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  #21  
Old 17.06.2011, 14:26
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Re: höflich vs freundlich

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After all, a question that could also be resolved looking it up in Duden Synonym-Wörterbuch for the standard variant Hochdeutsch
You might use THIS link
http://www.woxikon.de/deutsch-englisch/h%C3%B6flich.php
and find results like
höflich (a) (ritterlich)


I however did not find anything for "freundlich" even if "herzlich" is close
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  #22  
Old 17.06.2011, 15:21
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Re: höflich vs freundlich

It is quite amusing to see very rude replies in a thread about shades of meaning for politeness. There do seem to be quite a few trolls in EF but I will try not to feed them.
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  #23  
Old 17.06.2011, 16:23
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Re: höflich vs freundlich

I think a lot of people have made quite some effort and you received very detailed answers -even more info than you have asked for. It's normal that at some point linguistic discussions begin when it's getting too specific. That's good isn't it?
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Old 17.06.2011, 17:02
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Re: höflich vs freundlich

I find the question interesting in regards to similarity of "freundlich" and "höflich" perceived by swiss germans. Wasn't really able though to explain. The question is of semantic nature. The look-up I suggested came out of interest. And not having access to the resource on my computer for today unfortunately.
I am surprised too that some think it is not linked at all one to another as semantic concepts. As one poster said, Freundlichkeit seen as a step towards Höflichkeit. My thoughts were similar.
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Old 17.06.2011, 17:03
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Re: höflich vs freundlich

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I think a lot of people have made quite some effort and you received very detailed answers -even more info than you have asked for. It's normal that at some point linguistic discussions begin when it's getting too specific. That's good isn't it?
Just to clear that up, best of thanks to all the polite folks.
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  #26  
Old 17.06.2011, 17:34
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Re: höflich vs freundlich

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It is quite amusing to see very rude replies in a thread about shades of meaning for politeness. There do seem to be quite a few trolls in EF but I will try not to feed them.
Strange, but I do NOT see any rude replies in this thread.
You A) should take the matter easy, and B) accept some doubts about the Swiss-German origin of your Swiss colleague. And C) ask him about his exact origin. Why ? Because words from dialect to dialect change their meanings. "Mitriite" in the Canton of Bern is being given a ride by car, while the same word in Eastern Switzerland strictly mean co-riding on a horse. "äs luftet" said by a Schaffhauser in other dialects means "äs zieht". There of course are differences between various dialects in most languages, so that this can hardly be surprising.
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Old 17.06.2011, 17:35
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Re: höflich vs freundlich

For whatever it's worth, Margaret Oertig-Davidson has posited a theory that courtesy (Höflichkeit) is somewhat foreign to some strains of Swiss thinking, simply because the Swiss by and large have seldom — if ever — spent much time in the environments where those concepts originated.

As has been mentioned somewhere above, the Hof in Höflichkeit (as well as the court in courtesy) come from cultures where upper-class nobles held court, and Swiss culture has historically been resistant to such deliberately subservient class-consciousness, at least on paper. Oertig-Davidson offers that as an explanation for what some folks interpret as rudeness, while pointing out that Swiss culture alternatively esteems Anständigkeit (decorum/propriety) as important, but conspicuously without using Höflichkeit as a synonym.
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Old 17.06.2011, 17:37
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Re: höflich vs freundlich

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I find the question interesting in regards to similarity of "freundlich" and "höflich" perceived by swiss germans. Wasn't really able though to explain. The question is of semantic nature. The look-up I suggested came out of interest. And not having access to the resource on my computer for today unfortunately.
I am surprised too that some think it is not linked at all one to another as semantic concepts. As one poster said, Freundlichkeit seen as a step towards Höflichkeit. My thoughts were similar.
I regard Freundlichkeit as something far better than just Höflichkeit. To be "höflich" means to keep up norms and "etiquette" but no friendliness. Friendliness so is a step up. When you drive into Zürich you can see the outdated slogan "Sicherheit durch Höflichkeit". Nobody however expects Freundlichkeit, what is expected is that the basic norms are respected
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Old 18.06.2011, 11:07
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Re: höflich vs freundlich

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This is also reflected in the word colleague which in English suggests a professional colleague but which in Swiss German means colleague or acquaintance.
fixed that for you in high german/germany kollege in its original meaning is work related=co-worker, clleague. freund/kumpel is used for mate. i dont get the swiss version as i dont know how they divide between co-worker and friend with the word kollääg?
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Old 18.06.2011, 12:51
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Re: höflich vs freundlich

Ah-ha-haaa!!! errm ...
You're really good at mind acrobatics.


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Perhaps it's just a Basel thing, but I've heard "Kollege" used to describe even good friends, especially when the word for "friend" and "boyfriend"/"girlfriend" are interchangeable and a distinction is required.
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Old 18.06.2011, 23:51
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Re: höflich vs freundlich

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fixed that for you in high german/germany kollege in its original meaning is work related=co-worker, clleague. freund/kumpel is used for mate. i dont get the swiss version as i dont know how they divide between co-worker and friend with the word kollääg?
A co-worker (Kolleeg) can become a friend (Fründ) but most will not. You can of course speak about a friend who is either co-worker or member of a club as a "Kolleeg" but you do not speak about a "Kolleeg" who is not (yet) a "Fründ" as a friend. The Germany German expression "Kumpel" is somewhere in between as it rather means a chap you shares things with but is not necessarily a "friend", but clearly a tiny bit more than just a "Kolleeg". If I hear a German talking about "ein Kumpel" it is what here is "än guete Kolleeg"
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