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  #21  
Old 07.03.2012, 14:42
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

for those who are interested, DRS1 makes the Idiotikon available online (and searchable). I checked and didn't see the online version linked to in the stickies, so sorry if this has previously been posted. I could live here in Switzerland for the rest of my life and still barely scratch the surface of the information available in these volumes...

http://www.idiotikon.ch/Register/
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  #22  
Old 07.03.2012, 15:26
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

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So the lone ranger and his sidekick Tonto finally made it to Detroit Let me guess Tonto is on his way to Toronto
Nobody goes to Detroit. Once in Detroit, they go to Windsor.
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  #23  
Old 07.03.2012, 16:01
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

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Nobody goes to Detroit. Once in Detroit, they go to Windsor.
them's fighting words!!!

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  #24  
Old 07.03.2012, 16:33
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

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Nobody goes to Detroit. Once in Detroit, they go to Windsor.
Hey, whatchu know 'bout Windsor?

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them's fighting words!!!
Ah come on...don't tell me, that back in the days, before you became the senior citizen that you are now, you didn't go to Windsor and had a few drinks at "Houl at the Moon".
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  #25  
Old 07.03.2012, 16:41
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

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Hey, whatchu know 'bout Windsor?



Ah come on...don't tell me, that back in the days, before you became the senior citizen that you are now, you didn't go to Windsor and had a few drinks at "Houl at the Moon".
I spent every Friday and Saturday night between the ages of 19 and 21 in Windsor. and the only women you would ever meet at the bar...

...would be Americans.
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  #26  
Old 07.03.2012, 16:43
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

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From High German...

First: Learn the correspondences High-alemanic / High German
- ptk are unvoiced unaspirated, it sounds like unvoiced bdg for a northern German
- k and ck shifted to ch in all positions
- n falls in all end-positions, not changing the vowel of the ending if it is an ending, elongating the vowel if it's in the stem.
- schwa is ä-like sound but in endings where it's -i
- No bavarian diphtonguasion (modern au, only the old au is there, otherwise uu)
- elision of -e- in monosyllabic prefixes, with assimilation before occlusives
- no early high German elongation of vowels in front of voiced occlusives
- rounded or unrounded phenomena depending on region (Basel unrounded, Zürich rounded, Skt Gallen rounded with vowel splitt etc.)

Second: Learn specifically Swiss German vocab and verb conjugation from two sources
- main media, more or less Zürich urban soft version, useful as all purpose language,
- your surroundings.

Third: introduce local specialties
- make sure you know the difference between niemer, nimmer and nümmer.
- short forms for verbs after fall of nasal consonant in stem or inherited from old short forms
- the -u endings in Wallis
- the vocalization of l in Bern German
- the aspirated occlusives in Graubünden/Grischun
- the declension patterns of your region
- and what ever you pick up around you...

When that's done, you take a holiday, you'll need it. And keep practicing when you come back from the beach.
Heilige Siech!
That's a lot of stuff I don't even understand, reading it!
Quite glad, it comes naturally to me...
Really glad, I don't have to learn any version of german...
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  #27  
Old 07.03.2012, 16:50
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

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Heilige Siech!
That's a lot of stuff I don't even understand, reading it!
Quite glad, it comes naturally to me...
Really glad, I don't have to learn any version of german...
Have to refresh my swiss german
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  #28  
Old 07.03.2012, 17:15
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

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I spent every Friday and Saturday night between the ages of 19 and 21 in Windsor. and the only women you would ever meet at the bar...

...would be Americans.
Well, from conducting a field research I managed to conclude, that the ones from Ohio were definitely the easiest ones.
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  #29  
Old 07.03.2012, 17:26
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

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them's fighting words!!!


With build in
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  #30  
Old 07.03.2012, 18:56
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

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Heilige Siech!
That's a lot of stuff I don't even understand, reading it!
Quite glad, it comes naturally to me...
Really glad, I don't have to learn any version of german...
Just do the same the other way around and you'll speak High German. Spread the word.
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  #31  
Old 13.03.2012, 14:57
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

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What used to be "ZüriTüütsch" in the earlier 20th Century and was still celebrated by some "antiques" in the 1950ies and 60ies has become extinct. The Züritüütsch of today is a mix of a dozen dialects of Switzerland neighbouring areas of Austria and Germany plus a portion of Standard German.
where did you get that from? Me and my Swiss friends still speak pure bread Züritüütsch



but anyways, I am kinda curious to take a look at this pdf and see if it's of any use

and just to mention this: it is impossible to learn dialect from picking up high german first and then just adapt some "local variation".
I am born in Zurich and don't understand folks from Wallis, Uri or any other canton in the area

or let me make this example:

Cucumber
ZH-german: Gurke
BE-german: Cucumbere

Mashed Potatoes
ZH-German: Herdöpfelstock
BE-German: Gummelestunggis

sooooo..
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  #32  
Old 02.10.2012, 00:47
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

thought I would bring this thread back up for those who might be interested, I would guess my notes are now about 50-75% longer now and certainly improved (especially as to sentence structure and everyday phrases). keeping in mind, of course, that - although my wife and I study German (slowly) - my focus has been much more on trying to navigate the language spoken in and around the Zurich area.

after just about a year of pretty focused work, I suspect my Swiss German is now at about the level of a 6 or 7 year old, which means I can work my way around the basics in the office or in friendly social settings (where I have a feel for the context of the conversation), I can struggle through Wikipedia in Swiss German, I can grasp a little more than half of what is said on the local news and with some patience I can laugh at some of Mike Mueller's jokes. my syntax is still stilted and rather poor, which is probably in large part a result of the fact that I understood zero German before we moved over here, but is slowly improving and being an Ami means I get plenty of understanding from folks who have the unenviable task of trying to figure out what I'm saying.

shoot me a PM with your e-mail address and I'm happy to send it along via .pdf...
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  #33  
Old 02.10.2012, 02:06
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

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where did you get that from? Me and my Swiss friends still speak pure bread Züritüütsch



but anyways, I am kinda curious to take a look at this pdf and see if it's of any use

and just to mention this: it is impossible to learn dialect from picking up high german first and then just adapt some "local variation".
I am born in Zurich and don't understand folks from Wallis, Uri or any other canton in the area

or let me make this example:

Cucumber
ZH-german: Gurke
BE-german: Cucumbere

Mashed Potatoes
ZH-German: Herdöpfelstock
BE-German: Gummelestunggis

sooooo..
And the
ZH -- Gurke
in SH is a -- Gugummere
-
to be taken by car by somebody else in BE
is mitriiite
but
ZH/SH Putter
is
Anke in BE

And to get to your question about Alt-Züritüütsch. I never heard that old form ever again after the late 1960ies. The dialects in the ZH-Oberland are old Züri-Tüütsch but NOT what was the AltZüritüütsch of Stadtkreis I + II plus Kilchberg, Rüschlikon and Thalwil.
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  #34  
Old 02.10.2012, 10:33
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

First of all great idea and really helpful for many I am sure!

To the people claiming to speak Zuritüütsch on this thread ;-) Gurke is not called Gurke in Zurichtüütsch. It never was. It is called Guggumere. The fact that people claiming to speak Züritüütsch don't know that anymore proves Wollis point. But that is just the way it goes with languages. The English spoken today is also not the same as the one spoken 50 years ago...
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  #35  
Old 02.10.2012, 12:15
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

The good news for me is that I don't eat cucumbers, so the only time I use the word is to express frustration.

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  #36  
Old 02.10.2012, 12:34
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

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or let me make this example:

Cucumber
ZH-german: Gurke
BE-german: Cucumbere

Mashed Potatoes
ZH-German: Herdöpfelstock
BE-German: Gummelestunggis

sooooo..
Cucumere und Geummelestunggis are purely Emmentaler dialect. No self respecting Oberländer would say that. We say Gurke und Härpfelstock
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  #37  
Old 02.10.2012, 13:39
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Re: Tonto Dütsch (Swiss German)

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........ none of what is spoken at the Migros on a Saturday afternoon ................ will help me buy a 4-pack of Feldschloessli at the Coop .............
That's quite logical: What is spoken at Coop on a Saturday afternoon might help you more than what is spoken at Migros if you want to buy beer at Coop on a Saturday afternoon.

Problem solved.

Next problem: ...... your choice of beer.... oops
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