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  #21  
Old 13.07.2012, 13:50
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

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I don't agree with the theory. I think it's just a slangish way of talking like so many other bits and pieces that are often added to sentances that aren't really necessary and don't really mean much. The same as adding "you know," "know what I mean" etc - doesn't really add anything to the sentance, just a way of communicating with the other person.

I've heard Swiss people talking to people they clearly know well saying, basically, "Have a nice day, oder" I don't think any "reaffirmation" is being sought there.
I think you and the OP are both correct... the Swiss German "oder" is used in the same way as the Canadian, eh!?!
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  #22  
Old 13.07.2012, 15:28
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

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I think you and the OP are both correct... the Swiss German "oder" is used in the same way as the Canadian, eh!?!
True dat. I tend to not use long words around people who use oder too much as I'm afraid to confuse them. An intelligent oder?-user would be an oxymoron.
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  #23  
Old 13.07.2012, 15:39
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

It's a Germanic thing, but to some extend in latin languages too.

German, depending on the region:
- ne, -nä
- nich, -net
- gell, - gäl, - gäu
- oder

Danish:
- ik', - ikke
- vel (restricted to negatives)

Norwegian:
- ikk', - ikke sant

Dutch:
- hoor
- wel (restricted)

English:
- question tags, incl. innit
- hey
- right

In latin languages, Italians are world famous for adding -no in every language they speak. In Romandie, they say - ou bien ? too. One hears sometimes - hein at the end of French sentences too. I have less contact with Spanish/Portuguese, sorry.
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  #24  
Old 13.07.2012, 16:08
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

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It's a Germanic thing, but to some extend in latin languages too.

German, depending on the region:
- ne, -nä
- nich, -net
- gell, - gäl, - gäu
- oder

Danish:
- ik', - ikke
- vel (restricted to negatives)

Norwegian:
- ikk', - ikke sant

Dutch:
- hoor
- wel (restricted)

English:
- question tags, incl. innit
- hey
- right

In latin languages, Italians are world famous for adding -no in every language they speak. In Romandie, they say - ou bien ? too. One hears sometimes - hein at the end of French sentences too. I have less contact with Spanish/Portuguese, sorry.
Don't forget Japanese - desu neh?
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  #25  
Old 13.07.2012, 16:23
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

I thought it was to lessen the statement like, innit.
OR
Insecurity like the invisible ? at the end of every sentence in Australians and Californians.

Worse thing is, I've not learned German yet (A1.1 only) and I've started saying oder, oder?
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  #26  
Old 13.07.2012, 16:24
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

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Don't forget Japanese - desu neh?
In deed, there are hundreds of languages with final particle systems. The Japanese or Chinese ones are quite elaborate, I've hear Korean is a whole league in itself.
In German, the particles didn't make it into the norm of the language. But in dialects and spoken language, it's really natural and it's hard to resist. In Swizerland, it's gell/gäu or oder, but in the north of Germany it's ne/nä at the end of every sentence, or even in the middle of it.
In France, we make fun of people from south west who have the reputation of closing their sentences with "-con" (pronounced "kong"), and Marseille people for using "fan" all the time for it.
Seems like a natural part of oral communication that grammarians don't like.
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  #27  
Old 13.07.2012, 16:25
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

I've also heard a lot of Germans sticking a "ja?" at the end of a phrase.
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  #28  
Old 14.07.2012, 00:17
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bucentaure: do you speak german?
and from my perspective blogwiese
is a) funny and b) compared to some complaint threads in here smarter and less viking rude.

OP: in high german we say ne? wahr/nicht wahr? ge? gell/gelle? nu? newahr? etc etc
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  #29  
Old 14.07.2012, 04:46
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

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bucentaure: do you speak german?
...
Nu dloar.


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...
... from my perspective blogwiese
is a) funny ...
...
Hmm, so lala, ne?


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...
... and b) compared to some complaint threads in here smarter and less viking rude.
...
Yes, but you think this alone is already a real positive skill?
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  #30  
Old 14.07.2012, 08:11
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

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Your joke made me hungry . The frog says Quak in German not Quark. Quark is curd

And yes, I am a Klugscheisser as we say
Quite right, QuaRk looks like this



oder ?
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  #31  
Old 14.07.2012, 08:36
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

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It's a Germanic thing, but to some extend in latin languages too.

German, depending on the region:
- ne, -nä
- nich, -net
- gell, - gäl, - gäu
- oder

Danish:
- ik', - ikke
- vel (restricted to negatives)

Norwegian:
- ikk', - ikke sant

Dutch:
- hoor
- wel (restricted)

English:
- question tags, incl. innit
- hey
- right

In latin languages, Italians are world famous for adding -no in every language they speak. In Romandie, they say - ou bien ? too. One hears sometimes - hein at the end of French sentences too. I have less contact with Spanish/Portuguese, sorry.
English:
isn't it ? aren't they ?

French:
n'est pas ?


and here THE comments
---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhbeC...eature=related
---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwQMe7pwiVY

Last edited by Wollishofener; 14.07.2012 at 08:46.
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  #32  
Old 14.07.2012, 12:06
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

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English:
isn't it ? aren't they ?

French:
n'est pas ?
English: At school, we learnt those forms under the name of "question tags".

French: No way the same. Sorry dear, it exists but it's not in the same league at all. There is no equivalent of gell/oder/ne in French. One hears "hein" sometimes quite heavily in some people's speech but that's about it and not as auffallend as the Germanic ones, the Italian no or the Japanese particle system.
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  #33  
Old 14.07.2012, 12:14
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

Standing at the tram stop with the schoolies in the morning, it would seem the sentence-ender of choice is "...weisch?"

Not only the sentence-ender but seems to be a filler when they pause for the next word/thought.
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  #34  
Old 14.07.2012, 12:46
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

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English: At school, we learnt those forms under the name of "question tags".

French: No way the same. Sorry dear, it exists but it's not in the same league at all. There is no equivalent of gell/oder/ne in French. One hears "hein" sometimes quite heavily in some people's speech but that's about it and not as auffallend as the Germanic ones, the Italian no or the Japanese particle system.
You may be right, but on visits to Geneva (less so in Paris etc) I heard the "n'est-ce-pas" all the time, really all the time. And when Mum was in Paris, it must have been very prominent indeed, as well as when my French teachers were in Paris in the 1950ies, 60ies and early 70ies.

More interesting is to see that Swiss teachers have been in a continued WAR against --oder-- and --ääh-- for at least half a century

Quote:
Standing at the tram stop with the schoolies in the morning, it would seem the sentence-ender of choice is "...weisch?"

Not only the sentence-ender but seems to be a filler when they pause for the next word/thought.
Sure, you can use it in-between "dee hätt dänn ganz schöön täubelet, weisch" and "aber äs isch halt eifach än Tubel, weisch"
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  #35  
Old 14.07.2012, 12:52
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

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More interesting is to see that Swiss teachers have been in a continued WAR against --oder-- and --ääh-- for at least half a century
Not only Swiss. In Germany too It's considered as a dialectal bad habit, and formal speech is absolutely free from these little speech-closure-words. I can imagine a Bavarian politician making a point using the Bavarian variants, though...
In the north, the -ne are more rural, very strong in the low-German speaking communities, less in cities. Hence not cool.
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  #36  
Old 02.10.2012, 20:55
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

In noisy environments, such as large cities, the word serves as "over"
Similarly, in the us, a salesperson can be trained to say "What can I do for you - TODAY ? The "today" prevents an early voice-lowering with the last word being lost.
The Zurich "oder" does not expect confirmation
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  #37  
Old 02.10.2012, 21:26
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

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English:
isn't it ? aren't they ?
in Detroit, these would be "n'shit" or "fa real". which are of course completely useless to me in Zurich but come back within 10 meters of my exiting an airplane at Metro Airport. the best part being that they can serve as an actual question, a request for affirmation, an adjective or even an entire sentence. in fact, I have carried on entire conversations using only those 2 phrases.

just as with "oder", it's all in the context and the inflection.

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  #38  
Old 02.10.2012, 21:36
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Re: The ubiquitous Swiss "oder?" !

Aussie slang in my family would be 'yanno'...

And my 3 year old came home from kinderkrippe with 'Roggen' as the sound a frog makes...

f.rog...froggen....roggen ???
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