Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Language corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 09.10.2011, 23:32
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

Quote:
View Post
Wollishofener, I've had the same experience as dmay, of some Swiss people refusing to speak High German or struggling to speak it with me, probably because they actually haven't spoken it since their school days. At our parents' evening the teacher spoke in High German for my sake, as did most of the parents bar two men, who did their bit in Swiss-German despite knowing that at least one person present did not understand it because the teacher had said so at the start. Either they can't speak Hochdeutsch well/confidently, or they feel that foreigners like myself shouldn't be pandered to. In this case, given our backwoods area, I suspect both . But 2 people was ten percent of those present, and they certainly didn't seem to feel that High German was part of their national identity.
-- Some strictly refuse to speak High German just out of anti-German sentiments, some older persons however out of their old experiences. I mean I once met a chap who on a diplomatic mission in 1945 visited Plymouth and upon what he saw there decided no longer to speak a single word of High German. He, on my request and in favour of a Turk present made an exception
-- quite many have only used High German as Schriftdeutsch but not when speaking, and find it difficult to switch --- but ask them for their private correspondence or ask them about their favourite books
-- HighGerman in its spoken variant is NOT part of the national identity for many, but in its written variant SCHRIFTDEUTSCH indeed IS a basic part of the national identity --- do not forget that the Swiss Federal Constitution refers to DEUTSCHE SPRACHE but NOT to "Hoch-Deutsch". You may have seen that I generally in English use the term Standard-German and in German Standard-Deutsch as I detest the expression "Hoch-Deutsch"


Quote:
View Post
Some of the Swiss on this forum have also mentioned that they have to think before opening their mouths in High German, and I've had other Swiss people tell me that they don't feel at all comfortable with it despite doing it at school.
-
Sure, because they use Standard-Deutsch as Schrift-Deutsch and NOT as a spoken language. They may not feel comfortable having to speak it, but use it permanently in its written form Schrift-Deutsch -- simply ask them to write down a very simple statement --- YOU will read it in Standard-German, many of them will read it in Dialect nevertheless

Quote:
View Post
This absolutely makes sense to me as a linguist: being able to read and write something doesn't mean you can necessarily speak it, as I'm sure you have experienced yourself at some point in the past with English.
-
There is a difference in so far as languages like German and Italian are written phonetically to a good extent while English and French are not. And while the French at least have the courtesy to respect their own rules .........

Quote:
View Post
It's a question of passive versus active vocabulary.
-
very true indeed. The trouble with the active voca is that you always forget things. Worst for me are Arabic and Italian, where I can listen to TV and Radio but when not having been in IT/AR territories cannot utter any single statement .... horror

Quote:
View Post
Being able to read government letters and newspapers and fill in tax forms in High German you learnt at school doesn't mean it's (as good as) a first language to you. I can do all those things quite happily in German, but still don't speak with anything like the same fluency I read with. In fact, I was schooled entirely in French from age 7 (it's not my mother-tongue) and was perfectly fluent with excellent spelling - exactly like a Swiss kid being schooled in High German - but when I come to speak it now, only 7 years since I last lived in that environment, I find it's rusty. It isn't impossible, but it's not my mother-tongue, I'm not 100% fluent any more, there are many words and turns of phrase I have forgotten.
-
I not only was class-best in German in school all the years, but first heard a lot of High-German (Prussian/Sudenten) from a student who had his lodgings in our apartment when I was quite new on this planet and then was in touch with relatives who either spoke HighGerman or French or English .... and I was used to the quite many "blööde Schwaabe" in the city of my Grandmother


Quote:
View Post
The same can be true for any one of your compatriots, if they don't need to use High German regularly, and many of them don't, at least in my area which is mostly farmers. As you have said yourself, even the cantonal parliaments don't use High German (except Schaffhausen). My Swiss friend gets furious about it, she agrees with you that all Germanic Swiss should be able and willing to speak High German whenever called upon, and should not consider it a foreign language, and should not use Schwiizertütsch to exclude foreigners, but no matter how nice that would be, it really doesn't seem to be the real situation for everyone, even if it is for 80 or 90% of the locals including yourself.
-
My thanks to your friend --- much appreciated
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #42  
Old 10.10.2011, 09:59
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,235
Groaned at 2,467 Times in 1,784 Posts
Thanked 39,333 Times in 18,539 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

Quote:
View Post
Ithose are the production guys, many of whom don't even have passports - so they rarely speak High German at all.
What do passports have to do with speaking high-German? Swiss haven't needed a passport to go to Germany for decades!

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #43  
Old 10.10.2011, 10:01
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,235
Groaned at 2,467 Times in 1,784 Posts
Thanked 39,333 Times in 18,539 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

Quote:
View Post
speaking High German doesn't just "come with" being Swiss
Nor does speaking Swiss-German. My very Swiss wife speaks neither.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 10.10.2011, 12:47
Swissoconnors's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Nidwalden
Posts: 185
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 147 Times in 72 Posts
Swissoconnors has an excellent reputationSwissoconnors has an excellent reputationSwissoconnors has an excellent reputationSwissoconnors has an excellent reputation
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

Quote:
View Post
HighGerman in its spoken variant is NOT part of the national identity for many, but in its written variant SCHRIFTDEUTSCH indeed IS a basic part of the national identity --- do not forget that the Swiss Federal Constitution refers to DEUTSCHE SPRACHE but NOT to "Hoch-Deutsch". You may have seen that I generally in English use the term Standard-German and in German Standard-Deutsch as I detest the expression "Hoch-Deutsch"
Oops, sorry. I've not actually heard Standard-Deutsch as a term before, but maybe I just hadn't noticed.


Quote:
View Post
The trouble with the active voca is that you always forget things. Worst for me are Arabic and Italian, where I can listen to TV and Radio but when not having been in IT/AR territories cannot utter any single statement .... horror
I know - isn't it embarrassing! Especially when you have a proud parent or spouse standing next to you, introducing you to someone whose language you purportedly speak and you can't think what to say. Totally agree about the ease of pronunciation for German compared to English. But I think our grammar is easier.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 16.10.2011, 08:45
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Locarno
Posts: 18
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Aissylou has no particular reputation at present
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?


Sometimes the Swiss people speak with some foreigners in Swiss German, but all Swiss people know good Hoch Deutsch. They learn on the German Language in school.
Preference Swiss German on High German is the tradition remained after the Second World War. The Swiss people show that they are proud and they are not from German.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 16.10.2011, 10:17
dmay's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Stetten, Aargau
Posts: 236
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 436 Times in 122 Posts
dmay has a reputation beyond reputedmay has a reputation beyond reputedmay has a reputation beyond reputedmay has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

Quote:
View Post
Swiss German not only is NOT a language, it is a group of fairly different dialects, and a group also used in Vorarlberg, Lörrach and Haute-Alsace/Ober-Elsass. If you are "Swiss" in the German speaking majority areas, you not only have High German in school, where during lessons, dialect-speaking is NOT allowed, you have it in everything written. If "they" do not speak High German at all, they most likely simply are NOT Swiss, as High German DOES "come with being Swiss".

Back to schools. Everything starts with Swiss German in Primary Class 1, but is gradually turned over into High German. And everything is changed into High German already in the first year, and up from the first day of the 2nd Primary Class, you are not allowed to speak dialect during ALL lessons.

So, WHERE were your "production people" in school-times ?

To have it with Queen Victoria "I do not feeling amused". Your theory of Swiss German being a kind of whatever languageS, you deny Switzerland of speaking "German" and so rob Switzerland of an important part of its national identity, and this is not acceptable, sorry
Wolli,

I'm really scratching my head here now. You are seriously taking this personally, and I really have no idea why.

To answer your question: Of my production people (meaning the 60 or so that actually work on the factory for floor) the Swiss are mostly from Aargau, with a few from Solothurn. The Swiss make up about 70% of production...so call it 40 or so Swiss there? On the office side we have quite a few Germans sprinkled in, so maybe half of them are Swiss.

I'm not quite sure what I'm robbing the Swiss of - I'm just a guy on English forum. And I really don't know why you are reacting so strongly. I am only giving my experience, which I reduce down to the following points:

- Yes, the German-speaking Swiss speak High German.
- They do not speak High German with each other. They speak Swiss German, a dialect.
- The dialect very different than High German. High German must be taught in school, as it is not the language they grew up speaking, and not the one they will prefer to speak as adults.

I will warn that there is a bit of linguistic mismatch here: when you tell an American that someone speaks a different dialect, this implies a much smaller difference than the German word "Dialekt." As an American, when I encounter someone who speaks a different dialect of English, my comprehension goes from 100% down to perhaps 95%. Someone who is unfamiliar with Swiss German but speaks High German will see their comprehension fall below 50%. It's a much, much bigger difference, and, for this reason, when explaining it to other Americans, I do make the effort to try and stake out a brighter line so the they can understand the scale of the difference, rather than simply call it a dialect.

But, again, I really do not see why this is such an offensive description for you, and why you feel the need to challenge the Swiss-ness of my co-workers. Even when I meet with government officials and bankers, they ask at the start of the conversation which language to speak (Schwyzertüütsch oder Hochdeutsch). But the overwhelming preference here (meaning my locale) is to speak Swiss German unless compelled to.

So, my question to you - Why are you reacting so strongly? I'm not at all trying to offend you, just prepare an American for what he will encounter.

Last edited by dmay; 16.10.2011 at 10:18. Reason: Fixed an important missing antecedent.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank dmay for this useful post:
  #47  
Old 16.10.2011, 16:25
flow23's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,029
Groaned at 91 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,777 Times in 963 Posts
flow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

from my german perspective it is a simple 3way-misunderstanding the swiss have with us.

1.) misinterpret the meanig of "cute"
2.) feeling uncomfortable not finding the right up to date high german words=cant express myself the way a german can-> wham, bam!
3.) feeling funny for the sound of their accent while speaking high german

for no reason!

the "oh how cute/wie niedlich"-phrase isnt meant bad. because if we in german want to say something nice, express something in a cute way we add an "i" to the word. so now we have e.g. the swiss german word "kreditkärtli". its a) word never heard in high german b) a thing made sound cute we never would express in that niedlich/cute way as c) a credit card is something serious. so the swiss put an "i/li" to many words. besides they use in their swiss german accent some very old fashioned words that arent used anymore in high german or are borrowed from french or english, and translated into swiss german. for example in sports, football in high german its" das finale" as its in swiss german "der final" -> french "les final". it is hard to not think about the wrong grammar and keep in mind its their langugae, different accent, dialect. if they speak high german, they use these accent words in high german which sounds strange and/or cute. but still its not meant in a "making fun of you" way. its a surprise to us how this word sounds and "wow, thats old! heavent heard it, never before!?"

so now the swiss jump from one foot to another when they think about all the "mistakes, misunderstandings an cute moments" when they communicate with us in high german. but again: it is not meant in a bad way! i think theyll never learn that, never get their head around the fact. its maybe compareable with a scot meeting an oxford english speaking person. the melody in the accent, the rolling "rrrrrr" a scot can hardly ever lose. but he is (correct me if im wrong) more confident and gives a darn about it. hes maybe a notch proud of it.

but what i understand is the stupid feeling that when you make the effort to speak high german that youll get so many times the reply "oh how cute!" (only noobs or tourists do that as one who is living here gets very quickly the need to stop that if you want to show the swiss more respect, push the integration, understanding n stuff)

so i think the swiss could improve not thinking too much but speaking the way they do. and accept the fact that cute does not mean stupid.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank flow23 for this useful post:
  #48  
Old 16.10.2011, 17:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

Quote:
View Post
, when explaining it to other Americans, I do make the effort to try and stake out a brighter line so the they can understand the scale of the difference, rather than simply call it a dialect.
It's very wise of you to take great care defining words and just not take for granted that people with no linguistical knowledge about German will understand the way you intend it. Very wise. Thanks for that.
On the other hand, we all have to take up a desperate fight against the urban myth that dialects of a language are defined by intercomprehensibility. It never has been a linguist's definition ever. Therefore it is useful that you add "when explaining it to other Americans", because the pedagogical necessities make us bend the definitions for a noble purpose. The linguistical facts nevertheless stay the same and using metaphorical language and metonymies in order to rich the audience does not make Swiss German any less German than any other dialect south of the Benrath-Line.
I make this messag short because the rest is in my old messages in olde threads about the same topic, I hope you'll understand that this is not a message of desagreement or of undermining intention.
__________________
Es wird nichts ausgelassen, um mich hier herauszuekeln. Ein Lehrbuch. False accusations and attacks continue. There is no stopping righteous people when they are wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 16.10.2011, 19:43
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

Quote:
View Post
I'm really scratching my head here now. You are seriously taking this personally, and I really have no idea why.
-
No I am NOT taking this personally at all, but simply correct wrong statements

Quote:
View Post
To answer your question: Of my production people (meaning the 60 or so that actually work on the factory for floor) the Swiss are mostly from Aargau, with a few from Solothurn. The Swiss make up about 70% of production...so call it 40 or so Swiss there? On the office side we have quite a few Germans sprinkled in, so maybe half of them are Swiss.
-
Those folks from Aargau and Solothurn all are perfectly able to speak Standard German at any given time, but want to "press" you into speaking dialect. Just in order to make things easier, I mean from their perspectives.


Quote:
View Post
I'm not quite sure what I'm robbing the Swiss of - I'm just a guy on English forum. And I really don't know why you are reacting so strongly. I am only giving my experience, which I reduce down to the following points:
-
Robbing the Swiss of the connection with general German culture

Quote:
View Post
- Yes, the German-speaking Swiss speak High German.
- They do not speak High German with each other. They speak Swiss German, a dialect.
- The dialect very different than High German. High German must be taught in school, as it is not the language they grew up speaking, and not the one they will prefer to speak as adults.
-
> Why should they speak in Standard German ? The dialects of western Aargau and eastern Solothurn are very similar, while the dialect of south-western Solothurn is close to Northern Bernese but still "compatible" . The dialect of eastern Aargau (Baden, Wettingen, Spreitenbach etc) is practically the same as the Züritüütsch of the Limmattal
> Same situation as in most of Baden-Württemberg and Bavaria/Bayern and Vorarlberg. But again, the expression "High German" has long ago been replaced by "Schriftdeutsch"

Quote:
View Post
I will warn that there is a bit of linguistic mismatch here: when you tell an American that someone speaks a different dialect, this implies a much smaller difference than the German word "Dialekt." As an American, when I encounter someone who speaks a different dialect of English, my comprehension goes from 100% down to perhaps 95%. Someone who is unfamiliar with Swiss German but speaks High German will see their comprehension fall below 50%. It's a much, much bigger difference, and, for this reason, when explaining it to other Americans, I do make the effort to try and stake out a brighter line so the they can understand the scale of the difference, rather than simply call it a dialect.
Quote:
View Post
But, again, I really do not see why this is such an offensive description for you, and why you feel the need to challenge the Swiss-ness of my co-workers. Even when I meet with government officials and bankers, they ask at the start of the conversation which language to speak (Schwyzertüütsch oder Hochdeutsch). But the overwhelming preference here (meaning my locale) is to speak Swiss German unless compelled to.
-
> Sure, I also ask right at the beginning of certain conversations and certain phone-calls whether dialect is alright or whether Standard-Deutsch is required
> Also clear is that people prefer the local dialect.

Quote:
View Post
So, my question to you - Why are you reacting so strongly? I'm not at all trying to offend you, just prepare an American for what he will encounter.
-
I reacted clearly in order to stop wrong conclusion being drawn from a "situation" which to everybody here is quite normal
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 16.10.2011, 19:54
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

Quote:
View Post
from my german perspective it is a simple 3way-misunderstanding the swiss have with us.

1.) misinterpret the meanig of "cute"
2.) feeling uncomfortable not finding the right up to date high german words=cant express myself the way a german can-> wham, bam!
3.) feeling funny for the sound of their accent while speaking high german

for no reason!

I discussed all this at length with a German academic in London back in 1972. The lady said
A) We Germans speak High German ? Forget it ! We speak a variety of local and regional dialects
B) Everybody has an accent. You can hear the whereabouts of any German speakers from his/her accent easily
C) Most Swiss speak a High German which simply is good

I of course "learnt" Standard German in school but then on holidays in München learnt it in a real way, alright, the Münchnerisch variant. But use that variant still. Even if having been amused recently when I made phone call to somebody in Salzburg and the girl who had picked up the phone told her mother "Da ruft einer aus München an" and when I had the lady on the phone stated "nicht ganz, eher aus Zürich". I think her laughter was heard all around SZG !

In other words, more CH people should drop all their complexes about this language.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 16.10.2011, 22:47
Vasilisa's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 13 Times in 7 Posts
Vasilisa has earned some respectVasilisa has earned some respect
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

You're probably right most of the times, flow23, but it's not just being seen as "cute". I was in Germany once, in Berlin, and I was laughed at 3 times (!!) by random strangers on the street I was talking to because of my (Zurich Swiss German) accent while speaking High German

Was a little traumatized after that. Should probably work on proper Hochdeutsch.


Quote:
View Post
from my german perspective it is a simple 3way-misunderstanding the swiss have with us.

1.) misinterpret the meanig of "cute"
2.) feeling uncomfortable not finding the right up to date high german words=cant express myself the way a german can-> wham, bam!
3.) feeling funny for the sound of their accent while speaking high german

for no reason!

the "oh how cute/wie niedlich"-phrase isnt meant bad. because if we in german want to say something nice, express something in a cute way we add an "i" to the word. so now we have e.g. the swiss german word "kreditkärtli". its a) word never heard in high german b) a thing made sound cute we never would express in that niedlich/cute way as c) a credit card is something serious. so the swiss put an "i/li" to many words. besides they use in their swiss german accent some very old fashioned words that arent used anymore in high german or are borrowed from french or english, and translated into swiss german. for example in sports, football in high german its" das finale" as its in swiss german "der final" -> french "les final". it is hard to not think about the wrong grammar and keep in mind its their langugae, different accent, dialect. if they speak high german, they use these accent words in high german which sounds strange and/or cute. but still its not meant in a "making fun of you" way. its a surprise to us how this word sounds and "wow, thats old! heavent heard it, never before!?"

so now the swiss jump from one foot to another when they think about all the "mistakes, misunderstandings an cute moments" when they communicate with us in high german. but again: it is not meant in a bad way! i think theyll never learn that, never get their head around the fact. its maybe compareable with a scot meeting an oxford english speaking person. the melody in the accent, the rolling "rrrrrr" a scot can hardly ever lose. but he is (correct me if im wrong) more confident and gives a darn about it. hes maybe a notch proud of it.

but what i understand is the stupid feeling that when you make the effort to speak high german that youll get so many times the reply "oh how cute!" (only noobs or tourists do that as one who is living here gets very quickly the need to stop that if you want to show the swiss more respect, push the integration, understanding n stuff)

so i think the swiss could improve not thinking too much but speaking the way they do. and accept the fact that cute does not mean stupid.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Vasilisa for this useful post:
  #52  
Old 17.10.2011, 07:06
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

Quote:
View Post
You're probably right most of the times, flow23, but it's not just being seen as "cute". I was in Germany once, in Berlin, and I was laughed at 3 times (!!) by random strangers on the street I was talking to because of my (Zurich Swiss German) accent while speaking High German

Was a little traumatized after that. Should probably work on proper Hochdeutsch.
What they laughed about was not your accent but as I suppose your visible/hearable "concentrated effort" to speak High German correctly.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #53  
Old 17.10.2011, 23:36
Vasilisa's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 13 Times in 7 Posts
Vasilisa has earned some respectVasilisa has earned some respect
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

Quote:
View Post
What they laughed about was not your accent but as I suppose your visible/hearable "concentrated effort" to speak High German correctly.
Definitely not, since I was not doing that.
I went to school here, and plenty of my friends did just that - switch to a "perfect" high german in the last few years of the gymnasium. I kept my accent since I thought I'd just sound more ridiculous if I tried to do the concentrated/correct High German.

...my friends with the "effort-ful" High German weren't laughed at, so I guess they were pretty good at faking.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 17.10.2011, 23:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

Laughed at for speaking German with a Swiss accent. Congratulations, you just met a couple of idiots in Germany. I've heard there are some of those in every country.
If you only could hear how I pronounce english, that would cheer you up for any language you learn.

I've been laughed at in Paris for my French although I am native. I have smiled openly at the Bavarian people in German because it was awkward to recognize vaguely German but not understanding a word of what they were saying, although I am native in German too. The laugh reaction is about the almost self ironical awkwardness about the situation, not laughting at people as such. Till this day, I am not very good at understanding rural Austrian.

Not every laugh is a laugh at you. Even if it feels like it at that exact moment.
__________________
Es wird nichts ausgelassen, um mich hier herauszuekeln. Ein Lehrbuch. False accusations and attacks continue. There is no stopping righteous people when they are wrong.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Faltrad for this useful post:
  #55  
Old 18.10.2011, 02:17
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

Quote:
View Post
Definitely not, since I was not doing that.
I went to school here, and plenty of my friends did just that - switch to a "perfect" high german in the last few years of the gymnasium. I kept my accent since I thought I'd just sound more ridiculous if I tried to do the concentrated/correct High German.

...my friends with the "effort-ful" High German weren't laughed at, so I guess they were pretty good at faking.
well, difficult to know what caused the problem in your case, but I do not really believe it was the accent ....
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 24.10.2011, 10:09
Irisviel's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 12
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Irisviel has no particular reputation at present
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

most Swiss speak pretty good Hochdeutsch. tbh a lot of the times I can't even tell right away that it's not a German I'm speaking to (well - often I can from the first sentence, too).

there's an old joke about some German going on vacation to CH for the first time. he's all hyped up about Schwyzerdütsch and tries hard to understand it. so he talks for a long time to some random guy on the street and is pleasantly surprised that he understands the guy's Schwyzerdeutsch perfectly. so at the end of the conversation he says "oh I would have never thought that Schwyzerdütsch would be so easy to understand! I must have a talent for languages!" and the Swiss guy replies "um.. I've been speaking Hochdeutsch all the time."
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Irisviel for this useful post:
  #57  
Old 24.10.2011, 11:59
Captain Greybeard's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sarganserland / NW Lower Penin
Posts: 3,518
Groaned at 43 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 7,410 Times in 2,314 Posts
Captain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What About Swiss People's High German?

Quote:
View Post
there's an old joke about some German going on vacation to CH for the first time. he's all hyped up about Schwyzerdütsch and tries hard to understand it. so he talks for a long time to some random guy on the street and is pleasantly surprised that he understands the guy's Schwyzerdeutsch perfectly. so at the end of the conversation he says "oh I would have never thought that Schwyzerdütsch would be so easy to understand! I must have a talent for languages!" and the Swiss guy replies "um.. I've been speaking Hochdeutsch all the time."
Yes, there are many versions of that one. For instance, Emil Steinberger, Swiss commedian, used a Standard German version of his show when touring Germany. He was often told that people had thought Swiss German was much more difficult to understand.

Our own family version is documented in printed form. Briefly before WW I, my paternal grandma was a member of an amateur theater group in Buchs SG. The performance of one of their plays was so successful, they began touring the canton, later most of German speaking Switzerland and eventually even the southern half of Germany.

Of course, they had rehearsed a Standard German translation for the latter. After a performance in Frankfurt am Main, the Frankfurter Zeitung, predecessor of the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, reported on one of their performances, and also there, it was mentioned that the Swiss German of the Group was amazingly easily understandable. My aunt still has the clipping of that article.
__________________

"This is AMAZING! I have the exact amount of money Joe Biden has cost us playing golf in my sweatpants pocket!" — Kona Lowell

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Captain Greybeard for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What do you like about the Swiss people and Switzerland? Mado Daily life 2 27.07.2011 06:24
(German) Six verbs the Swiss regard as High German? Wednesday Language corner 17 17.05.2010 22:12
The newest language course – High-German and Swiss German combined! lotus82 Commercial 18 06.04.2010 18:00
What's the difference between High German and Standard German? Lynniec Language corner 61 04.12.2009 00:05
What's the difference between High/Standard German and Low German? eddiejc1 Language corner 1 23.11.2009 06:33


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0