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Old 15.01.2014, 00:43
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Spoken and Written Swiss German

I've read about written Swiss German and spoken Swiss German in a website but I found the information a bit confusing. When do you use High German, Standard Swiss German and the Swiss dialect of your canton (talking at home, at school, writing)?
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Old 15.01.2014, 01:11
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

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I've read about written Swiss German and spoken Swiss German in a website but I found the information a bit confusing. When do you use High German, Standard Swiss German and the Swiss dialect of your canton (talking at home, at school, writing)?
Standard Swiss German does not exist
Swiss German is not really written, unless it's a very informal communication or someone making a joke, it's a spoken language.
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Old 15.01.2014, 01:36
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

Stand Swiss German doesn't exist, however Swiss High German does and differs in grammar and vocabulary than normal High German (not speaking about dialects here). Though the differences are usually minimal. The only thing I can think that comes to mind is the Swiss usage of herein, heraus etc, rather than rein, raus which is what is now taught in German books at least in the Uni Sprachschule.
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Old 15.01.2014, 02:46
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

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Standard Swiss German does not exist
I'm sorry, by 'Standard Swiss German' I meant 'Swiss Standard German', referenced here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Standard_German
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Old 15.01.2014, 05:10
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

a colleague once described the speaking rules to me this way:

1. if the person speaking to you speaks Swiss German, then you speak Swiss German.

2. if the person speaking to you speaks German, then you speak Swiss German.

3. if the person speaking to you speaks English, then it doesn't matter which variant of German you speak.

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Old 15.01.2014, 05:31
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

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I've read about written Swiss German and spoken Swiss German in a website but I found the information a bit confusing. When do you use High German, Standard Swiss German and the Swiss dialect of your canton (talking at home, at school, writing)?

You in German speaking Europe have several "levels"
> German as in the Duden (Duden Kommission includes experts from Germany, Austria and Switzerland)
> WrittenGerman/Schriftdeutsch used in all German speaking areas and using all the variations as described in the Duden
> differences ? Sure, as one tram arriving is DAS TRAM in Switzerland , and people in Switzerland walk on the TROTTOIR while people in Germany may walk on the GEHSTEIG. And people in Switzerland cycle on the VELO while people in Germany do so on their FAHRRAD, and in Swiss rail-stations you proceed to your PERRON (not related to Evita P... )
> dialects are generally NOT written except for FASNACHT/KARNEVAL and thelike
> dialects ? do not forget that most people south of the "TAUNUS LINE" (north of Frankfurt) privately use dialects which differs nicely from Standard German
>> and so do not be astonished that people in München, Augsburg, Stuttgart etc speak dialect
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Old 15.01.2014, 05:35
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

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Stand Swiss German doesn't exist, however Swiss High German does and differs in grammar and vocabulary than normal High German (not speaking about dialects here). Though the differences are usually minimal. The only thing I can think that comes to mind is the Swiss usage of herein, heraus etc, rather than rein, raus which is what is now taught in German books at least in the Uni Sprachschule.
A) The Standard German used in Switzerland does NOT, NOT AT ALL, differ in regard to GRAMMAR from the one in Germany or Austria. Additional vocabulary however of course is used, but not only in Switzerland
B) rein/raus are just abbreviated dialect forms in use in Germany and have NOTHING to do with Standard German --- and what the "Uni-Sprachschule" does is not my beer
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Old 15.01.2014, 05:38
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

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I'm sorry, by 'Standard Swiss German' I meant 'Swiss Standard German', referenced here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Standard_German

Attention please. The use of Standard German also varies quite nicely inside Germany and inside Austria. .... so that Wikipedia here is right and wrong at the same time
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Old 15.01.2014, 10:40
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

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Attention please. The use of Standard German also varies quite nicely inside Germany and inside Austria. .... so that Wikipedia here is right and wrong at the same time
IIRC, aren't there some gender differences between "Swiss German" and Hochdeutsch? The only one I can think of is "Der Ball" in Hochdeutsch and "Das Ball" in Schwiitzertütsch (At least, according to my Swiss German teacher), but I wouldn't be surprised if other differences exist.
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Old 15.01.2014, 10:52
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

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I've read about written Swiss German and spoken Swiss German in a website but I found the information a bit confusing. When do you use High German, Standard Swiss German and the Swiss dialect of your canton (talking at home, at school, writing)?
The German Swiss (Deutschschweizer) speaks either his/her dialect, or Swiss Standard German aka the Swiss variety of Standard German (mostly called Schriftdeutsch aka Hochdeutsch in Switzerland), but normally not the teutonic Standard German, with rather few, but excellent exceptions (mainly by academics, authors and professional journalists etc.).

In these situations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_S...tandard_German or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweiz...che_Verwendung (in German, more extensive explanation!)

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The Standard German used in Switzerland does NOT, NOT AT ALL, differ in regard to GRAMMAR from the one in Germany or Austria. Additional vocabulary however of course is used, but not only in Switzerland
eda: "German is a pluricentric language. In contrast with other local varieties of German, Swiss Standard German has distinctive features in all linguistic domains: not only in phonology, but also in vocabulary, syntax, morphology and orthography. These characteristics of Swiss Standard German are called helvetisms."

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvetism#Syntax

There are about 3000 helvetisms (among the 780'000 key words so far recorded in the Large Dictionary of the German Language) according Duden: http://www.duden.de/shop/nachschlage...chen-sprache-1
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Old 15.01.2014, 10:55
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

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IIRC, aren't there some gender differences between "Swiss German" and Hochdeutsch? The only one I can think of is "Der Ball" in Hochdeutsch and "Das Ball" in Schwiitzertütsch (At least, according to my Swiss German teacher), but I wouldn't be surprised if other differences exist.
Indeed, see here just to name a few: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Helvetismen (German, again more extensive list than in English wikipedia ... of course)
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Old 15.01.2014, 11:05
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

Of course there is written Swiss German. Fact is we can't agree on which version to use as "standard" in Switzerland:

Clearly the superior dialect is Züri Dütsch:

Read all about it in this NZZ publication.
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Old 15.01.2014, 11:29
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

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Indeed, see here just to name a few: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Helvetismen (German, again more extensive list than in English wikipedia ... of course)
...ironically, "Ball", in and of itself, is not in the list!
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Old 15.01.2014, 11:31
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

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...ironically, "Ball", in and of itself, is not in the list!
May be the wrong example.. according to myself, Ball is masculin both in Standard as well as (most forms of) Swiss German...
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Old 15.01.2014, 11:34
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

only a Zurcher would be stupid enough to pay 68 - to maintain that illusion...
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Old 15.01.2014, 11:42
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

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Of course there is written Swiss German. Fact is we can't agree on which version to use as "standard" in Switzerland:

Clearly the superior dialect is Züri Dütsch:

Read all about it in this NZZ publication.
Choge chabis seich. Wenn nummä wotsch, gfindsch ohni problem au Dix i andere Dialekt. Wobi aazmerke isch, dass mr die numme chan bruche wenn mr entweder Schnitzelbängg oder Mundartlieder mach will.


http://www.buch.ch/shop/bch_start_st...umpId=21453582

http://www.buch.ch/shop/bch_start_st...=1389778796807

http://www.buch.ch/shop/bch_start_st...D20815422.html

Aber vorallem sött mr uff käne Umständ s Idiotikon vergässe. Wär echt Schand und Sünd.
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Old 15.01.2014, 11:51
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

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IIRC, aren't there some gender differences between "Swiss German" and Hochdeutsch? The only one I can think of is "Der Ball" in Hochdeutsch and "Das Ball" in Schwiitzertütsch (At least, according to my Swiss German teacher), but I wouldn't be surprised if other differences exist.

Pardon-me, you are referring to the difference between Hochdeutsch und Schweizerdeutsch; Helvetisms are "only" characterising the difference between Standard German and Swiss Standard German.

Yes, there are difference between (Swiss) Standard German and the Swiss German dialects, of course. But difficult to generalise, since there is no single Swiss German (dialect). E.g. Bernese German has/had (is losing ground, because of the general leveling of Swiss German dialects thanks to much heavier usage of national/international media and much greater mobility among the different regions compared to some decades ago) particular grammatical constructions not used by other Swiss German dialects.

However, your example IMO is actually a wrong one. Der Ball has a masculine article even in (my) Swiss German: de Ball instead of 's Ball (but correct: 's auto). Perhaps children say it that way when they are learning the language, but I do not know of any neutral article for the ball. Either you didn't correctly understand your teacher ... or then I would question his knowledge
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Old 15.01.2014, 11:51
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

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May be the wrong example.. according to myself, Ball is masculin both in Standard as well as (most forms of) Swiss German...
That's odd.. My German teacher in the US was from Switzerland (Don't recall which part) and she said it was "Das"..

*shrug* But what do I know; I'm not a native speaker? I'll defer to the other Swiss speakers, especially if there's a consensus on the word..
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Old 15.01.2014, 11:54
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

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IIRC, aren't there some gender differences between "Swiss German" and Hochdeutsch? The only one I can think of is "Der Ball" in Hochdeutsch and "Das Ball" in Schwiitzertütsch (At least, according to my Swiss German teacher), but I wouldn't be surprised if other differences exist.
It is "der Ball", dä Balle, dä Bölle, dä Ball. The round object as well as the event (which is afaki in all dialects 'dä Ball'). But, the dimutive "das Bällchen", 's Balli, 's Bälleli, 's Bölleli, etc. are Neutrum.

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Old 15.01.2014, 11:56
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Re: Spoken and Written Swiss German

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However, your example IMO is actually a wrong one. Der Ball has a masculine article even in (my) Swiss German: de Ball instead of 's Ball (but correct: 's auto). Perhaps children say it that way when they are learning the language, but I do not know of any neutral article for the ball. Either you didn't correctly understand your teacher ... or then I would question his knowledge
Yeah, it's possible I misunderstood; it's been several years and many, many, MANY drinks later -- my memory is certainly not what it used to be. As mentioned, I'll defer to you all on what's correct.

Interesting side note on the dialects: I have a friend who grew up in Berne and her boyfriend's from Basel. He told me that, when he goes to see her parents, that he only understands 50-75% of what they tell him. That's just nuts. Anyone else have similar experiences in such regional variations?
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