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  #21  
Old 27.06.2011, 19:03
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Re: I hate being wrong

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I agree, I am getting stubborn in my old age. English is a living language, driven by the young. They set the direction. I grew up caned to believe that an apostrophe would only ever indicate a single missing letter, and not many.
s'right innit?
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  #22  
Old 27.06.2011, 19:07
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Re: I hate being wrong

now I'm kinda interested in the topic.

Why can't "it's" replace "it has"?
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  #23  
Old 27.06.2011, 19:10
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Re: I hate being wrong

it's = it is
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  #24  
Old 27.06.2011, 19:12
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Re: I hate being wrong

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it's = it is

well that's true, but why can't it be both?
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  #25  
Old 27.06.2011, 19:13
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Re: I hate being wrong

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Please select the best word to complete the following sentence:
It ________ my brother.
Answer:is ages since I saw

to me they sound wrong but maybe in British they are correct?
Funny, but my husband whose native language is completely unrelated to English and who is incredibly fluent (even though occasionally he'll throw me a curve ball like saying plaid as 'played' and have a bizarre sort of 'whose on first' routine until we figure it out) also got this question wrong. He had instruction in the UK fashion, too.

I wonder if that might be a real trick question since, by all rights, it is a rather difficult grammatical case.
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Old 27.06.2011, 19:18
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Re: I hate being wrong

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now I'm kinda interested in the topic.

Why can't "it's" replace "it has"?
In spoken English, sure, but in my stuffy old skool ways, "it has" should never be replaced with "it's" in the written form. But, this is an age where we have texting, tweeting and a whole myriad of much greater crimes against the language so....
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Old 27.06.2011, 19:24
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Re: I hate being wrong

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In spoken English, sure, but in my stuffy old skool ways, "it has" should never be replaced with "it's" in the written form. But, this is an age where we have texting, tweeting and a whole myriad of much greater crimes against the language so....

I have heard this many times, but have yet to find a respectable source published to confirm this.

Of course in 'proper' 'old school' english, apostrophies are almost always discouraged.

But apparently Hart's Rules sees it's as a proper replacemet for both it is and it has.
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  #28  
Old 27.06.2011, 19:45
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Re: I hate being wrong

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Why can't "it's" replace "it has"?
No reason at all.

From Fowler:

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's is legitimately used as an informal short form of is (the joke's on him), has (he's got a knife), as (I'm sore's hell), does (What's he do?), and us (let's go); and (very informally) = it is (S' that bloody comet), and that's ('By car?' ''Sright.'). Each of these uses is fully treated in the OED.
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  #29  
Old 27.06.2011, 19:57
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Re: I hate being wrong

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I have heard this many times, but have yet to find a respectable source published to confirm this.

Of course in 'proper' 'old school' english, apostrophies are almost always discouraged.

But apparently Hart's Rules sees it's as a proper replacemet for both it is and it has.
Well, you'd be amused that a good 30 minutes of hilarity ensued around our house as my husband pulled out various references to prove that it is commonly accepted usage. This is part of the problem with English in that what few rules there are, they get pushed aside over time due to use and laziness. Just because it gets used it doesn't make it right, it just makes it common.
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  #30  
Old 27.06.2011, 19:58
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Re: I hate being wrong

Furthermore, regarding the erroneous notion that an apostrophe can only replace one letter:

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APOSTROPHE The contraction of a word by the use of a comma; as tho', for though. Swift
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  #31  
Old 27.06.2011, 19:58
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Re: I hate being wrong

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ok so I was testing my English (I learned American English) and came across a test here.
Is this correct ?:

Please select the best word to complete the following sentence:
You ________ better see a doctor.
Answer:had

and

Please select the best word to complete the following sentence:
It ________ my brother.
Answer:is ages since I saw

to me they sound wrong but maybe in British they are correct?
I also learned my English in the US (born, raised, and schooled), and find both to be correct.

But I'm probably from an older generation when we actually learned things at school.

Tom

P.S. Took the test, 40/40
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  #32  
Old 27.06.2011, 20:00
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Re: I hate being wrong

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Just because it gets used it doesn't make it right, it just makes it common.
I'm afraid it does, if used often enough.

If that wasn't the case, we'd all be writing in Old English.

I ain't doing that.
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  #33  
Old 27.06.2011, 20:02
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Re: I hate being wrong

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I'm afraid it does, if used often enough.

If that wasn't the case, we'd all be writing in Old English.

I ain't doing that.

No worries. We would never axe you to go back to old english
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  #34  
Old 27.06.2011, 20:21
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Re: I hate being wrong

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Any other quick tips for english studiers out there?
40 out of 40.

I went through academically selective streams in high school and university. They bash this sort of stuff into you. Pity anyone with learning disabilities such as dyslexia (my mother and sister both have this problem)...my mother on graduating from university was having lunch with an old childhood friend, a university professor, who on hearing that mum had finished university said to her 'Oh, so you're not stupid after all'...

And read to your kids...lots of good books...poetry, songs, vocabulary...and a lot of reading!

There aren't really any short cuts. We english speakers set really bad examples with our oral tradition. I'm sure my co-workers don't realise how much effort I put into speaking full sentences and using correct grammar all day, every day (I teach small children in english) ...my employer realised what a jump it was for me when she picked my dad up from the train station when he came for a holiday...and she couldn't understand a word he said!
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Old 27.06.2011, 20:27
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Re: I hate being wrong

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We english speakers set really bad examples with our oral tradition.
I disagree. There is absolutely nothing wrong with English as she is spoke in all her myriad varieties. As long as we are aware of the existence of register, and are prepared to moderate our use of language in the presence of non-native speakers, all is fine and dandy.

It would be as daft to avoid contractions (such as it's been for it has been) in spoken English as it would be foolish to include them in a letter of application for a job as a teacher of English.

Innit?
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  #36  
Old 27.06.2011, 20:42
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Re: I hate being wrong

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I disagree. There is absolutely nothing wrong with English as she is spoke in all her myriad varieties. As long as we are aware of the existence of register, and are prepared to moderate our use of language in the presence of non-native speakers, all is fine and dandy.

It would be as daft to avoid contractions (such as it's been for it has been) in spoken English as it would be foolish to include them in a letter of application for a job as a teacher of English.

Innit?

Totally agree.

I am a bit of an extremist when it comes to the english language- I believe language is just a tool of communication to convey information from your head to whoever is to listen to it. If the grammer and what-not are totally wrong, but the information was received by the other party as intended, I really don't care about the semantics of the language. Obviously in most cases, especially in other language speaking countries, this is best met through proper spelling and grammar.

That being said I would definitely make sure to have proper, respectable, gramatically sound english in a job application or anything I'm publishing.
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  #37  
Old 27.06.2011, 20:43
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Re: I hate being wrong

In any case, the alternatives were so far out in left field (which most of you non-American types will probably fail to get) that it would be hard NOT to get 40/40.

Really.

Tom
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  #38  
Old 27.06.2011, 20:47
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Re: I hate being wrong

It's true that rules are shifting, and what's acceptable now wasn't then.
Examples: transparency - 'I like my colleagues to be transparent'.
Oversight v overview. Oversee v overlook.

I hate being wrong too, and found this one really tough. It's style as opposed to grammar, but I felt several to be arguable.
http://www.economist.com/diversions/...name=stylequiz

(PS: It helps if you read the Style Guide first.)
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  #39  
Old 27.06.2011, 20:48
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Re: I hate being wrong

but you'd never know it when you met him!

heheheehehehe

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sadly I'm a born, raised and native English speaker. hehehehe
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Old 27.06.2011, 20:50
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Re: I hate being wrong

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I'm afraid it does, if used often enough.

If that wasn't the case, we'd all be writing in Old English.

I ain't doing that.
Well, but my bone of contention is that speak it however ye may, but write it properly....but apparently Oxford accepts it's for 'it has' which I will go to my grave tsk-ing at as I'll still consider it lazy slang.
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