts in my mind.

Tip of the day: the more you practice a foreign language at C1/C2 level, the less you mix it up with your mother tongues and other C1/C2 languages.

For B level languages, the mix up is rather a question of insecurity in your language B and overcorrection (overgeneralization of rules) from language B into languages C or real mothertongue because those rules are your main focus in your conscience when speaking. That just mean that you have to take your B language at C level and then keep it up there by practice and by finding a place for them all in your life. For me, it's english and rheto-romanish at that levels, but the latter being of a different language branch than my 3rd and 4th languages, I do not have so much interference.

From the 3rd language upwards, one has to live a life that goes with it. They decide, you follow.
__________________
Es wird nichts ausgelassen, um mich hier herauszuekeln. Ein Lehrbuch. False accusations and attacks continue. There is no stopping righteous people when they are wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 29.12.2010, 00:14
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

Quote:
View Post
Now, I experience the same tendencies to think independently of any of my five languages but within the cognitive frame of those five languages. However, the insecurity (thus mix up when speaking) appears mostly with the ones I do not keep up with sufficiently at a given period. In other words, the more I practice a language, the less it is likely to have this language mixed up with my even stronger languages..

From the 3rd language upwards, one has to live a life that goes with it. They decide, you follow.
This may seem like a strange question, but do you feel like 5 different people or one? Do you prefer to operate in environments where the language is clearly demarcated or prefer environments where people mix grammar or vocabulary and speak in mixed sentences? I would imagine that Dutch would confuse me, so many words are similar to German. Most German speaking people can often get the gist of Dutch conversation, but the cultural expression (I am guessing) may give cognates a slightly different connotation. For example flesh, vlees, Fleisch. I can guess that Fleisch means Flesh if I hear it, but I would translate Fleisch as meat. I attach a different emotion reaction to the word flesh than Fleisch.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 29.12.2010, 08:39
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 13,156
Groaned at 211 Times in 188 Posts
Thanked 19,181 Times in 7,800 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

It seems initially, our brains divide languages into "mine" and "foreign". I speak French, German and English. Living in Basel, I speak German, which I'm not fluent in, far more often. My French is much more solidly embedded - I've been speaking pretty well for over 25 years, but I find now that unless I concentrate really hard, German words, and, worse, German grammar , comes to the fore, when I try to speak French. It doesn't happen the other way.

However, after the initial confusion, it settles down.

So for me, it's concentration, and practice. I'm told by my polylingual friends that after a while you can switch between languages without difficulty.

(Funny, last night I dreamt I was speaking German, and the person I was speaking to was correcting my bad grammar... )
__________________
Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 29.12.2010, 09:01
Rangatiranui's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Baden region
Posts: 2,172
Groaned at 14 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 2,454 Times in 1,080 Posts
Rangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

Todos los tiempos j'ai un problem con tres idiomas aussi.
c'est peligroso or is that pericolo?

And the more beer i have, the worse it gets
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Rangatiranui for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 29.12.2010, 09:41
Traubert's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,050
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 2,059 Times in 730 Posts
Traubert has a reputation beyond reputeTraubert has a reputation beyond reputeTraubert has a reputation beyond reputeTraubert has a reputation beyond reputeTraubert has a reputation beyond reputeTraubert has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

I have the same problem. I speak English, Afrikaans/Dutch, Swedish, German and some French.

The problem is that all of these, except for French, are Germanic. English is a little different in that it is my mother tongue. Afrikaans, Swedish and German all occupy the same mind-space language faculty. It's easier for them to become confused and begin to merge.

If the languages I spoke did not have the same root, it would be easier. This is my biggest problem. If there was a strong romance language in the mix it would occupy a different mind-space language faculty. If there was an African language in the mix, it would do so too. My brain thinks there is strength in diversity of languages, not likeness. The more Germanic languages I learn the more I invent a new language.

Right now all the words from all of my languages are buzzing around the same alphabetic hall and when I call them, they all come running.

Good luck to you all.
__________________
We are monkeys with money and guns.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Traubert for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 29.12.2010, 13:35
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

Quote:
View Post
This may seem like a strange question, but do you feel like 5 different people or one? Do you prefer to operate in environments where the language is clearly demarcated or prefer environments where people mix grammar or vocabulary and speak in mixed sentences? I would imagine that Dutch would confuse me, so many words are similar to German. Most German speaking people can often get the gist of Dutch conversation, but the cultural expression (I am guessing) may give cognates a slightly different connotation. For example flesh, vlees, Fleisch. I can guess that Fleisch means Flesh if I hear it, but I would translate Fleisch as meat. I attach a different emotion reaction to the word flesh than Fleisch.
Hard one. I don't feel like five people. No. And I am not a sixth person when I study romansh. However...

The level of language command is hugely important in this context. As a B level language speaker, the sounds of the words are more important and do influence our choice of vocabulary when speaking to a far greater extend than at C1/C2 level, where semantics is the main cause of interference. I would be tempted to use (dan.) udstyr the same way as (ger.) Ausstattung, and would have to think a second if that really is the case in the given context. But I am not tempted to say *udstattet in danish as I know the word udstyr is the most probable equivalent.

Language does not make me a different person, but I know that different languages will allow little myself to express differently as different languages will allow different forms of expressions. I wanted to ask a friend who kind of overdress often when going out, if he was ready with full gear on. The expression "full gear" is in some subcultures not neutral, so I use it on purpose. But this friend speaks French, so I said "Tu es tout empompadouré?" - the word does not exist, but a French mind will allow this creation for the fun of it, relating to La Pompadour, none explanation needed with French speakers. I would be far more factual in German as German speakers will definitely first understand the sentence literally and only look for a hidden message if there is a hint that one should do so. Words mean exactly what they mean in German, so as German speaker, I would too stick far more to the definition of words. Does that make me humourless in German? No, it just is idiotic to claim that French word games or English idiomatic references would be transferable to another language. So even if I want to be lexically creative in German, I would use German recipies for it.

Your example vlees-Fleisch-flesh is interesting as it shows that idiomatic expressions are in my mind "saved up" as semantic expressions and not by language, hence the problem sometimes. One says: in het vlees, in Fleisch und Blut, en chair et en os (in the flesh). But one does NOT use the German expression as much as in Dutch or French. The danger for me is not mixing them up as I know my vocab (*in vlees en bloed, *en chair, *im Fleisch) but to use the German wording in a case where the French and the Dutch would use it, but where we reword in differently in German (persönlich, im richtigen Leben, wie du leibst und lebst...) on different context based criteria. That is a really sneaky kind of language mix up.

And the one that fascinated me as child: In French, I have brown hair, in German, I have black hair. Even with your hair colour you have to be careful not to mix things up.
__________________
Es wird nichts ausgelassen, um mich hier herauszuekeln. Ein Lehrbuch. False accusations and attacks continue. There is no stopping righteous people when they are wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 29.12.2010, 15:28
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

I just had a mix up in my own mother tongue (awkward): Taking in German about rebellious teenies, the word rebellion came up, but not in the right language. I said "Aufrühr", stopped and looked desgusted at myself... amused friend in front of me... "hm, Auf..." I stopped again.... "Aufstand" said my listener. What else can I reply than "yes thank you".

In my head, I had: oprør - oproer in DK and NL, and something with Auf- in German came up, but out of the wrong box. Hearing it made me realize my mistake right away. There is no objective explanation why I mixed that up... I learned German far before the other two and am speaking German all the time since last week. And still.

My efforts to keep up my languages may be the explanation indirectly. As I do everything I can to keep in mind as fresh as possible the vocab and way of expressing things of different languages, I might have been victim of my brain looking for reactualization of DK/NL knowledge at the wrong time. It just means that languages are not separated in the mind but have a common base on which each of them elaborate and create specific connections. The language specific area is not subject to interference as it is a competence that I built up separately at a higher level, but the common ground may be an area of misconnection for two reasons:
- either my language competence is incomplete and I reach to my other languages to make up a word based on analogy (typical B level mix up);
- or the common ground is to be understood as a language non-specific area where lexical good as well as semantic connections exist as such with multiple links to my language vocabulary as a whole and not as a differenciated DK/NL/D/F/E area. That would also mean that analogy (and thus wrong mix) operates within this frame a fortiori because the barieres are not language specific but purely semantic-cognitive. In that sense, I did not recall an existing word when saying "*Aufrühr" but recreated a word corresponding to the meaning needed in the sentence based on the knowledge gathered in this common area. In other word, on purely lexical-semantical ground it could have been "Aufrühr" in German (like the Danes and the Dutch did), but the German decided otherwise. I should have recreate Aufstand, like the Dutch also have Opstand for the same meaning.

That would tend to indicate that one does not just recall singled out words that one has learnt, but recreate word sequences based on the inherent rules of each language one masters. In case of multilingualism, the phenomenon would be cross-idiomic and lead to possible interferences.

Just a theory.
__________________
Es wird nichts ausgelassen, um mich hier herauszuekeln. Ein Lehrbuch. False accusations and attacks continue. There is no stopping righteous people when they are wrong.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Faltrad for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 29.12.2010, 19:20
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

Quote:
View Post
I

In my head, I had: oprør - oproer in DK and NL, and something with Auf- in German came up, but out of the wrong box. Hearing it made me realize my mistake right away. There is no objective explanation why I mixed that up... I learned German far before the other two and am speaking German all the time since last week. And still.


That would tend to indicate that one does not just recall singled out words that one has learnt, but recreate word sequences based on the inherent rules of each language one masters. In case of multilingualism, the phenomenon would be cross-idiomic and lead to possible interferences.

Just a theory.


I agree it, I think that a lot depends on how old you were whenyou learned the language. I am not sure if Noam Chomsky's theory is correct, that we all have an innate sense for grammar., I feel that it is more that the society will reinforce baby sounds Like (BaBa) that they see as being correct and ignore sounds that they do not recognize (even though the sound may be a word in another language)

I am nt sure if we lose the innate ability to grasp the grammar structures of new languages or not.

I know that the brain is very plastic and adaptable, but I always thought that the first language would be the deepest and most comfortable. Now I have found, from others around me that this is not true.

For me it is all linked to personality and how you use language. From what I have seen people favour the language that they feel they can express themselves best in, that may not always be the first language.


Much of language is bound to situations. We feel more comfortable using one language in a situation and perhaps another language in another.

For instance, if the loving words you heard when little were all in say French then it may be quite strange to express love in German to your German partner. Vorsprung durch technic would spring to my mind- not very loving.

Equally languages can trap you. If the language that you use professionally and suits you best intellectually is not your childhood language spoken by your parents, then when communicating with parents you get thrown back into behaviours associated withe the childhood language.

I used to love different langauges at this moment I just think sod the arguments against linguistic extinction of certain languages. I think it would be much easier if we all spoke one language and of course that language must be English
Well if you must know I get very frustrated speaking to my mother-in- law in Farsi, because I haven't kept the language up and speaking it gives her the upper hand. The others I can handle, but not altogether on a bad day when I have a cold and am the main one responsible for cooking all the Christmas food from scratch
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 29.12.2010, 20:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

I don't think Chomsky ment a specific grammar, just the ability to make sens out of given elements heard as child that is pushed by an inner linguistic competence.

On biligualism, I can only recommend Gerard Lüdi, professor at Basel University. There are quite a few texts fom him online. In either French, German or English.

I don't think one can keep up all languages the same all the time. What one once could is never really gone either, but the less one deal with it, the deeper in sinks in the backyards of lost memories. Kind of logic. I see the allophone students at my school, they are good in the language of instruction, but how good would they be in their real mother tongue? We'll never know. And will they ever transfer their cognitive know how to other languages they know from home or elsewhere? That's a case to case situation.

It stands in my opinion, that from the 3rd language upward, it's them first and you second in life. Otherwise, one just reduce the broadness (die Breite?) of one's language command. Languages are a really tough business, to learn and to keep up. Most people underestimate how much one has to put into it. It's not a hobby if one aims at C2 level.
__________________
Es wird nichts ausgelassen, um mich hier herauszuekeln. Ein Lehrbuch. False accusations and attacks continue. There is no stopping righteous people when they are wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 29.12.2010, 20:14
KeinFranzösisch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,198
Groaned at 63 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,115 Posts
KeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

English is my native tongue but sometimes I can't even speak it anymore. I find myself pausing and trying to find the word while only Spanish or Russian words fill the void.

And the older I get, the worse it becomes.

Now I'm trying to remember my high-school German classes, and it's kind of fun in a way because random words enter my conscience and I don't know what they mean, but it's fun to (re)discover them.

Juggling languages is fun but it can be annoying.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 29.12.2010, 23:03
hoppy
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tips for not mixing languages and speaking gobbledy gook

Quote:
View Post
English is my native tongue but sometimes I can't even speak it anymore. I find myself pausing and trying to find the word while only Spanish or Russian words fill the void.

And the older I get, the worse it becomes.

Now I'm trying to remember my high-school German classes, and it's kind of fun in a way because random words enter my conscience and I don't know what they mean, but it's fun to (re)discover them.

Juggling languages is fun but it can be annoying.
Sometimes, when I wake up in the morning, a flood of foreign words come into my head. I feel that I have been using those words in dreams. I remember the context and sometimes whole discussions in that other language, so I have an idea but don't know exactly what they mean. So I try to write them down as soon as possible and find out. Ocassionaly, I memorize whole phrases, have no idea what they mean or why I memorized them. Isn't the brain strange?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
language problems




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Words that are the same in all languages gata General off-topic 61 02.03.2010 13:27
In need of learning languages To Huynh Language corner 0 09.08.2009 23:27
Languages Isambard Mews Complaints corner 89 13.02.2009 12:11
Vista Languages? krlock3 TV/internet/telephone 3 13.11.2007 16:24


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0