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Old 30.01.2019, 21:59
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Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

Hello! I have been reading that there are several dialects of Romansh. I have also read that Romansh used to be the primary language used in Einsiedeln (several centuries ago). Could anyone please tell me which dialect of Romansh was used in Einsiedeln and if there is an on-line tutorial site to learn it? Thank you in advance for your kindness in taking the time to help answer my questions!
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Old 30.01.2019, 22:15
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

I don't know about in Einsiedeln, but this is a good resource for Romansh.

https://www.omniglot.com/writing/romansh.htm
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Old 30.01.2019, 22:17
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

Thank you very much for that reference! I will check it out! :-)
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Old 30.01.2019, 22:49
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

You've probably already have seen this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romansh_language which goes into the history of the dialect.

Anyway, I am very curious to know what the basis of your interest is. Of course much of Switzerland was under Roman occupation until around 5 A.D. so it almost certainly correct that a Roman language/dialect would have been spoken in Einsiedeln at some time in the distant past. However, attempting to find an online tutorial for an area-specific and centuries old dialect of Romansch is unlikely to be very successful. Are you intending to learn ancient Einsiedeln-Romansch ?
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Old 31.01.2019, 08:05
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

They didn't speak Rumantsch in Einsiedeln, just in the Grisons.

Tom
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Old 31.01.2019, 08:12
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

every time I hear about Romansh I think its Romanian
wonder if they have similarities...
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Old 31.01.2019, 08:18
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

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every time I hear about Romansh I think its Romanian
wonder if they have similarities...
They do, both being Romance (Latin based) languages. But they're not the same. :-)

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They didn't speak Rumantsch in Einsiedeln, just in the Grisons.

Tom
They spoke Romansch in a much larger area than today but it I agree with other poster above - it would be a very old dialect and kind of difficult to get online resources. If OP wants to know more maybe he should address these questions nicely and humbly to the rector of Einsiedeln Gymnasium which is one of the best places to study classic and modern languages. He might get some clarifications and some hints in regards with his interest in Romansch and its dialects.

Last edited by greenmount; 31.01.2019 at 08:47.
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Old 31.01.2019, 08:43
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

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They spoke Romansch in a much larger area than today.
But only within the Grisons.

Einsiedeln is on the wrong side of the Alps.

Tom

P.S. I actually studied Rumantsch.
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Old 31.01.2019, 09:04
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

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But only within the Grisons.

Einsiedeln is on the wrong side of the Alps.

Tom

P.S. I actually studied Rumantsch.
Check out the map in the Wikipedia link from me.anon - hundreds of years ago it used to be spoken up to Bodensee. I know for certain my area (St Gallen Rheintal) was Romansh speaking until the 13th/14th century - you can still see the evidence today in some place names. It also shows Einsiedeln was just (only just) in the Romansh area up to 700 - 1100 CE.

Oh and wrong side of the alps? Many Romansh speaking areas today are on the north side. Surselva and Oberhalbstein anyway.

Edit - on Einsiedeln an interesting link here to something called the Einsiedeln Homily, apparently one of the earliest written Romansh records.
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Old 31.01.2019, 09:05
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

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But only within the Grisons.

Einsiedeln is on the wrong side of the Alps.

Tom

P.S. I actually studied Rumantsch.
I cannot find any reference that romansh has once been spoken in Einsiedeln. The closes info I cam was this:



So during the earlies middle age, Bündnerromanisch was spoken outside Graubünden
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Old 31.01.2019, 10:15
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

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Check out the map in the Wikipedia link from me.anon - hundreds of years ago it used to be spoken up to Bodensee. I know for certain my area (St Gallen Rheintal) was Romansh speaking until the 13th/14th century - you can still see the evidence today in some place names. It also shows Einsiedeln was just (only just) in the Romansh area up to 700 - 1100 CE.
Languages change over time. This is why the Latin language developed from a more or less monolithic language (albeit with dialects) into a broad range of Romace languages in the 1500 years or so since the fall of the Roman Empire. And these languages are only mutually understandable to a limited degree. So say a Galician speaker today may have trouble understanding a Romanian, or somebody from the North of France may not understand much of what a Sicilian is saying.

So if we are talking about the Romansh of 1000 years ago, it is probably quite different to that of today, and thuis the question of which of the present dialects was spoken in any particular place back then doesn't really make sense.
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Old 31.01.2019, 10:51
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

Just incase there are still any questions about the extent of the Roman occupation of Switzerland, this should clear them up:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switze..._the_Roman_era

There is, incidentally, a well preserved Amphitheatre in Avenches (30 KM west of Bern)



Last edited by me.anon; 31.01.2019 at 10:53. Reason: added picture
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Old 31.01.2019, 11:16
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

Schwyz german has zero Romansh in it
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Old 31.01.2019, 11:20
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

I was just pondering when Paracelsus (Theophrastus Bombast von Hohenheim) lived and in what language(s) he wrote.

Answers: 1493-1541, German and Latin.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracelsus

The Swiss Historic Lexicon mentions Wallensee and Glarnerland as the most Northwestern reaches. This matches the map by Th3Alchemist.
http://www.hls-dhs-dss.ch/textes/d/D24594.php

As greenmount suggest. Get in contact with the Einsiedeln Monastery Gymnasium http://stiftsschule-einsiedeln.ch/pa...n-kontakte.php
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Old 31.01.2019, 11:28
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

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If OP wants to know more maybe he should address these questions nicely and humbly to the rector of Einsiedeln Gymnasium which is one of the best places to study classic and modern languages. He might get some clarifications and some hints in regards with his interest in Romansch and its dialects.
Kloster Einsiedeln (the above Stiftsgymnasium is connected to the monastery) is a good source for all sorts of information about the history of the area.

In addition to the Gymnasium, you might also try contacting the Kloster librarian, contact details here:
https://www.kloster-einsiedeln.ch/?id=154

---

You could also contact the Forum Schweizer Geschichte Schwyz, a historical museum:
https://www.nationalmuseum.ch/d/schwyz

---
On a somewhat tangential and definitely lighter note:

Out of curiosity I googled Einsiedler Vereine, because - well, in Switzerland there is a Verein for everything. Sure enough, there is a group who are into medieval life in Einsiedeln:
https://www.corvorumanima.ch/clubdesk/www?p=100100

However, as their 'who we are' page says, "Wir wollen Spass haben am Mittelalterleben, ohne Anspruch auf Authentizität und starre Regeln."

So... the club isn't a historical resource. Likely more of a 'Ye Olde...' sort of group. But if your interest is more casual than academic, perhaps worth writing to nonetheless, as someone involved might be able to point you in other directions. (Probably best to assume you should write in German.)



Good luck with your quest.
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Old 31.01.2019, 11:42
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

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On a somewhat tangential and definitely lighter note:

Out of curiosity I googled Einsiedler Vereine, because - well, in Switzerland there is a Verein for everything. Sure enough, there is a group who are into medieval life in Einsiedeln:
https://www.corvorumanima.ch/clubdesk/www?p=100100

However, as their 'who we are' page says, "Wir wollen Spass haben am Mittelalterleben, ohne Anspruch auf Authentizität und starre Regeln."

So... the club isn't a historical resource. Likely more of a 'Ye Olde...' sort of group. But if your interest is more casual than academic, perhaps worth writing to nonetheless, as someone involved might be able to point you in other directions. (Probably best to assume you should write in German.)



Good luck with your quest.
It's actually a great idea too. In this type of local clubs there's (almost) always someone whose interests in history of the place are a bit deeper than your average member's.
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Old 31.01.2019, 18:51
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

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Just incase there are still any questions about the extent of the Roman occupation of Switzerland, this should clear them up:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switze..._the_Roman_era

There is, incidentally, a well preserved Amphitheatre in Avenches (30 KM west of Bern)


Not sure if the question is about the extent of the roman occupation but if Romansch was spoken in the area in question.

I'm not sure it was. The OP may be confusing Romansch with Rhaetian.
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Old 31.01.2019, 20:26
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

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every time I hear about Romansh I think its Romanian
wonder if they have similarities...

Heard it's more like Portuguese.
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Old 31.01.2019, 22:42
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

Rumantsch in Einsiedeln - not very lately, maybe in the very remote past.

This is the place the Irish monks brought Christianity to early on, and there is the black madonna in the monastery church, also adored by Swiss Tamils today, very intersting place indeed, also local beers and pastry (Schafböck/ rams). On that high plain nastily cold in winter it's the dialect of the canton of Schwyz (different meaning from Schwiiz or Schweiz, comprende amigo?).
For a sound / video sample, do google: Stinkä mues äs ächli/Fondue/Wätterschmökker...
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Old 31.01.2019, 22:48
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Re: Romansh dialect used in Einsiedeln

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Heard it's more like Portuguese.
Actually, I was once in Paris and some people were speaking something that to me sounded like Rumantsch. I asked, and it was in fact Portuguese!

Tom
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