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Old 05.09.2011, 14:57
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Schönen Tag noch

Does the "noch" in "Schönen Tag noch" translate to anything English?

I hear it quite regularly and guess it means something like "Have a good [rest of the] day", but I'd like to know for sure.
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Old 05.09.2011, 14:59
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

That's it exactly. Have a good day [from here on out at the very least.]

Generally used after about 10am.
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Old 05.09.2011, 15:12
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

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That's it exactly. Have a good day [from here on out at the very least.]

Generally used after about 10am.
It's great to find things like this on EF, really helps me in my day to day trying to speak to the locals like I know what I am saying! Cheers and 'Schönen Tag noch!'
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Old 05.09.2011, 15:16
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

You would then politely answer "Gleichfalls", or impolitely "Gliichfolls" (with the proper amount of raspiness and throatiness when pronouncing the "ch").
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Old 05.09.2011, 15:17
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

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Does the "noch" in "Schönen Tag noch" translate to anything English?
No. It's basically used as a particle (much like doch, mal, was can be used in that way).
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Old 05.09.2011, 15:23
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

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No. It's basically used as a particle (much like doch, mal, was can be used in that way).
I guess if by particle you mean "any word that sometimes requires a whole phrase to translate and whose meaning can vary depending on context"...

I would call noch an adverb. It's the forward-looking equivalent of schon (= "already").

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You would then politely answer "Gleichfalls", or impolitely "Gliichfolls" (with the proper amount of raspiness and throatiness when pronouncing the "ch").
If you're just a little bit quicker on the conversational draw you can wish them good-day first and then they have to rasp out the gliichfalls. That's what I do.

For extra integration points, wish them a "schön's Tägli" - guaranteed to raise a smile!
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Old 05.09.2011, 15:37
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

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I guess if by particle you mean "any word that sometimes requires a whole phrase to translate and whose meaning can vary depending on context"...

I would call noch an adverb. It's the forward-looking equivalent of schon (= "already").
Particle (as per Wikipedia): "In grammar, a particle is a function word that does not belong to any of the inflected grammatical word classes (such as nouns, pronouns, verbs, or articles). It is a catch-all term for a heterogeneous set of words and terms that lack a precise lexical definition. It is mostly used for words that help to encode grammatical categories (such as negation, mood or case), or fillers or discourse markers that facilitate discourse such as well, ah, anyway, etc. Particles are uninflected. In English, the infinitive marker to and the negator not are examples of words that are usually regarded as particles."

In Irish, there is the particle "go", and Swiss German has "gu/go" in connection with verbs.
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Old 05.09.2011, 15:44
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

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If you're just a little bit quicker on the conversational draw you can wish them good-day first and then they have to rasp out the gliichfalls. That's what I do.
I commend (and envy) your quick reflexes that allow you to either dodge the shower of spittle that inevitably comes your way upon hearing that response or open your umbrella in time to protect you from the incoming germs. I, unfortunately am not nimble enough and hence refrain from triggering said risky utterances in the first place.

Taciturnity is not always a character trait, but is sometimes the result of safety and hygiene concerns.
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Old 05.09.2011, 16:07
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

I think in the context mentioned above, "noch" is kind of a particle, not an adverb (whereas in sentences like, "Er ist noch grösser als ich dachte," it is an adverb, and in sentences like, "Er kann weder jodeln noch Alphorn blasen," its a conjunction). However, the meaning in the sentence quoted by the OP is about what MN wrote.
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Old 05.09.2011, 16:31
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

I've just got used to it, and rattle it off myself as necessary. But I still can't help feeling that it sounds like a question rather than a pleasantry.

"Is it still a nice day?"
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Old 05.09.2011, 20:06
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

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I think in the context mentioned above, "noch" is kind of a particle, not an adverb (whereas in sentences like, "Er ist noch grösser als ich dachte," it is an adverb, and in sentences like, "Er kann weder jodeln noch Alphorn blasen," its a conjunction). However, the meaning in the sentence quoted by the OP is about what MN wrote.
Mmm, you're right that it can be other things in other contexts, but I'm pretty sure that where its meaning is temporal, it's an adverb. If you wished someone a "gute Reise morgen", "morgen" there is an adverb, right? Or what about "noch nicht", e.g. "ich habe noch nicht gegessen"? "Nicht" is a particle but surely to goodness "noch" is a temporal adverb there.

FWIW my grandparents would use "yet" in exactly this context: "hope you have a good evening yet". Pretty sure that's just their NW Pennsylvania dialect though!
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Old 05.09.2011, 20:52
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

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Mmm, you're right that it can be other things in other contexts, but I'm pretty sure that where its meaning is temporal, it's an adverb. If you wished someone a "gute Reise morgen", "morgen" there is an adverb, right? Or what about "noch nicht", e.g. "ich habe noch nicht gegessen"? "Nicht" is a particle but surely to goodness "noch" is a temporal adverb there.

FWIW my grandparents would use "yet" in exactly this context: "hope you have a good evening yet". Pretty sure that's just their NW Pennsylvania dialect though!
In your examples, "noch" is an adverb, but in "Einen guten Tag noch" the situation isn't that clear. Questions like, "What exactly does it modify?" arise. Actually it doesn't modify anything, it just adds some temporal meaning.

Trouble is, most grammatical terms originally were introduced for Latin and Ancient Greek, highly inflected languages where the situation is pretty clear. Not so in many modern languages, even less so in English than in German (or so I think). Accordingly, in comes the particle as a generic term for all those pesky things that cannot be stowed in any of the other grammatical word classes.

What really matters is, apart from grammatical debates, your interpretation of the meaning was correct.

Northernmost Midwestern version of "Hope you have a good evening yet": "Have a nice one, eh." So be it.
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Old 19.09.2011, 21:25
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

Shoenen Tag noch , they say it when still time in that day and not soon it become evening , so it is like to say it still enough time at the day to have good time , you can not say Schonen tag noch when it is soon abend

and the same when you say Shonen abend noch , you say it at the beginning of the abend and not when it is to late
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Old 20.09.2011, 12:38
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

Indeed, 'schönen Tag noch' translates to:

Enjoy the rest of your day


More literal translations will provide less natural answers in English, so I'd suggest the above.
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Old 20.09.2011, 13:54
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

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No. It's basically used as a particle (much like doch, mal, was can be used in that way).
Correct. Swiss people (German speaking) think they sound very literate (read: educated High German) when they include a lot of nochs and jedochs etc. in their High German speeches.

Even when they speak High German, their minds (and their vocabulary AND especially their articulative equipment) are still in Swiss German mode - it tells.

Just listen to their weather reports on TV and compare them with the reports on ARD or ZDF.

The nochs and jedochs etc. can happily be omitted without changing the intended meaning. Interpreting a deeper meaning is futile.
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Old 20.09.2011, 13:59
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

Have a good one
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Old 20.09.2011, 23:51
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

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Correct. Swiss people (German speaking) think they sound very literate (read: educated High German) when they include a lot of nochs and jedochs etc. in their High German speeches.

Even when they speak High German, their minds (and their vocabulary AND especially their articulative equipment) are still in Swiss German mode - it tells.

Just listen to their weather reports on TV and compare them with the reports on ARD or ZDF.

The nochs and jedochs etc. can happily be omitted without changing the intended meaning. Interpreting a deeper meaning is futile.
IMO, not only the weather reports are different but all majors reports and shows. And the same can be said about the TV in Suisse romande and the same shows/reports on the French TV. Nevertheless I think we can't compare: Swiss German and German are 2 different languages with similar structure, oral expression/social expression is not the same here and in Germany and, what TV matters, we must not forget that the audience is also different. Same applies for radio, and between swiss-french and french medias.
As for me I enjoy this diversity and I'm happy when the swiss media don't try to copy their german or french counterparts but keep their local caracter.
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Old 21.09.2011, 01:18
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

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Does the "noch" in "Schönen Tag noch" translate to anything English?

I hear it quite regularly and guess it means something like "Have a good [rest of the] day", but I'd like to know for sure.
This " .... noch" is a Balkanese import and really nonsense. "Einen schönen Tag" or in dialect "än Schöne" is enough. And this reminds me of phone-calls to South Africa when you are greeted, in English, with "Good Day" ! The English equivalents of course are
- Enjoy the day
- Have a nice day

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It's great to find things like this on EF, really helps me in my day to day trying to speak to the locals like I know what I am saying! Cheers and 'Schönen Tag noch!'
but omit the "noch"

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IMO, not only the weather reports are different but all majors reports and shows. And the same can be said about the TV in Suisse romande and the same shows/reports on the French TV. Nevertheless I think we can't compare: Swiss German and German are 2 different languages with similar structure, oral expression/social expression is not the same here and in Germany and, what TV matters, we must not forget that the audience is also different. Same applies for radio, and between swiss-french and french medias.
As for me I enjoy this diversity and I'm happy when the swiss media don't try to copy their german or french counterparts but keep their local caracter.
A) NO, "Swiss German" is NOT a language but a group of vastly different dialects of Allemannic German --- Bavarian and Berlinerisch are more different -- Oral and social expression is not the same in Vienna or in Munich or in Cologne or in Berlin or in Hamburg
B) The various patois of the Romandie are NOT a single thing, as the Neuchâtelois and the Vaudois are geared towards the Bourgogne while the Genevois is rather geared towards the Savoie. Just as most Ticinesi dialects are very similar to dialects in the northern Lombardy, actually down to Milano.
C) what might be regarded as "Swiss German" is normal spoken language in areas like the Vorarlberg/Austria and the Lörrach area and much of the Southern Alsace (with French used as written language)

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Old 21.09.2011, 02:08
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

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This " .... noch" is a Balkanese import and really nonsense.
I don't think so. I can find "Einen schönen Tag noch" in vacation diaries written by my cousins and myself at our grandparents' home in the early 'sixties. You know that in those years there were way too few people from Yugoslavia in Switzerland to have any impact on the language, let alone such a wide-spread one.
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Old 21.09.2011, 02:35
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Re: Schönen Tag noch

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This " .... noch" is a Balkanese import and really nonsense.
I didn't realise they speak German in the Balkans.

Do you think there might be some failings of the Swiss that aren't attributable to "those Yugos"?
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And this reminds me of phone-calls to South Africa when you are greeted, in English, with "Good Day" !
South Australia, more like. And in any case, "Good day!" is an awfully British greeting, don't you know?
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