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  #21  
Old 15.01.2015, 20:40
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Re: French Subjunctive

I love it. It gives you a whole extra dimension to express yourself. You can use it to convey the idea of something virtual - a potential or intended action.

Would that it were used more in English.
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  #22  
Old 15.01.2015, 22:40
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Re: French Subjunctive

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It seems to me that in spoken French most people don't care.
Most people like in most foreign people or most French people?

Subjonctif is perfectly usual and very much alive every day our francophone brain lives. This is basic grammar for mother tongue speakers.
For foreigners, it is not vital for communication, it just sound strange and a bit off track but the communication and understanding doesn't suffer. Second language learners still have to look into it at some point if they want to speak real French. But not as a beginner.
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  #23  
Old 15.01.2015, 23:12
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Re: French Subjunctive

Now, who can correctly identify the tense here:

que j'aurais eusse eu

Tom

P.S. in English: 'that I would have had'
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  #24  
Old 15.01.2015, 23:15
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Re: French Subjunctive

Heu - non! Perhaps if you put it in a proper sentence? (still- non!)

What about this one

Et bin - Si j'aurais su, j'aurais pas v'nu
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  #25  
Old 15.01.2015, 23:18
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Re: French Subjunctive

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Now, who can correctly identify the tense here:

que j'aurais eusse eu

Tom

P.S. in English: 'that I would have had'
It's que j'aurais eu or que j'eusse eu but not a mix of both.
It's a conditionnel passé vs subjonctif passé deuxième forme issue.
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  #26  
Old 15.01.2015, 23:20
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Re: French Subjunctive

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Heu - non! Perhaps if you put it in a proper sentence? (still- non!)

What about this one

Et bin - Si j'aurais su, j'aurais pas v'nu
Had I have known, I wouldn't have something.

Albeit with very bad grammar.

More correct would have been: Si je l'aurais su, je ne l'aurais pas something

Tom
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  #27  
Old 15.01.2015, 23:21
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Re: French Subjunctive

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More correct would have been: Si je l'aurais su, je ne l'aurais pas something
Even more correct would be: Si j'avais su, je ne serais pas venu (venue if je is feminin).
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  #28  
Old 15.01.2015, 23:22
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Re: French Subjunctive

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It's que j'aurais eu or que j'eusse eu but not a mix of both.
It's a conditionnel passé vs subjonctif passé deuxième forme issue.
OK, it's been a while.

But you get my point.

And, at least I was close!

Tom
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  #29  
Old 15.01.2015, 23:29
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Re: French Subjunctive

It's a case where I feel empathy for you, st2lemans, because Italian and French rules on subjunctive and use of conditional are not exactly the same. It's almost impossible to master this level of subtleties in both languages. The stronger language influence the other one. I've discovered the same subtle issues with romansh.
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  #30  
Old 15.01.2015, 23:29
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Re: French Subjunctive

A famous quote, and rural misuse- from the classic book (1912) and film 'La Guerre des Boutons' (1962). Still used a lot bY my generation as a joke.

If I had known, I wouldn't have come.
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  #31  
Old 15.01.2015, 23:35
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Re: French Subjunctive

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A famous quote, and rural misuse- from the classic book (1912) and film 'La Guerre des Boutons' (1962).
Haven't seen the film, but loved the book.

Tom
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  #32  
Old 15.01.2015, 23:37
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Re: French Subjunctive

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Haven't seen the film, but loved the book.

Tom
The sentence is not in the book, it's a witty invention of the film makers.
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  #33  
Old 16.01.2015, 03:59
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Re: French Subjunctive

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Even more correct would be: Si j'avais su, je ne serais pas venu (venue if je is feminin).
The only one so far that is grammatically correct. Plus-que-parfait in the conditional clause requires conditionnel passé in the resulting clause, i.e. Hier, s'il avait fait beau, j'aurais skié. Yesterday, if it had been nice out, I would've skied.
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  #34  
Old 16.01.2015, 10:45
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Re: French Subjunctive

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I love it. It gives you a whole extra dimension to express yourself. You can use it to convey the idea of something virtual - a potential or intended action.

Would that it were used more in English.
This why some suggest that French be a language for philosophers but English the talk of shopkeeper's.

(note use of both subjunctive and grocer's apostrophe)
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  #35  
Old 16.01.2015, 18:13
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Re: French Subjunctive

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The only one so far that is grammatically correct. Plus-que-parfait in the conditional clause requires conditionnel passé in the resulting clause, i.e. Hier, s'il avait fait beau, j'aurais skié. Yesterday, if it had been nice out, I would've skied.
Also correct in a highly literary style:

"Si j'eusse su, je ne fusse pas venu/venue"

"S'il eût fait beau hier, j'eusse skié".
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  #36  
Old 17.01.2015, 07:38
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Re: French Subjunctive

I'm just waiting for the patois..
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